I have a question to both naysayers and sayers

mezz

Well-known member
This issue is an unprecedented event. Something that has never happened before should cause a high level of public concern. Especially for the elderly population not to mention those that are immune compromised which is a category that I too fit into. None of us have traveled the road of a World-wide Pandemic before & hopefully, we never will again. Yes, we have been irritated with the media, & they will continue to irritate us, we just need to filter the rhetoric in order to make common sense of it all. Please be patient with this issue, many lives depend on it, including yours. -Mezz
 

old abe

Well-known member
This issue is an unprecedented event. Something that has never happened before should cause a high level of public concern. Especially for the elderly population not to mention those that are immune compromised which is a category that I too fit into. None of us have traveled the road of a World-wide Pandemic before & hopefully, we never will again. Yes, we have been irritated with the media, & they will continue to irritate us, we just need to filter the rhetoric in order to make common sense of it all. Please be patient with this issue, many lives depend on it, including yours. -Mezz

Spot on, excellent!
 

jonesin

Well-known member
i believe huge over reaction
that being said Im all for being cautious, I understand closing the schools being closed.
I think this is going to be used to increase government control that they wont give up easily and how are we going to pay for all the votes they are already beginning to promise to buy?
Italy has an old population cramed into the area the size of arizona
We have 5 times the population and 32 times the land, (sure Alaska would reduce that) but still they keep comparing this us to italy in numbers....
 

snowdance

Member
Taken off of Facebook from someone who lives in Spain...

Day 3 of quarantine (it honestly seems like day 89).....


Thank you all for reaching out and checking on us with your phone calls and text messages. As most of you know, the entire country of Spain is in lockdown status. I was absolutely shocked at how quickly our busy little beach town turned into a ghost town in just a matter of hours. The original quarantine time frame was 15 days, but since Spain's Covid-19 cases are rapidly on the rise, the lockdown may be actually anywhere from 4 weeks to 4 months. As of today, there were 11,178 reported cases, which is 2,000 more than yesterday.


Many of you have asked what exactly does this mean for our family. Dean can only go to work if it is mission essential to the US Navy. Otherwise, he teleworks from home. He carries a letter from the Navy that may or may not get him out of a ticket when traveling for work. I can only leave for groceries or for the pharmacy. We must always travel alone and we must have a receipt in case we get pulled over by the National Police. (If anyone ignores the quarantine rules, then they are faced with hefty fines and/or jail time).


It's scarier that I would like to admit and all so surreal. We are doing alright and taking advantage of lots of family time, but honestly we miss our freedom. Our girls begin online school tomorrow and we are grateful to our teachers for putting in so much extra work. We are also fortunate to have a yard, so that we can get at least go outside each day. Most Spaniards do not have this luxury and live in apartments with their entire extended family.


To all our friends in the states and throughout the entire world...THIS IS COMING. In just the US alone, cases rose 1,100 in the last 7 hours. Heed our warnings and learn from our mistakes. There is no more time. Last week we were in the "just wash your hands and social distance stage" and now we are in full lockdown mode" for an undetermined period of time. I never in a million years would have thought I would be quarantined in my own home. By the time we took it seriously, it was too late.
Please listen to the health officials, cancel social gatherings and limit contact with others to slow the infection rate. Stay inside, keep your children home, and understand this virus has a 2 week incubation period. You could be spreading the germs to every single person that you come in contact with for 2 full weeks and not even know it. Your actions now will make a huge difference for the next few weeks/months to come. This is no longer about you. Be the good.


Please thank every nurse, doctor, and teacher the next time you see them. They give more than we will ever know. <3


Stay safe and stay healthy. Thank you again for checking in on us. Love and miss you all. xoxoxoxo
 

DamageInc

Member
This issue is an unprecedented event. Something that has never happened before should cause a high level of public concern. Especially for the elderly population not to mention those that are immune compromised which is a category that I too fit into. None of us have traveled the road of a World-wide Pandemic before & hopefully, we never will again. Yes, we have been irritated with the media, & they will continue to irritate us, we just need to filter the rhetoric in order to make common sense of it all. Please be patient with this issue, many lives depend on it, including yours. -Mezz

What? 2009, H1N1 was a global pandemic. It killed over 12,000 people in the USA, and nobody was panicking and hoarding toilet paper. This is absolutely NOT unprecedented. And the mortality rate is far lower than what the MSM is reporting, because most cases are mild, never diagnosed as COVID19 and are not counted. The mainstream media has intentionally sent the mindless sheep into a panic. I would like to explain their motives, but it would probably break the forum rules.
 

SledTL

Active member
More worried about the economic reaction than anything else. Everything is interconnected nowadays so even if the US is fine and others get the hardest hit, it will still negatively effect things here. Too many people live paycheck to paycheck and will get burned by it.
 
More worried about the economic reaction than anything else. Everything is interconnected nowadays so even if the US is fine and others get the hardest hit, it will still negatively effect things here. Too many people live paycheck to paycheck and will get burned by it.

Somebody just wants to make Trump look bad and see the fall of our economy, some people don't want him back in office
 

timo

Well-known member
I'm more worried about the financial situation than my own health as If i get it I should be able to beat it fortunately.
Thing about it is this is just the beginning,,,, more people will get this, more people will get sick and die. In turn the stock market will keep taking a beating like we never seen. The more people get sick, the more closures of all walks of nature will take place. Its enviable every day theres more/new closures. Munchkin says not out of the realm to see 20% unemployment. During the great depression unemployment peaked at 23% and obviously we have alot more citizens than we had in 1933. So that 20% is even more than the depression considering the population.
 

kevinj

Member
HUGE overreaction, but if you want to shut things down, particularly schools, fine. A date has been set (4/6 for us). So rather than act harshly and now, less than one week later, say it is shut down for the remainder of the school year, is bogus. Why don't you get to 3/30 and re-evaluate. Baby steps, in my opinion, would be better for everyone and everything. But the government is taking giant leaps without all of the facts and media is playing right into it.

There was a bar in Brookfield, WI that made the new (as I am sure there are many across the country) staying open regardless of the shut down ruling. I applaud those places. You have people who have never been there and only know about the place because of the news of them staying open posting irreleavant reviews on its FB page.

Ridiculous to say the least and not one mention of the possibility of cancelling the DNC. Bogus.
 

favoritos

Well-known member
What? 2009, H1N1 was a global pandemic. It killed over 12,000 people in the USA, and nobody was panicking and hoarding toilet paper. This is absolutely NOT unprecedented. And the mortality rate is far lower than what the MSM is reporting, because most cases are mild, never diagnosed as COVID19 and are not counted. The mainstream media has intentionally sent the mindless sheep into a panic. I would like to explain their motives, but it would probably break the forum rules.

There were some big differences with H1N1. They had a vaccine and piles of it sitting in the SNS. Distribution was already in place too. We still lost 12,000 people?
I agree that people are going into a panic and doing some strangely odd practices. I'm not sure how much I blame the media. We all have a choice.
I'm not happy about the situation, but I'm afraid this is only the beginning. Acting smart is our best tool right now. It really is up to the public action to make this a non event. If they are going to hand out money to fuel the economy, give it to people that stay home awhile. This thing would be a non event dang fast if it quit spreading. It would also give the teams time to find the fix. Talk about a great way to get people working and spending again.

BTW, if we want to relate this to historical perspective, go back in time for two weeks or even a month. Look where it has been, and where it has moved. Those are the kind of numbers we will see if we do nothing.
Again, I'm not happy about the situation. But, it is up to us to stop this thing. We are all smart enough to know that watching media and buying toilet paper isn't the fix.
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
I'm tired of the flu argument as it makes no sense. People die from a variety of causes like car accidents, heart disease, cancer, and driving snowmobiles into trees. No matter the prevention or treatments available, some just won't make it and they die.

As a society we can handle this, we have enough hospitals, doctors, equipment, and mortuaries. While it is sad that people die it is built in to our lives and our care system. It does not overwhelm us.

What we are trying to prevent is a crisis, not a disease. There is no cure, there is no vaccine. Most get better, about 3% die. Our health care system cannot handle a crisis of this magnitude. These victims are on top of car accidents, heart attacks, and snowmobiles meets tree. But these happen over time on a statistically predictable pattern, this is a new way to die and it can't happen all at once or the health care system breaks.

I'm wintering in San Diego, it's different than the Fox River Valley or Houghton. We have 500 cases, 11 have died, that's 2.2%. Kinda scary in a state with 40 million people.

Out here, staying home is a good idea.

As an edit, I think the hoarding is stupid and irresponsible. We're not gonna die of starvation, lights will come on and water will run out of the tap. We're just being prudent, we're both 67 and at risk. We still go out and walk around, we're not hermits, but we are staying put in Ocean Beach where we can get what we need.
 

5_spot

Member
A couple things to keep in mind with the mortality percentage, where it started the living conditions are more like camps, high percentage of contraction plus were they tested or just assumed to have had it? I'm not sure about all states but in Illinois the test is controlled by the state. They have final and only approval for a patient to receive a test. I know a prominent Chicago area hospital was refused approval for a test as recent as yesterday. They basically can tell its likely Wuhan 2019 (the real name) if the patient shows symptoms and tests negative for regular influenza. Once the test has wide spread availability, the positives will climb rapidly and the mortality rate will decline.

This has been around around a few months. It's not like the movies where "Patient X" got on a plane after playing with monkeys (nothing against monkeys) in Asia and went straight to a Knicks game in NYC, infecting everyone along the way. It was discovered (or created) in late 2019 (the "19" in the name) and thousands traveled freely in the fall, thru the holidays right up to last couple weeks. A few weeks ago, it was all about the cruise ships, docked, floating at sea, quarantined, denied port. As far as I know, there are no ghost cruise ships floating around with no survivors? A cruise ship is about the worst place to be for a "pandemic" or any outbreak. Well known for rotovirus, norovirus and other outbreaks, Limited medical aid, limited food, community just about everything except sleeping. I think the cruise ships actually answer a few of the variables. The contagion can be dormant in a affected person for up to 14 days, I think many of the ships have surpassed that time frame since the first case and who knows how many passengers were infected prior to 1st cases being reported. If you research and follow up with these ships, it has not been full blown infection. They did quarantine, but that doesn't mean several were not infected prior to that. I personally thing the MSM blew it out of proportion and China saw an opportunity to jump in and push it to the limit we see today. It's so deep there is no turning back. I am in the overreaction group, but the fear has been planted and the only resolutions are the current actions.


I really cannot see now one can make a full assessment. Like Gary said, too many unknowns. One of the reasons the extra precautions are being made is that the medical community does not and admits that they do not know a lot of about this virus.

The mortality rate for the seasonal flu varies between around .01 to .02 percent in the US. So far this virus is at 1.5-2 percent. That is 100 times greater. So say that half the people in this country get it. Roughly 1 out of every 100 persons you know will die from it. Sound good?

I guess I sit on the other side of most on this site, as I am one that has a compromised immune system due to childhood cancer as well as risk due to all of my heart issues. I am not panicked, or doing anything irrational. We did buy some extra groceries yesterday and I am going to pick up a few more things today and then we will be set for the next 2-3 weeks easy. Right now I feel safe going about in public and being diligent in my hygiene practices. I am going to start limiting my exposure to the general public after today and plan to self-quarantine myself to Jacobsville once spring breakers come back, as they are sure to bring it back to the Keweenaw. Had a regularly scheduled follow up with my Dr yesterday and said my plan sound very good. He said my risk of complications from it is higher and I really need to be careful.

I must say that I am a little taken back by the selfishness of some, going about their day and not heeding anything that is asked of them. They probably feel THEY will get by just fine and most likely will. Unfortunately, their actions increases the risk that I and others will get it and could be in real trouble. All for what? A play date? Is everyone really so amped up that they cannot chill out for 2-3 weeks? And money...so you have a drop in income for a bit. Try owning your own business, happens all the time. If you run your business right, you will survive just fine. If you just collect a paycheck and cannot afford to be without income for a few weeks. God help you. You are living way beyond you means and it was going to catch up with you sooner or later.

I think back to "The Greatest Generation". The sacrifices these folks made is unbelievable. Many went without a meal that contained their typical elements for years. Folks grew "Victory Gardens" so that the troops could get the food they would have otherwise eaten. It was not about themselves, it was about survival for all. In my opinion, we are at the opposite end of the spectrum these days. Me, Me, Me. That is what will take this country down. Not a virus or a recession.

-John
 

SledTL

Active member
Somebody just wants to make Trump look bad and see the fall of our economy, some people don't want him back in office

That's my point though. It isn't people out to get him. Other countries are doing the same reactions. No we don't have to follow with the same knee jerk hoarding here, but c'mon quit smokin the grass if you think its fabricated for that reason.
 

DamageInc

Member
There is no cure, there is no vaccine. Most get better, about 3% die.

I'm wintering in San Diego, it's different than the Fox River Valley or Houghton. We have 500 cases, 11 have died, that's 2.2%. Kinda scary in a state with 40 million people.

No, you have 500 confirmed cases. There are likely thousands more that went undiagnosed, because they had mild symptoms and didn't seek treatment.

The mortality rate from this virus is not 3%.

And there is no cure for MOST viruses. This one is not unique.

- - - Updated - - -

There were some big differences with H1N1. They had a vaccine and piles of it sitting in the SNS. Distribution was already in place too. We still lost 12,000 people?

The H1N1 vaccine was not available until late 2019, after most of the deaths had occurred. The virus started in March of 2009, so it took about 9 months for the vaccine to be readily available. The vaccine for the Kung Flu could take more or less time; nobody knows for sure.
 

mrbb

Well-known member
ok slight off topic here, but does any of this stuff make anyone , wish we MADE most things again in the USA and didn;t import so many things we all use??
be more self sufficient so to speak??

after all passing laws and OUR standards in our OWN country, seems like a better route than relying on God know's what happens else where??


food for thought here?
 

Skylar

Super Moderator
Staff member
Back in December my boss was sick for 3 days. Flu like symptoms, never went to the doctor, well, 'cause it was the flu. Or was it the coronavirus?
 

dfattack

Well-known member
Totally agree with Euphoric and Skylar. What is unprecedented is the over reaction. Not disagreeing with what John said either. Common sense and courtesy needs to be part of our society, but to get to the point where businesses are being mandated to close is over board. My opinion the over reaction is going to cause more hardship that the virus to the majority of the country. I know...tell that to the people who died. I get it.
 
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DamageInc

Member
ok slight off topic here, but does any of this stuff make anyone , wish we MADE most things again in the USA and didn;t import so many things we all use??
be more self sufficient so to speak??

after all passing laws and OUR standards in our OWN country, seems like a better route than relying on God know's what happens else where??


food for thought here?

Hopefully this will be a wake-up call to people, that it's very dangerous to our national security to have a growing dependency on a Communist country that is hostile to our interests. It's absolute insanity. But I won't hold my breath.
 
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