Measured frustration

[m8man]

Why are there not signs posting legal off-trail riding areas and maps showing where they are? I mean, there are a number of riders on this site that ride off trail, but the locations are held close to the vest. (I realize some people ride on private lands with the owner's permission.) Think about it, if people know where they can legally ride off trail, then they will be less inclined to trespass elsewhere. Don't just yell at someone, educate them by showing them where they can ride legally.



I have always found the "Stay on Trail or Stay Home" signs to be stupid. Here we tout how welcoming, helpful and civic minded of a group sledders are and we have a rude sign like this on the trails?

As far as keeping the sledders between the signs, keep the trails smooth 24/7 and they will stay between the signs.

Not the landowners job to educate violators. What a joke. I always like it when people from out of the area think they know how the area should work. In the 70’s and 80’s lots more respect to landowners, precisely the reason I gave up the sport.

m8man

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The purpose of that sign is for people with your attitude. The sign would not have been created if it wasn't necessary. Like the signs on farm equipment that tell you were to not to stick anything you value. Because someone did it. Caught my 13 year old running a chopper box this summer with the pto shaft guards off (for those of you that don't know that's the drive shift that spins at extremely high speeds and if lucky all you do is loose a limb.). Maybe some of you think his punishment should have ended at yelling. He would have just ignored me. If you think I'm a hard parent fine, but if I'd have gone on any of my neighbors property when I was young I'd have gotten my butt tanned. Plus when your one neighbor thinks the world is ending, is always armed, and sets bear traps to catch people you learn to respect property rights.

My 19 year old got a job this summer after graduating high school and has been promoted twice. I got a call from his supervisor thanking me for raising such a prompt and pleasant young man. I asked if calling the parent was normal. His response was the company hired 65 people in three months. 5 are left. Of the 5 the only one that has shown up for work on time except for the one day he called in sick because he was violently throwing up. He'd gotten food poisoning. We as parents are doing something wrong if we are failing our youth like this. They are not prepared to be responsible and it affects everything from showing up to work, to respecting property owners.

Awesome and good job! Respect is created with leading by example.

m8man

 

[xsledder]

And the bashing begins! I will response to each bash separately and at my own choosing.

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Is that you Midwest Player?

I can assure you I am not Midwest Player. I have other posted on this site that will prove it. You can look for my posts on your own time.

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this is attitude is exactly what gets trails closed
come on man

What makes you think I was for trespassing with my post? You read your own biases in my post.

 

[Deleted member 10829]

Our club just lost another trail over the weekend due to riding off the trail. This is just part of the issue at this location. It has been going on for years and the landowner has had enough. I was on the phone with him yesterday and got an earful.



Later in the day, he stopped a couple of riders for riding off the trail and had a chat with them. They just took off across the road, jumped into the ditch and into a private field (see pic below), and sped away. It's unbelievable!!

 

[kip]

Good for you workhardplayhard. A little tough love isn't a bad thing. Mom and Dad won't be around someday and our kids need to be strong mentally.

 

[xsledder]

10 minutes on the internet will tell you where one can ride off trail legally. It's not the snowmobile clubs responsibility to tell people where it's legal to ride off trail!

It is not the snowmobile clubs responsibility to tell be where to park and unload, but they do. Why not be more accommodating to your patrons? And before you get all high and mighty on me. Yes, I belong to a club. Yes, I am an officer in a club. Yes, I mark trails for the club. Yes, I get landowners permission for a club. So, go ahead and get all high and mighty.

 

[xsledder]

The purpose of that sign is for people with your attitude. The sign would not have been created if it wasn't necessary. Like the signs on farm equipment that tell you were to not to stick anything you value. Because someone did it. Caught my 13 year old running a chopper box this summer with the pto shaft guards off (for those of you that don't know that's the drive shift that spins at extremely high speeds and if lucky all you do is loose a limb.). Maybe some of you think his punishment should have ended at yelling. He would have just ignored me. If you think I'm a hard parent fine, but if I'd have gone on any of my neighbors property when I was young I'd have gotten my butt tanned. Plus when your one neighbor thinks the world is ending, is always armed, and sets bear traps to catch people you learn to respect property rights.

My 19 year old got a job this summer after graduating high school and has been promoted twice. I got a call from his supervisor thanking me for raising such a prompt and pleasant young man. I asked if calling the parent was normal. His response was the company hired 65 people in three months. 5 are left. Of the 5 the only one that has shown up for work on time except for the one day he called in sick because he was violently throwing up. He'd gotten food poisoning. We as parents are doing something wrong if we are failing our youth like this. They are not prepared to be responsible and it affects everything from showing up to work, to respecting property owners.

My attitude??? What do you know of my attitude??? Beside the rest of the meaningless gibberish in your post, what was your point??? I just think that if we want to attract more people in to the sport, signs like these don't help. Apparently I didn't communicate that very well to you. I will try to be more exacting next time.

 

[xsledder]

Not the landowners job to educate violators. What a joke. I always like it when people from out of the area think they know how the area should work. In the 70’s and 80’s lots more respect to landowners, precisely the reason I gave up the sport.

m8man

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Awesome and good job! Respect is created with leading by example.

m8man

Where did I say it was the landowners responsibility??? You read your own biases into my comment. Also, where am I telling the area how to work. It was purely a suggestion. I mean, what is currently done by ranting (and I am not saying you cannot rant) and telling everyone to not trespass is not working. This has been going on for years. If someone see a track, they will go. We have the same trespassing issues here. So, unless you are willing to stand guard 24/7 and watch for every trespasser, it might be time to look for a different solution. Again, not claiming to know it all, just providing a suggestion.

Here is a suggestion for wireburnguy. Install some lath and survey flagging tape to make it look like a hazard. For some reason, at least down by us, that seems to curtail it.

 

[mrbb]

I really feel your pain, only I had it year round with trespassers on foot, atv's motorcycle bikes and so on
no amount of NO trespassing signs even slowed them down and at one point I had a posted sign every 15-20 ft around a 3+ mile border on the property!
costs a ton of money to do so and folks tore them down as if they were free!
from MY experience, trespassing is not just an entitled deal, its also TAUGHT thing by family members
I couldn;t tell you how many times I caught fathers.sons, daughters even grand fathers all together in groups trespassing and when confronted, they all got belligerent really fast claiming they had the RIGHT to be there due to they lived close by and USED to come on property yrs ago when others owned it and felt they still had the RIGHT TO!

and to be honest here, in PA< where trespassing laws are so LAX,
I have also caught Law enforcement officers trespassing, game dept workers OFF duty!
you name the career I caught them
used to catch over a 70+ people every yr,
for years
and ALWAYS NEW PEOPLE, as in PA< if you can prove you caught them once, you can use what is called criminal trespass charges the SECOND time which is a felony charge, and that seemed to keep them from coming back

BUT when a place has a draw to it, be it what ever snow, deer, fishing trails or??
you end up with an endless supply of new trespassers!

it just got to the point I gave up and moved on, there was NO ending them, the STATE law's are way too lax to give a crap to help land owners in this situation IMO
they all play a game of pass the buck when you call them for help
local cops say call state cops, state cops tell you in hunting season or like to call game dept, game dept tells you call local cops,
big circle jerk game here in PA
due to most of these folks in law enforcement DON"T CARE, they again feel laws are silly and its NOT REALLY that big a deal, as its NOT happening to THEM!

I am personal friends with many land owners across the usa, and in states with VERY strong laws on trespassing, its a different world
places laws are lax, things run wild with trespassing!


folks that DON"T own land and have the problem NEVER know what its like(which is the majority of folks)
so, things are LOW on any plans to change

IMO< I miss the days when parents HIT there kids to teach them right and wrong!
I really think many people today are missing traits that a good a$$ whooping taught!
there is a very serious LACK of consequences anymore for folks actions, so so few care about about others, knowing so little comes from them doing wrong!


Best Advice I can give to OP here
is pester your local cops as hard as you can for help, and IF you catch anyone, Prosecute them FULLY
words does travel if your willing to back it up by following thru
it SUCKS, it ends up costing you $$ and time
but IT will slow things down SOME WHAT!
and ADD as many camera's as you can
as folks that DO get fined, can be spiteful!
can help you id folks better too in court, Judges these days like video's of folks doing wrong, makes there jobs easier!

 

[wireburnguy]

Seems online discussions always spiral downward. Please stop bickering with each other.

I once was part of this community, I reached out yesterday because I know there are many good people here. This problem is not new for any of us however it does appear that it is becoming more widespread. Leaving the trail has always been a sore spot for landowners here, my situation here in town once was occasional but based on the last week, it is a serious issue now. I am no where near a trail, a field or anything...just the end of main street with a large yard.

I posted this while I was at work yesterday. When I arrived at home, my drive was as well traveled as any trail out there. Many, many sleds had passed over it during the day (thru the orange cones). I was home for about 2 hrs yesterday before I left again, I was amazed at what took place.

I decided to move my plow truck to block the drive and within minutes 3 sleds came thru. You can clearly see the cone-barricade as you approach as well as the truck blocking the path. One sled went around the truck while the others did a u-turn. I saw 3 more sleds sitting in the public parking lot next door, doing nothing wrong...at first. The streets were bare blacktop and all 3 sleds left via a small Village owned park, diving right part way down the sidewalk and then across the park itself. Sled tracks in the 6' space between my truck and garage this morning. You don't drive across parks!

This isn't the adrenaline driven thrill seeker wandering around town looking for action, I suspect it may be many good folks like you just exploring and wandering around. The thrill seekers need you to set them straight. Cruising around town on your sleds probably isn't a harmless activity, just something to think about. Go to your destination on the most direct route...and enjoy.

If things remain at this pace at my house this year, I am going to get angrier by the week.

 

[gary_in_neenah]

Last year a small town near us had a problem with snowmobiles tearing up the city parks early in the season. The local club closed down all trails through town and the police enforced it.

 

[wireburnguy]

I really feel your pain, only I had it year round with trespassers on foot, atv's motorcycle bikes and so on
no amount of NO trespassing signs even slowed them down and at one point I had a posted sign every 15-20 ft around a 3+ mile border on the property!
costs a ton of money to do so and folks tore them down as if they were free!
from MY experience, trespassing is not just an entitled deal, its also TAUGHT thing by family members
I couldn;t tell you how many times I caught fathers.sons, daughters even grand fathers all together in groups trespassing and when confronted, they all got belligerent really fast claiming they had the RIGHT to be there due to they lived close by and USED to come on property yrs ago when others owned it and felt they still had the RIGHT TO!

and to be honest here, in PA< where trespassing laws are so LAX,
I have also caught Law enforcement officers trespassing, game dept workers OFF duty!
you name the career I caught them
used to catch over a 70+ people every yr,
for years
and ALWAYS NEW PEOPLE, as in PA< if you can prove you caught them once, you can use what is called criminal trespass charges the SECOND time which is a felony charge, and that seemed to keep them from coming back

BUT when a place has a draw to it, be it what ever snow, deer, fishing trails or??
you end up with an endless supply of new trespassers!

it just got to the point I gave up and moved on, there was NO ending them, the STATE law's are way too lax to give a crap to help land owners in this situation IMO
they all play a game of pass the buck when you call them for help
local cops say call state cops, state cops tell you in hunting season or like to call game dept, game dept tells you call local cops,
big circle jerk game here in PA
due to most of these folks in law enforcement DON"T CARE, they again feel laws are silly and its NOT REALLY that big a deal, as its NOT happening to THEM!

I am personal friends with many land owners across the usa, and in states with VERY strong laws on trespassing, its a different world
places laws are lax, things run wild with trespassing!


folks that DON"T own land and have the problem NEVER know what its like(which is the majority of folks)
so, things are LOW on any plans to change

IMO< I miss the days when parents HIT there kids to teach them right and wrong!
I really think many people today are missing traits that a good a$$ whooping taught!
there is a very serious LACK of consequences anymore for folks actions, so so few care about about others, knowing so little comes from them doing wrong!


Best Advice I can give to OP here
is pester your local cops as hard as you can for help, and IF you catch anyone, Prosecute them FULLY
words does travel if your willing to back it up by following thru
it SUCKS, it ends up costing you $$ and time
but IT will slow things down SOME WHAT!
and ADD as many camera's as you can
as folks that DO get fined, can be spiteful!
can help you id folks better too in court, Judges these days like video's of folks doing wrong, makes there jobs easier!

In the summer we have a steady flow of what you describe. My yard is waterfront with a very nice view, locals and tourists alike believe their desire to see is as important as the deed showing I own it People having picnics in my yard, helping themselves to my garden and looking around my garage...I have seen it all.

There once was public access along the waters edge that has been barricaded and closed by the Village. Jump the gate, break your nose falling...then threaten to sue me....seen it all.

The summer traffic is different. First, they are all on foot and easy to confront (when I am there to see it). Second, there is a lure...the water. In the winter there is nothing to see.

 

[eagle1]

I think you guys are mis understanding what Xsledder was getting at. Those signs do nothing.....people that "get it" ride between the signs.....people that don't could care less how many signs you pound in ground.

 

[Stench]

Forgive me here.... I picked up a MI tag last season and plan to again this year, but don't recall noticing if MI requires registration decals on your hoods. Here in MN, we have very defined requirements on our registration numbers. Easily identified. All I recall about MI was I needed to place my tag above the headlight.


I also liken this behavior to cars and trucks doing burnouts or hot rodding..... People doing stupid things, feeling laws or rules don't apply to them, or they won't get caught..... or even trying to provoke people or authority to engage in a conflict or chase.

Place a web cam facing the area you are describing, capture images of the offenders, send it to the authorities.


Sorry! First time posting an image.... I'll go back and reread instructions....

 

[dothedoo]

And the bashing begins! I will response to each bash separately and at my own choosing.

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I can assure you I am not Midwest Player. I have other posted on this site that will prove it. You can look for my posts on your own time.

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What makes you think I was for trespassing with my post? You read your own biases in my post.

Ha....lol. It was sarcasm. I didn't actually think you were MP. He says some really ignorant things, and well, your comment was right there.

 

[Stench]

And I know I can relate to the comment about sleds or technology are allowing sleds to go anywhere..... as you can see in the image above, I ride a short track. My biggest fear, especially riding in the Yoop, is leaving the trail.

 

[eagle1]

Wireburnguy- I think you should try talk to few sledders and see what the attraction is.....locals cutting thru, people looking for something on gps, or lost.
I don't know...I know I've come to many of towns that show snowmobile route and then nothing else. Maybe it is just disrespect....but I hate to believe that.

 

[whitedust]

Wireburnguy I had the same problem with my last waterfront property in the Northwoods. I had 2 large tabletop rocks at the top of my driveway that people constantly sat on. I didn’t mind the rock sitting so much a good 400’ away. Those who drove down my driveway circled out when they saw me , others would pull up park look at the lake all while my wife was cooking in the kitchen. I would have go out ask what are you doing here? Most were polite and just wanted to see the water. I would say I live here and would prefer if you would not come on my private property. All started up their trucks and left. This happened so many times I lost count. I put private property signs at the top of the drive that didn’t help much. Finally out of frustration I roped off my driveway entrance. A total pita for me to put up and take down as I went about my business. The rope totally worked cars and foot traffic stopped. After about 3 years people got the message the private property signs stayed but the rope stayed coiled on a large tree everyone stayed out. Unfortunately I think your method to success is to totally seal people off with tape or ropes and put up private property signs. It will take time for people to get the message but in time they will. Good luck I feel your pain.

 

[Skylar]

It is not the snowmobile clubs responsibility to tell be where to park and unload, but they do. Why not be more accommodating to your patrons? And before you get all high and mighty on me. Yes, I belong to a club. Yes, I am an officer in a club. Yes, I mark trails for the club. Yes, I get landowners permission for a club. So, go ahead and get all high and mighty.

I am not going to get high and mighty, no need too. I said what I had to say.

 

[xsledder]

Pretty funny. I made one post on this subject that did not condone trespassing and one sentence of sarcasm about grooming trails 24/7 if you want people to stay between the signs and all the simpletons on this site came out. Now I know who you are.

 

[pclark]

And we all had hoped that 2021 would bring better things to all.........