I would say if your going to build, say a separate room for storing this in , why not just add a humidifier to the room and set it at what ever you want, they will automatically adjust and maintain things, they may require water be on site to run them though?
Building / Shop advice
- Thread starter dfattack
- Start date
That is what i would do. Your typical shop, pole barn or shed is tough to regulate the humidity, unless it was built like you would a house with foundation, heated floor..... and so on. New houses are tough to get the humidity down, especially in the summer months, and in my experience at 60% humidity you will have to be carefull about mold growth. I think Some of the lumber we are getting comes to us with mold on it and it really grows if you don't keep a eye on it.
dfattack
Well-known member
I was planning on running a humidifier but I don't know how the temp/humidity relationship could cause mold from condensation in the walls. From what I've read mold isn't an issue at this temperature and humidity combination. I was referencing this chart I found online. not sure how this effects the interior wall framing or if I should install a vapor barrier.
favoritos
Well-known member
That is an interesting situation with the boat. Wood does change dimension when it changes humidity.
It makes a bit of sense to keep the wood in a higher humidity environment. I have to admit that 60% is surprisingly high. You are getting into cigar storage range. Do the seams split because of the wood changing dimension or the finish not being able to shrink/expand?
Condensation happens where the temp variation hits. For a normal building at living temps you would see condensation where warm meets cold at 60%. With temps in the 45-50 range, you may be right on the edge. The idea of building a humidor within a garage is doable. You are also benefiting from having less temp variable between the two rooms. Another trick to help is airflow. It does not take much movement, but it should be consistent. A small oscillating fan can make a big difference.
I keep one of those cheap humidity monitors in each of my conditioned buildings. I have a thing about keeping condensation away. It is the death of a structure IMHO when it's not managed. I often move the monitors around the room when the big seasonal swings happen. Those dead air spots take much longer to transition. Oversized heating systems can also create issues. The stat gets satisfied before the air really moves.
BTW, I am a big fan of the door suggestion @kip noted. If you are building a nice building, finish it with good doors. There is an incredible difference in insulation value and sealing systems between doors. Good doors will help with comfort, heating, and reduce temp variations.
It makes a bit of sense to keep the wood in a higher humidity environment. I have to admit that 60% is surprisingly high. You are getting into cigar storage range. Do the seams split because of the wood changing dimension or the finish not being able to shrink/expand?
Condensation happens where the temp variation hits. For a normal building at living temps you would see condensation where warm meets cold at 60%. With temps in the 45-50 range, you may be right on the edge. The idea of building a humidor within a garage is doable. You are also benefiting from having less temp variable between the two rooms. Another trick to help is airflow. It does not take much movement, but it should be consistent. A small oscillating fan can make a big difference.
I keep one of those cheap humidity monitors in each of my conditioned buildings. I have a thing about keeping condensation away. It is the death of a structure IMHO when it's not managed. I often move the monitors around the room when the big seasonal swings happen. Those dead air spots take much longer to transition. Oversized heating systems can also create issues. The stat gets satisfied before the air really moves.
BTW, I am a big fan of the door suggestion @kip noted. If you are building a nice building, finish it with good doors. There is an incredible difference in insulation value and sealing systems between doors. Good doors will help with comfort, heating, and reduce temp variations.
I would definitely use a vapor barrier if you do build a separate room, as the main goal will be to have the room sealed well, , to allow things to have the best chance at staying a certain temp, humidity
I worked in a clean room(15+yrs) that was both temp and humidity controlled to never change temp by mroe than 2 degree's, not to mention had to be almost 100% dust free too!
to do so, we had to have a separate entrance before entering the main room, the walls were some sort of Plastic PVC type material,and all seams were sealed that or some walls were complete solid glass, (12ft+tall and in I think 6 or maybe even 8 ft wide sheets been a long time since had that job) and had exhaust and AC/heat ducts in ceiling!, concrete floor coating with some anti slip coating, once things were up and running, things stayed the same temp pretty darn close,
but when ever you opened a door to get in, even with the second entrance way deal, there was huge vacuum like air movement , it came and went fast though!
Now I am sure you don;t need things that extreme, just giving you an example of what I experienced! and some idea's maybe!
and I 100% agree a ton of timber you get from stores anymore already has mold on it, and just cause you don;t see , doesn;t mean its not there, mold is on many things long before it turns green or black/white1
if I was going to build a temp controlled room, I think I would pre treat all things before sealing them up!, they sell spray solutions you can treat things, not super cheap , nor super costly, just would add a layer of less concern for me!
now another thought for you, to maybe consider
have you thought about building a covered like car port<
you can maybe pour a concrete perimeter around it, add some thinner wire mesh , or even perforated metal sheets into concrete and as walls to keep mice out,, just get things with holes small enough to prevent them from fitting! if you go with perforated metal sheets, be them aluminum or steel, you can always paint them to make it more enjoyable on the eye's!
fill center of pad in with gravel inside the fenced in section, if you follow,
add a good sealed garage door to one end, and then you would have it outside to get good air flow, yet still have a critter proof set up,
if you build it wide enough and with enough over hang on sides, it will keep pretty much all snow and rain out!
yet again allow you all the free flowing air and just be stuck with what ever humidity is about< no control over that, but might be a less costly option than building an enclosed temp/humidity controlled environment deal!
food for thought??
I worked in a clean room(15+yrs) that was both temp and humidity controlled to never change temp by mroe than 2 degree's, not to mention had to be almost 100% dust free too!
to do so, we had to have a separate entrance before entering the main room, the walls were some sort of Plastic PVC type material,and all seams were sealed that or some walls were complete solid glass, (12ft+tall and in I think 6 or maybe even 8 ft wide sheets been a long time since had that job) and had exhaust and AC/heat ducts in ceiling!, concrete floor coating with some anti slip coating, once things were up and running, things stayed the same temp pretty darn close,
but when ever you opened a door to get in, even with the second entrance way deal, there was huge vacuum like air movement , it came and went fast though!
Now I am sure you don;t need things that extreme, just giving you an example of what I experienced! and some idea's maybe!
and I 100% agree a ton of timber you get from stores anymore already has mold on it, and just cause you don;t see , doesn;t mean its not there, mold is on many things long before it turns green or black/white1
if I was going to build a temp controlled room, I think I would pre treat all things before sealing them up!, they sell spray solutions you can treat things, not super cheap , nor super costly, just would add a layer of less concern for me!
now another thought for you, to maybe consider
have you thought about building a covered like car port<
you can maybe pour a concrete perimeter around it, add some thinner wire mesh , or even perforated metal sheets into concrete and as walls to keep mice out,, just get things with holes small enough to prevent them from fitting! if you go with perforated metal sheets, be them aluminum or steel, you can always paint them to make it more enjoyable on the eye's!
fill center of pad in with gravel inside the fenced in section, if you follow,
add a good sealed garage door to one end, and then you would have it outside to get good air flow, yet still have a critter proof set up,
if you build it wide enough and with enough over hang on sides, it will keep pretty much all snow and rain out!
yet again allow you all the free flowing air and just be stuck with what ever humidity is about< no control over that, but might be a less costly option than building an enclosed temp/humidity controlled environment deal!
food for thought??
dfattack
Well-known member
Yes, this is what my son told me too. Humidor level. 60% is supposedly ideal.
"Do the seams split because of the wood changing dimension or the finish not being able to shrink/expand?"
Not sure, but maybe a combination of both. Agree air movement will need to occur. Thank you for your comments.
Yeah, I'm all over the door. I have a Raynor door picked out that has that R26 Value.
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dfattack
Well-known member
MRBB, all good info. Yes I have thought about a car port and would probably work. Who knows maybe it will end up being something like that, but that's so not me 
Trying different options, researching (as you can see) and hoping to see if anyone here had any experience with wood boat storage. I'm using in-floor heat that doesn't dry out the air as much as a wall/ceiling mount type furnace, but will still need a humidifier.
Basically I was hoping to see if there was someone who had your clean room type of experience but with Classic wood boat storage or even walk in humidor construction experience. I plan on restoring the boat starting next summer some time and I keep learning more and more about them.
Thanks for your comments. Much appreciated.
Trying different options, researching (as you can see) and hoping to see if anyone here had any experience with wood boat storage. I'm using in-floor heat that doesn't dry out the air as much as a wall/ceiling mount type furnace, but will still need a humidifier.
Basically I was hoping to see if there was someone who had your clean room type of experience but with Classic wood boat storage or even walk in humidor construction experience. I plan on restoring the boat starting next summer some time and I keep learning more and more about them.
Thanks for your comments. Much appreciated.
dfattack
Well-known member
Yeah, I have but they all suggest outside over gravel. I'm trying to figure out a different approach if possible.
I never thought I would have one of these boats but it was my uncles and Grandfathers which they bought in the 1950's. My cousins were going to sell it for parts so I figured I would take on the restoration project and keep it in the family.
pclark
Well-known member
The wood shrinks because it gets too dry, should be between 45% and 55% indoors. All solid wood does that, if you have solid wood floors in your house they typically gap in the winter with low relative humidity unless you run April Aire or a humidifier. I believe that they use teak or mahogany on the those wooden boats which come from the Amazon rain forest and is very susceptible to dimensional change, being in the water is a good place for it considering where it is imported from. My neighbor across the street would pull his out of storage every spring and fill it with water until the boards swelled back to normal and became seaworthy again. Kind of crazy, I wouldn't of believed it unless I saw it.
hybrid
Active member
i have been is the boat stg biz for 35 yearsMRBB, all good info. Yes I have thought about a car port and would probably work. Who knows maybe it will end up being something like that, but that's so not me
Trying different options, researching (as you can see) and hoping to see if anyone here had any experience with wood boat storage. I'm using in-floor heat that doesn't dry out the air as much as a wall/ceiling mount type furnace, but will still need a humidifier.
Basically I was hoping to see if there was someone who had your clean room type of experience but with Classic wood boat storage or even walk in humidor construction experience. I plan on restoring the boat starting next summer some time and I keep learning more and more about them.
Thanks for your comments. Much appreciated.
we always store the classic wood boats with all the other boats
inside unheated cold storage no problems with finish or cracking
most restored wood boats nowadays have epoxy coated bottoms
do not need to let them swell up and not leak
not to say your idea is bad
i like to be able to get to my boat in the winter so i keep my boat at home in the garage
tinker and clean time
no classic woody for me tho lol
dfattack
Well-known member
Yes when I have mine restored I will be putting on the 5200 bottom which eliminates the need to soak the bottom. My cousin and uncle just had theirs done too. It's nice. The soaking process takes days to get them ready for the lake.
just throwing this out there as not sure on things 100%, but maybe try talking to someone in a higher end custom paint shop or painting forum!
, many of the modern painting booths are petty darn high tech and temp and guessing humidity controlled, and they make the rooms , in side buildings, ,
maybe they would have some insight here you could use?
and there adding venting could also help with fumes and or maybe even dust issue';s when sanding things?
just a something else maybe to consider!
, many of the modern painting booths are petty darn high tech and temp and guessing humidity controlled, and they make the rooms , in side buildings, ,
maybe they would have some insight here you could use?
and there adding venting could also help with fumes and or maybe even dust issue';s when sanding things?
just a something else maybe to consider!
As a engineer for Raynor, I really appreciate you ordering one of our doors!
It is a tank of a garage door. You will be happy with it.
This one:
TM320
Raynor's ThermaSeal TM320 sectional insulated steel door is ideal for commercial buildings, underground parking, high-security facilities, and more.raynor.com
This the correct choice?
Nothing lasts forever, but a metal roof will outlast you! Zero maintenance and with 5/12, you will not have to worry about shoveling it.
Only issues with metal roofs are large valleys, rainwater can build up speed coming into them and shoot under the other side, causing water damage.
Only issues with metal roofs are large valleys, rainwater can build up speed coming into them and shoot under the other side, causing water damage.
dfattack
Well-known member
Anyway, I've been trying to work with an architect/engineer for over a year now who I've known for 25 years. Good guy but I'm just not happy how fast he's working on blue prints for me.
Was wondering if anyone here knows or can recommend an architect who works in northern Wisconsin. I want to get plans put together so I can get a feel for how much this garage will cost, but I need some prints to do that. If you don't want to leave their info in this thread but want to share with me please send a PM.
Thank you.
Was wondering if anyone here knows or can recommend an architect who works in northern Wisconsin. I want to get plans put together so I can get a feel for how much this garage will cost, but I need some prints to do that. If you don't want to leave their info in this thread but want to share with me please send a PM.
Thank you.