I have a question to both naysayers and sayers

euphoric1

Well-known member
I have a question, everyone who has read my posts on this covid-19 action knows my stance... a serious overreaction, and I still stand by that opinion. I have a question for both those that share the same opinion as I have and those that don't. I will start with a statement before I ask the question.

The WHO (world health organization) estimates that 250,000 - 500,000 people die "EACH" year from the influenza virus we encounter year after year, and keep in mind this is something we have vaccines and treatments in place for, and it affects primarily the same age group as the covid-19 is especially fatal to, yet the world goes on, the economy for the most part goes unaffected by it.

Somewhere between 20,000 - 60,000 people die in our own country from the influenza virus each year with same treatments, from same age group primarily and the world goes on as stated in first listed above.

So far less than 9000 people have died world wide from covid-19 including places and countries that have seen the virus at such a unprecedented extreme scale and the world economy is on one of its worst downfalls

So far a little more than 100 people have died in our country, most of which occurred under one roof in the state of Washington, and our economy once strong has TANKED and the worse is yet to come according to officials, I think we are headed to an economic downfall that we as individuals and as a country are not prepared for and am afraid how far it will go.

We are whether you like it or not desocializing society which will have its own ramifications that we yet know as to what extent and to what extreme it will go.

Looking at what I have stated above I want those that think this is an overreaction and those that think we are doing the right thing to think about the question I am about to ask and to rsespond without bashing or criticizing one anothers opinion. I also want to state that as an society death should never become accepted or ignored. Here is my question.


Lets say that in the end 50,000 people die world wide or even 100,000 and lets say fatalities fall way short on our soil of what the influenza virus kills each and every year. How do react from here on out? as the flu virus comes back each year and on average kills 200,000 people world wide, what do we do? do we act as we are? if we don't are we putting a closed eye at the inevidable ? I still think this is an overreaction and am curious for those that think the same or don't think how we should approach flu season next year.
 
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Skylar

Super Moderator
Staff member
I believe it is a huge over reaction also. What worries me the most is the precedent that has now been set. Now, anytime there is a virus, this is what will happen. You will be told where you can and cannot go, whether you will be able to work or not work. The fear mongering by the media is out of control. I have two life long friends who are on the front lines, both nurses, they also say the media has blown this out of proportion. My work is not shut down, but if the government, state or federal, enacts a state wide quarantine, well, I will be beyond pissed.
 

soxfan3

Member
As Tae Adams from the Packers put it, "wash your hands, wash your butt". If people would stay home when the feel sick, practice better hygiene and not spread ANY virus or illness they may have, the epidemic would not be near as severe. Todays society goes to work sick all the time, some because they simply can't afford not to go to work. I do agree with you & think this is a little bit of overreaction by society. This strand of 'flu' virus, does appear to spread faster than others, but maybe it is just a case of more people travelling to a lot of other destinations that even 5-10 years ago was unheard of.
 

gary_in_neenah

Super Moderator
Staff member
Excellent post! I don't have an answer, too many unknowns. So much of the "panic" is cause and effect. They closed down the colleges and now the beaches in Florida are packed. Hospitals in Green Bay are at 97% capacity and paramedics are told to only transport the critical. Early on some stores ran low on Bath Tissue and then the hoarding began. I'm being perfectly honest here (and opinionated) I'm more concerned with the financial consequences then the health concerns. Each day this continues, the recovery is going to take longer and become more costly. We're probably in a Recession right now and don't even know it.
Lastly, I feel great now but a month ago I was sick as a dog. The wife thinks I had the virus back in February, typical flu with chills, sweats, and a wicked cough that sounded like a dog barking. I felt miserable, was down for three weeks, but I fought through it like I always do and today I'm doing fine. "So, I got that going for me, which is nice."

I was in a Lowes yesterday and talking with the checkout lady. Last weekend was crazy for crowds, everyone stocking up on "home projects" like paint and tile. Sounds like they're staying home and staying busy for the time being. That's what I'll be doing, catching up on my To Do List. Besides, the dog likes having me home all day, more treats and more exercise. Stay healthy, everyone!
 

mrbb

Well-known member
I think everyone today over reacts to almost anything, it seems everyone needs some sort of shock value to get attention they MUST HAVE!
FAME Is something far too many IMO place a priority on and they don't seem to care why or what gets them Fame!

Next is, frivolous law suits, GOD there is no shortage of them, and I think many folks, and this includes the Government, is paranoid about NOT doing something more than, do logical things!
the fear of being BASHED On TV< NEW and the world wide web alone seems to force so many into TRYING to do more, .say more, and fake feelings and emotions and blow up small things into huge things!
again, part to show there TRYING< part to cover there butt's and part to again, get attention/fame!

NOW< as of this current issue at hand, YES I think most are over reacting BIG time, but at the same time, I think the fear that is leading this wave, is the fact there is NO cure, or prevention of it from spreading !

Yes the above flue's and illness's the OP used as examples, THEY DO have cures and treatments in place
so even when they break out , there is a treatment to cure them!

where as this thing, if it spreads and spreads with NO stopping it or cure, can possibly have some major effects , and that is where the FEAR and over reaction is coming from

DO< you wait till things get REALLY bad before you REACT< or start NOW< before it gets worse?


we as humans, grow real easy to over look things till they happen to US or one's we love!

Starvation kills 25000+ people a yr in the USA< according to stat's I have seen, and few seem worried about that
add in the tens of thousands that die in vehicle crashes every yr in the USA, and again, so few think twice about getting in a vehicle!
and the main reason is, again, NO major Hype about it on the new's to get everyone excited about it!

SO< over reacting, to this, YES many are, but, at what point SHOULD we really worry??

the over reacting, if nothing else, should at least be forcing a cure to happen sooner, so, at least maybe that's a PLUS??
 

Admin

Administrator
Staff member
I really cannot see now one can make a full assessment. Like Gary said, too many unknowns. One of the reasons the extra precautions are being made is that the medical community does not and admits that they do not know a lot of about this virus.

The mortality rate for the seasonal flu varies between around .01 to .02 percent in the US. So far this virus is at 1.5-2 percent. That is 100 times greater. So say that half the people in this country get it. Roughly 1 out of every 100 persons you know will die from it. Sound good?

I guess I sit on the other side of most on this site, as I am one that has a compromised immune system due to childhood cancer as well as risk due to all of my heart issues. I am not panicked, or doing anything irrational. We did buy some extra groceries yesterday and I am going to pick up a few more things today and then we will be set for the next 2-3 weeks easy. Right now I feel safe going about in public and being diligent in my hygiene practices. I am going to start limiting my exposure to the general public after today and plan to self-quarantine myself to Jacobsville once spring breakers come back, as they are sure to bring it back to the Keweenaw. Had a regularly scheduled follow up with my Dr yesterday and said my plan sound very good. He said my risk of complications from it is higher and I really need to be careful.

I must say that I am a little taken back by the selfishness of some, going about their day and not heeding anything that is asked of them. They probably feel THEY will get by just fine and most likely will. Unfortunately, their actions increases the risk that I and others will get it and could be in real trouble. All for what? A play date? Is everyone really so amped up that they cannot chill out for 2-3 weeks? And money...so you have a drop in income for a bit. Try owning your own business, happens all the time. If you run your business right, you will survive just fine. If you just collect a paycheck and cannot afford to be without income for a few weeks. God help you. You are living way beyond you means and it was going to catch up with you sooner or later.

I think back to "The Greatest Generation". The sacrifices these folks made is unbelievable. Many went without a meal that contained their typical elements for years. Folks grew "Victory Gardens" so that the troops could get the food they would have otherwise eaten. It was not about themselves, it was about survival for all. In my opinion, we are at the opposite end of the spectrum these days. Me, Me, Me. That is what will take this country down. Not a virus or a recession.

-John
 

xcr440

Well-known member
I'm in the over reaction camp, but I can understand some of it.

What I can't understand is the panic being put in place and how people are clearing store shelves. I go to the grocery store everyday and talk with the people there and they have seen the decline in humanity first hand. What the **** are you going to do with 24 rolls of TP, much less 6 bags of 24 rolls at a time!!!

I said to a guy checking out with among a cart full of things, two 5lb bags of sugar the other day: "That must be quite the birthday cake you are making!" He snickered at me and walked out. Really???

They are telling us not to hang out or go to crowded spaces, yet people are crowding into stores and pushing each other through the isles to get a couple bags of sugar??

This kinda says it all:
IMG_3782.JPG
 

snowdance

Member
I really cannot see now one can make a full assessment. Like Gary said, too many unknowns. One of the reasons the extra precautions are being made is that the medical community does not and admits that they do not know a lot of about this virus.

The mortality rate for the seasonal flu varies between around .01 to .02 percent in the US. So far this virus is at 1.5-2 percent. That is 100 times greater. So say that half the people in this country get it. Roughly 1 out of every 100 persons you know will die from it. Sound good?

I guess I sit on the other side of most on this site, as I am one that has a compromised immune system due to childhood cancer as well as risk due to all of my heart issues. I am not panicked, or doing anything irrational. We did buy some extra groceries yesterday and I am going to pick up a few more things today and then we will be set for the next 2-3 weeks easy. Right now I feel safe going about in public and being diligent in my hygiene practices. I am going to start limiting my exposure to the general public after today and plan to self-quarantine myself to Jacobsville once spring breakers come back, as they are sure to bring it back to the Keweenaw. Had a regularly scheduled follow up with my Dr yesterday and said my plan sound very good. He said my risk of complications from it is higher and I really need to be careful.

I must say that I am a little taken back by the selfishness of some, going about their day and not heeding anything that is asked of them. They probably feel THEY will get by just fine and most likely will. Unfortunately, their actions increases the risk that I and others will get it and could be in real trouble. All for what? A play date? Is everyone really so amped up that they cannot chill out for 2-3 weeks? And money...so you have a drop in income for a bit. Try owning your own business, happens all the time. If you run your business right, you will survive just fine. If you just collect a paycheck and cannot afford to be without income for a few weeks. God help you. You are living way beyond you means and it was going to catch up with you sooner or later.

I think back to "The Greatest Generation". The sacrifices these folks made is unbelievable. Many went without a meal that contained their typical elements for years. Folks grew "Victory Gardens" so that the troops could get the food they would have otherwise eaten. It was not about themselves, it was about survival for all. In my opinion, we are at the opposite end of the spectrum these days. Me, Me, Me. That is what will take this country down. Not a virus or a recession.

-John

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly! Have any of the naysayers taken a look at what happened and is happening in Italy? This is what the US is trying to prevent.
 

pclark

Well-known member
I think this is a huge over reaction based on the numbers that just don't add up. As stated, will this become the new norm every year for the flu virus and plunge us into hysteria and panic constantly?

Is this what socialism is? I think its fairly close. In short, small and large business cannot survive being told to shut down. I truly believe that in a week or so, the bars and restaurant owners will face the fact that unless they take things into their own hands and re-open to start making a living that they have worked so hard to create it will all be lost. There comes a time when people will stand up and say enough is enough and I am one of them.

In speaking with my daughter who is 29, I get the impression that their generation is the most worried about this as it is their first major crisis and they don't know how to handle it. She is worried that their business may close and that they might lose their house. I tried to tell her that this is highly unlikely but I could tell in her voice that she was not convinced. For me, I am almost at retirement age and have made my living and have been very fortunate but what about all these young people who up until 3 weeks ago were really enjoying the fruits of a string economy and getting ahead in life?

Its a sad situation and I think that by April first if it has not subsided people will make it subside and we will get on with our lives like we always do.

Don't even get me started about the media, someone should pull the plug and we should go dark, we would all be better off not listening to them, I have started this already and refuse to watch the news. It reminds me of 9/11 when all it was 24/7 blasted in your face until you just got sick of it and had to turn the TV off.

God Bless America and all of our great people here that have common sense, By the way, Common Sense is free!
 

chunk06

Active member
I agree John. Wisconsin shut bars and restaurants down yesterday at 5. I could not believe the people crying on facebook about missing a drinking holiday. People are selfish.
 

indy_500

Well-known member
Agreed major overreaction. I believe there’s more going on though than what they want us to believe. Translate Covid to Hebrew and translate that Hebrew translation back to English guess what it is? Kobe. What cemetery was Kobe buried in? Corona Del Mar. hmmmmmm... dozens of CEO’s have stepped down in the last couple months. Where did Bill Gates go?
 
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wirev

New member
Great post, John! Agree all the way around. The media and the fear factor are ridiculous. I am in a similar situation with some medical problems and an elder statesman so I have to be careful.
 

old abe

Well-known member
I really cannot see now one can make a full assessment. Like Gary said, too many unknowns. One of the reasons the extra precautions are being made is that the medical community does not and admits that they do not know a lot of about this virus.

The mortality rate for the seasonal flu varies between around .01 to .02 percent in the US. So far this virus is at 1.5-2 percent. That is 100 times greater. So say that half the people in this country get it. Roughly 1 out of every 100 persons you know will die from it. Sound good?

I guess I sit on the other side of most on this site, as I am one that has a compromised immune system due to childhood cancer as well as risk due to all of my heart issues. I am not panicked, or doing anything irrational. We did buy some extra groceries yesterday and I am going to pick up a few more things today and then we will be set for the next 2-3 weeks easy. Right now I feel safe going about in public and being diligent in my hygiene practices. I am going to start limiting my exposure to the general public after today and plan to self-quarantine myself to Jacobsville once spring breakers come back, as they are sure to bring it back to the Keweenaw. Had a regularly scheduled follow up with my Dr yesterday and said my plan sound very good. He said my risk of complications from it is higher and I really need to be careful.

I must say that I am a little taken back by the selfishness of some, going about their day and not heeding anything that is asked of them. They probably feel THEY will get by just fine and most likely will. Unfortunately, their actions increases the risk that I and others will get it and could be in real trouble. All for what? A play date? Is everyone really so amped up that they cannot chill out for 2-3 weeks? And money...so you have a drop in income for a bit. Try owning your own business, happens all the time. If you run your business right, you will survive just fine. If you just collect a paycheck and cannot afford to be without income for a few weeks. God help you. You are living way beyond you means and it was going to catch up with you sooner or later.

I think back to "The Greatest Generation". The sacrifices these folks made is unbelievable. Many went without a meal that contained their typical elements for years. Folks grew "Victory Gardens" so that the troops could get the food they would have otherwise eaten. It was not about themselves, it was about survival for all. In my opinion, we are at the opposite end of the spectrum these days. Me, Me, Me. That is what will take this country down. Not a virus or a recession.

-John

Well stated John, I agree!
 

hermie

Well-known member
I see both sides. Most of the so called experts are saying that is not going to be over in a couple of weeks it could go on for a year or longer. I'm sorry but I can't stay home and get paid. I am a tradesman no work no pay. I don't know anyone who can go a year without working. This 2 weeks of shutting everything down is going to slow it down but as soon as they ease up the restrictions we will see an increase in cases,then they will have to shut everything down again. So where does it end? There are no easy answer, and I am not saying I have the answers. If everybody would use more common sense wash there hands,stay home when they are sick most of this could be avoided. I can't tell you how many times I have seen people use the restroom and just walk out without washing there hands, disgusting.
 
John hit it on the head per usual. It's not about the total numbers but the percentages, .01% vs 1-2%. The 2000 countdown was a huge deal, a bunch of IT folks prepped for it and it never happened due to the "over reaction." That's ok and people need to remember that. How many bullets do you take when you go hunting? You only need 1 but I bet the clip/mag is full every time. Better to be over prepared than under prepared.

I also have a pre-existing condition that if I catch this I will probably end up in the hospital with pneumonia. The fire chief in GB just said hospitals are at 95% capacity already and we don't have any confirmed cases yet in Brown County, what am I to do if I can't breathe? Hope and praying will only work after death.

I agree with John also about the me me me that is popping up all over, especially on this forum. As probably one of the few millenials on this forum (maybe only?), I can say I am shocked at the response from the elders of this group. There is a ton of what about me, I saw a member say where am I going to get my beer if so and so bar is closed. So what. That bar won't have any income for weeks if not months. Buy the beer and sit in the parking lot, boo hoo.

So while you guys can say the media is over-reacting and the "so called" professionals are making it up, us with families of young and old people, healthy looking people who have diseases not clear to the naked eye, we will be working to stay away from crowds, avoid mingling with elderly and working on getting through this.

This got way longer than I wanted and I'm sorry for the long read. The last week was rough on a lot of people and really brought out some interesting sides to everybody and I thought I should also get to say my piece.
 
G

G

Guest
It is a coronavirus. It is not Ebola. Our government does not know the difference between the two. The media does not know the difference between the two. And the dumbed down general public does not know the difference between the two. If I were John with underlying health issues I would be laying low like he is. But is a less than 1% fatality rate worth destroying the economy and sending the masses in to a full blown panic? Bring it on and get it over with. If I die from it well then I die from it. When it is all said and done I have had a pretty good run. One day I caught a big fish and I got through my entire life without ever owning a minivan.
 

jakester

New member
John, was up in Lake Geneva yesterday with my Daughter and Son. We walked the dog around by the lake by the park off of 50. People walking around, not alot ,but they are out there. I live in the top of northern IL. I think it is funny that Governor J.B. Pritzker shut down everything but the marijuana shops I'm sure he invested in. I hope and pray we get through all this. By the way my oldest Son and family live in Palatine,IL. Their dog Marlin is a twin for Beau. He is absolutely amazing. Every now and than I get him when they go out of town. I have had goldens in the past ,but he is just has lovable and does not shed to bad. Anyway everyone be safe. John your site is amazing, I have been coming to it for over 20yrs.
 
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