Building / Shop advice

[G]

Correction. My big door is four inches thick. It is a big heavy sucker that needs a pretty good opener to lift it. It is maybe overkill. Perhaps you would not need to spend that much on a door. But I believe it gets colder here than it does where you are so I am happy with my choice.

If at all possible orient the building so that the door you use most is on the SOUTH. The sun is your friend especially in the fall and spring as far as keeping snow and ice under control. Everything I own is oriented south and it just works better. I have seen ice in May hang around on north door settings. But again it is colder here than there. Just a thought. If you are going to spend this kind of money there is much to consider.

 

[dfattack]

Sounds like a fun project with the planning of a new shop.
I am not real clear on the intended use of the building. That is a large shop and I'm guessing you will get plenty of requests for help on bigger equipment.
Floor heat is hard to beat. The ideas about adding lifts are great. Keep in mind that most of them need anchors. That takes planning when you do the floor heat. They are also isolated to the location. Overhead lifts are awesome when they are done right. If you go that route, go with enough capacity to do more than you anticipate. It's big bucks to go full length with a cross to cover the entire building, but you will be done. I'd also try to keep the winch system simple. I've dealt with overheads that are worthless because of some sticky switch. One thing to also keep in mind with overhead is the height limitation. The sidewalls may seem awful tall now, but the lift height is considerably less.
Questions about door size are relevant too. Go with one big door that seals well. Doesn't matter if it is slow because you won't open it every day. put in a second door that is big enough for most normal projects. That is the door you will use the most and it needs to work easily and efficiently.

With the larger shop size, you will be tempted to use it to thaw off equipment a lot. Those drains should be easy to clean. I'm talking about shovel width flat pan bottoms. The idea of running the full length is cool, but you also need to clean the entire drain. You will be amazed at how much stuff accumulates in those drains. They also need heavy duty grating with a shop that big. (It will be tempting to drive in big equipment.) Cleaning the drain means removing the grating.
I talk about the drains a lot because they also hold water with all the junk. Manage the water. It's hard on equipment and buildings. I have one work area with small drain inlets and separate sediment collection that works fairly well.

I generally take a long term lazy/efficiency approach to planning. It might be some extra work to do it right in the first place, but it saves me work every day down the road. That is a big deal in the end. Run bigger conduit when you do the electric so you can add circuits where you use them down the road. My goal with outlets is to never need an extension cord laying across the floor. I put in a lot of outlets with alternating circuits. It's common to have a couple of big items running at the same time. I also like to run switched circuits on items that get used often. It's convenient to tuck away dust collection and use a wall switch to turn on the equipment.
I'm also a big fan of making everything easy to clean. Work benches are generally mounted to the wall so I can sweep or blow debris away. Floors are smooth enough to skim sweep and I also install floor inlets for dust extraction.

It might also be nice to make a separate office/lounge/bath area with it's own zone heat. Workshops don't really need to be that warm. Toilets and tushies like to be warm. Save money on heating the big space.

All excellent comments and much appreciated.

My intended use is to store my enclosed trailer, 2 boats, possibly a third being my uncles boat, possible future pontoon boat (making 4 boats), Side by side, 2 ATV's and 5 sleds. I want to be able to pull in one end with my trailer unhook and leave it thaw out overnight then back in the next day hook up and head out the other end. Of course that's when we can't ride from the house or simply want to explore different areas. So mostly storage but also I want to dedicate a spot to have service done on the toys. I don't have time to learn how to wrench like some of you but I wish I could honestly so I'm leaving that up to a friend of mine who owns a shop nearby. With this dedicated spot for repairs that will reduce how often I'm shuttling the toys back and forth to a shop for maintenance or repairs.

As far as the drains I will use cast iron grates that I already use in my existing garages. They come in sections that can be attached to each other then run to the sewer. you can pull the grates off and hose them out. I don't plan on having any farm equipment or anything like that so I can hose the drains out if necessary. My friend leaves his tractor with snowblower similar to JD's at my place all winter and takes care of my driveways. once this shop is complete he will leave it inside instead of plugging it into my house when not in use.

 

[dfattack]

X2 on the poles to protect your doors. Doors are expensive and easy to tweak. On that note my big door is insulated and is three inches thick. You can get cheaper doors but I have never regretted my choice this way.
As far as water heaters out water sucks here. That is why the tankless are such a pain. But if you have to hire someone every year to service them and then also have a water softener and feed that too how much money and convenience are you saving? I don't know. Lots of options.

One thing I have noticed through the years is that toys like boats last a lot longer in a controlled environment rather than just leaving them outside. Things like vinyl and even paint and tires look like new if you clean everything up good before you put it away. It costs money to build a nice big heated shop/storage but there are many benefits.

Grub, good idea on the poles, which I call bollards. I install them to protect gas meters and menu boards from being hit so completely understand that concept and hadn't even thought about that for the shop so thank you for reminding me. Nice catch

 

[dfattack]

Correction. My big door is four inches thick. It is a big heavy sucker that needs a pretty good opener to lift it. It is maybe overkill. Perhaps you would not need to spend that much on a door. But I believe it gets colder here than it does where you are so I am happy with my choice.

If at all possible orient the building so that the door you use most is on the SOUTH. The sun is your friend especially in the fall and spring as far as keeping snow and ice under control. Everything I own is oriented south and it just works better. I have seen ice in May hang around on north door settings. But again it is colder here than there. Just a thought. If you are going to spend this kind of money there is much to consider.

Yes, the doors will be thick and insulated. The buidling will be running north to south so yes the exposure is as you said. This will be in Florence WI so yes it does get cold. I usually double up the in floor loops on the apron where the overhead door comes down to keep the ice from building up.

 

[dfattack]

I knew I could count on you guys for great advice and wanted to thank all of you. Keep them coming, I'm like a sponge soaking up the info.

 

[heckler56]

All good points. Yes, I will have water and a Rinnai Tankless water heater. I have them already at the business and they have been reliable so far but need an annual cleaning as a preventative.

I am curious about something and honestly that's why I even posted this thread to begin with. the wider door suggestion interests me. I have a friend who has a 14' X 14' door and anything he's wanted to bring in hasn't been a problem. Can you give me some examples of what I would need the 20' wide door for?

If I understand it correctly you will have a 60’ wide barn? If you use a 14’ wide door, that will leave 46’(likely 44’ usable) - roughly 23’ on each side of the door to store. Think of the angle of attack you need to point a trailer or vehicle to get it to the wall. Since tandem axle trailers do not pivot well you will need to leave a spot open inside enough to back or pull in. I have 6’ on each side of the door and 40’ deep and my 26’ pontoon is never snug to the wall before I tap the back wall. I then have to pull forward, then back, a couple times to snug it against the wall.

 

[dfattack]

If I understand it correctly you will have a 60’ wide barn? If you use a 14’ wide door, that will leave 46’(likely 44’ usable) - roughly 23’ on each side of the door to store. Think of the angle of attack you need to point a trailer or vehicle to get it to the wall. Since tandem axle trailers do not pivot well you will need to leave a spot open inside enough to back or pull in. I have 6’ on each side of the door and 40’ deep and my 26’ pontoon is never snug to the wall before I tap the back wall. I then have to pull forward, then back, a couple times to snug it against the wall.

Kinda hard to explain the layout without putting blueprints here but the overhead doors are currently set to be offset to say the left side creating the aisle. The enclosed trailer will always be in this aisle towards the back end. pull in one door and out the other. the rest of the toys will be angled on the right side, not perpendicular to the aisle but more like a 30- 45 degree angle. Dont know exact. I have placed my boats to scale on the prints including tongue to make sure my aisle was always clear to move trailer in and out all winter. I originally had the shop 50' wide but realized this wouldn't be wide enough for space behind the boats for walking and work benches and tool boxes.

 

[G]

Angles waste space. Maybe offset the big doors opposite from one end to the other. That way you could back your toys in tighter and not waste space. If the doors are big enough you would still have a Lane in the middle to drive straight through when needed. It would be easier to back tandem trailers in if you don't have to cramp them so bad.

 

[heckler56]

Kinda hard to explain the layout without putting blueprints here but the overhead doors are currently set to be offset to say the left side creating the aisle. The enclosed trailer will always be in this aisle towards the back end. pull in one door and out the other. the rest of the toys will be angled on the right side, not perpendicular to the aisle but more like a 30- 45 degree angle. Dont know exact. I have placed my boats to scale on the prints including tongue to make sure my aisle was always clear to move trailer in and out all winter. I originally had the shop 50' wide but realized this wouldn't be wide enough for space behind the boats for walking and work benches and tool boxes.

Glad you thought about it. Now I get why so large. So will you get your own zip code . Look into your area on whether heat, water will be considered a “livable” structure for real estate purposes. In my township I am allowed electric but heat or water they would declare and tax as a 7,200 sq ft home. That would add about $25k per year in RE taxes!

 

[mrbb]

Grub, good idea on the poles, which I call bollards. I install them to protect gas meters and menu boards from being hit so completely understand that concept and hadn't even thought about that for the shop so thank you for reminding me. Nice catch

hey why you giving Grub credit fort the poles that was me LOL
just teasing!

just saying too, they do sell some nice trailer dollies that can move trailers all over in buildings these days, so no need to use a big truck, and they can get things in and out of tighter spots way easier!, if your going to have that many trailers, boats sleds and atvs and??
be worth having one maybe
something like this

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086SDRDYN/?tag=marinetalking-20

 

[dfattack]

hey why you giving Grub credit fort the poles that was me LOL
just teasing!

just saying too, they do sell some nice trailer dollies that can move trailers all over in buildings these days, so no need to use a big truck, and they can get things in and out of tighter spots way easier!, if your going to have that many trailers, boats sleds and atvs and??
be worth having one maybe
something like this

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086SDRDYN/?tag=marinetalking-20

I just saved that link. That's a great idea! Much better than using the truck!

 

[dfattack]

Glad you thought about it. Now I get why so large. So will you get your own zip code . Look into your area on whether heat, water will be considered a “livable” structure for real estate purposes. In my township I am allowed electric but heat or water they would declare and tax as a 7,200 sq ft home. That would add about $25k per year in RE taxes!

 

[mrbb]

I just saved that link. That's a great idea! Much better than using the truck!

just make sure you get one that can handle the weight of your largest trailer loaded
My one friend own a boat storage /repair shop, and uses them things to position stored boats in off season, they are pretty cool, with how they can get trailers into smaller places! ,. he has a few now, even wireless remote controlled one' its on tracks and can pull things across gravel pretty well, pretty amazing the power it has!
, but I;'m pretty sure that a more costly model, and not really needed for a home owner, he makes money using them , so can afford the better end models!

 

[srt20]

I didnt read all the replies so sorry if it repetitive. We built a shop in 2014 and here's a few things Ive learned.

1.Build it bigger. Im sure its been said already.
2.Put more outlets in. Think you have enough? Add some more. I thought I was way good. Some never get used on one end, and others have those extensions with multiple plugs and those are all full and I want more.
3.Spend the money on high end overhead doors. I forget the name of the company, but I think they are in WI. I can look if interested. The insulation is very noticeable compared to my brothers "expensive" Menards overhead door. Pricy but they installed doors and openers. Lifetime warranty.
4. Foam board under concrete. I assume its standard deal, but Idk. I have a 80k ceiling furnace and floor stays warm in winter, and it stays cool in summer.
5. I did a 3/4 length floor drain down center. Glad I did. Not in workbench area.
6. I had plumbing roughed into concrete for toilet. I didnt build a bathroom yet because, I am already using that area for crap. (build bigger)

I didnt put a lift in. I prefer rolling on a creeper vs standing and tilting head up. But thats just a personal thing.

2 last things, build it bigger, and more outlets.

 

[scottiking]

I've been waiting almost ten years to build this for all the toys so I could do it the "right way" and not cut any corners. I think I'm ready now and am starting to plan ahead for construction possibly next spring/summer. I've already heard from several people to build bigger than what you think you need since you fill it up quickly. I would like to hear from anyone who has built one already or has a shop/garage and could share some tips as to what I should include that maybe I haven't thought of yet.

I will be storing several boats, ATV's, snowmobiles and my 28' trailer. I would like to have a lift for the ATV's and sleds and have been told to have a steel beam above the section where the lift will be to hoist up the sled or ATV if necessary.

Any other advice would be appreciated.

I love my shop at the Lakeshack
30x40 w 10’ sidewalls
We always wish it was bigger but then ya just get more stuff-
I sprayfoamed the walls and blew in the attic with a drop down door and storage above
I wish I could of afforded the in floor heat but that was out of my budget!
I have a 125btu hanging furnace that heats it up in 10 min tho
I have a WiFi stat so I can flip the heat on form anywhere
I also have a WiFi plug on the block heater on my tractor so it’s ready to roll when I pull in to plow out
A fridge, big ass smart tv and a floor drain are musts for me
It’s a super awesome place to hang out with buddies for beers and sled videos

Scottiking OUT

 

[dfattack]

Does anyone have an architect you would recommend in the North East Wisconsin area?

 

[blkhwkbob]

120' x 60'? You don't need our advice. Ask your butler.

 

[wiharley02]

You are asking at the right place, this is a knowledgeable experienced group. So many great suggestions, I can't add much, besides I'm jealous!

On the wall outlets - Put them higher than 4 feet off the ground. If you have things leaning against the wall, sheet of plywood, whatever, better chance they won't be covered up.

As for an overhead crane/hoist, rather than building a steel i-beam system "permament" to the structure, consider buying an A-frame style portable unit. You can wheel it wherever you need it, and can probably store it off to the side over a boat or other toy in storage.

Good luck, have fun

 

[srt20]

You are asking at the right place, this is a knowledgeable experienced group. So many great suggestions, I can't add much, besides I'm jealous!

On the wall outlets - Put them higher than 4 feet off the ground. If you have things leaning against the wall, sheet of plywood, whatever, better chance they won't be covered up.

As for an overhead crane/hoist, rather than building a steel i-beam system "permament" to the structure, consider buying an A-frame style portable unit. You can wheel it wherever you need it, and can probably store it off to the side over a boat or other toy in storage.

Good luck, have fun

I agree 100%!! I put mine at 4 ft. Bad idea

 

[goofy600]

I agree 100%!! I put mine at 4 ft. Bad idea

Srt20 what height would you put outlets at if you had do over? And I believe you said something about high quality garage doors, could you possibly find the name of that company and post it. Thanks in advance.