When people have to travel to find snow, they ride on all of it they can find, private or public. It's just what happens when people ride in unfamiliar territory. It might lighten up IF the rest of the country would ever get rideable snow....IF.... Only the locals can stop it, if they are up for confrontation, which most are not, and understandably so.....too many jackwagons out there
omg
- Thread starter POLARISDAN
- Start date
snobuilder
Well-known member
Way different.
I see two problems here.
- Trespassing:
I'm sure there are quite a few folks with a:
"Trespassing? So what, it's only snow! What harm am I doing, crushing your f'n snow?"
attitude. It's just seen as different than, for example "hunting while trespassing".
Stoopid? Sure, but I'm sure that's a big part of it.
x - Marked, designated off-trail areas:
The big problem with any such plan is the issue of landowner liability.
Anyone who invites (by deliberate signage) any kind of public access/activity on their land is opening themselves up to lawsuit(s) in the event of any death or injury that may occur on any property marked/designated for such (e.g. "off-trail" use by snowmobile) permitted use.
Public liability insurance to cover such permitted/invited activity would not be cheap. And anyone injured while trespassing would have a much weaker prospect of winning such a lawsuit — not that some of 'em wouldn't try in spite of that.
Bottom line: Any landowner who might otherwise be open to such use of their land would be a fool to ignore these liability implications. And if they do contemplate that, they'll just decide it ain't worth it.
snobuilder
Well-known member
Does anyone posting alla these strong feelings in this tread have skin in the game or just supposing as if?
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I have a small parcel and the trail runs through a corner of it.
I won't pitch a fit when sleds cut the corner a bit.
No evidence of it once the snow melts.
No harm at all. Will I plant small precious little pines in the way and dare some sledder to crush them?....ummm, no....I'm not a dumbass like that.
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I have a small parcel and the trail runs through a corner of it.
I won't pitch a fit when sleds cut the corner a bit.
No evidence of it once the snow melts.
No harm at all. Will I plant small precious little pines in the way and dare some sledder to crush them?....ummm, no....I'm not a dumbass like that.
snobuilder
Well-known member
Dramadan
Can we add loud obnoxious pipes to this thread??
Was leaving the Loading Zone in Lake Lyndon last night and some guy on a 01 Yamaha SX700 with triple pipes came blasting into the parking lot blipping the throttle and lastly spun a WOT donut in the parking lot..F-ing idiot!
Oh...and thanks to the guy outside room 119's window at the Ramada in Houghton Saturday around 2AM doing a burn-out with his piped Polaris..ugh..
Was leaving the Loading Zone in Lake Lyndon last night and some guy on a 01 Yamaha SX700 with triple pipes came blasting into the parking lot blipping the throttle and lastly spun a WOT donut in the parking lot..F-ing idiot!
Oh...and thanks to the guy outside room 119's window at the Ramada in Houghton Saturday around 2AM doing a burn-out with his piped Polaris..ugh..
skidoolouie
Member
Wow what some people complain about. Come to Chicago for a day anything goes, the last thing we worry about is trespassing.
favoritos
Well-known member
I was stopped for riding out of town on the shoulder of the ditch beside the highway. No trails close, but I wondered how I was going to get back. It is surprising that I got stopped taking the only feasible route without encroaching on private property.
It is a pet peeve of mine when I see tracks going off into the woods right beside the "Stay on Trail" signs. I always respect those signs.
It is a pet peeve of mine when I see tracks going off into the woods right beside the "Stay on Trail" signs. I always respect those signs.
yamadooed
Active member
The Billy Nickels trail from the firesteel to the skeeter area seems to be riddled with gobs of technicolor two strokes jumping on and off the trail... Its nice to ride up on em going 5 mph clog'n up both sides of the trail with their 3" paddles paddle blip'n roost after they jump back on trail...
scoot
Member
Yeah, like threatening someone with bodily harm for not respecting the chairs used to keep others off a 9' by 20' piece of pavement that they shoveled and dont even own? You live in Chicago and you dont have a fence? I'll bet you do. I lived in Chicago most of my life. Sorry if I dont use that as a measurement of everyone else's life experiences.
I guess compared to the torturing of a special need man...
Was up in the UP for three days last week, midweek, and tracks everywhere. Several instances where signs read Stay on trail, and boom, a meadow is carved up. And, how many times guys were crossing 3 and other trails without hestitation. Just part of the UP riding experience these days, good or bad.
Supertrax this month has a good article about how the snowmobiling world is changing, and how Freeriders need to be incorporated into the mix, from a trail and landowner perspective. Agree, but not sure how that will get done, but something needs to happen. Designated areas, and if you get there early, you get all of the good powder? I have enjoyed "backcountry" and "Freeriding" out west for years, and enjoy it when I am there. Still a trail rider at heart, but the manufacturers, businesses, and other establishments all over the country are all riding the Freerider craze, and you cannot blame them, so things will get worse before they get better. That is reality.
Supertrax this month has a good article about how the snowmobiling world is changing, and how Freeriders need to be incorporated into the mix, from a trail and landowner perspective. Agree, but not sure how that will get done, but something needs to happen. Designated areas, and if you get there early, you get all of the good powder? I have enjoyed "backcountry" and "Freeriding" out west for years, and enjoy it when I am there. Still a trail rider at heart, but the manufacturers, businesses, and other establishments all over the country are all riding the Freerider craze, and you cannot blame them, so things will get worse before they get better. That is reality.
POLARISDAN
New member
very,very well said..thank you
POLARISDAN
New member
ur smokin crack dude if u think trespassing is OK for this sport..ur either a tresspasser urself or just plain fkn ignorant
and we r not talking cutting a corner here on ur little part of the world..we are talking str8 out over the top all over somebodys land tresspassin
skidoolouie
Member
yea I hear you not everyone can experience city life we do. Fence is just to keep dog in yard. People on sleds trespassing are not sleeping overnight but passing thur having fun. Could be a lot worse.
T
Tracker
Guest
X2 TSG
and fellas....there is a WAY TO CURE ALL THIS....I ride out west also....and its not a big problem like you guys are describing....and the answer is 2 part....one is there should be trails everywhere rarely groomed with 4 foot moguls on them.....this is how it is out west.....and if you wanna try ricky style, have at it, cause ya gonna learn a lot....then the other part....is just like out west....the landowners then ALLOW ALL SLEDS ON THEIR LANDS....so you go slow on the trail to an area.....then have at that area....its hills out there....but here it could be moguled up trail to the fields....and everyone tears around happily....just an idea but the people that own land in Midwest are 50 times more anul than other people since the population is larger and much more crud has happened to them....also out west....you crash....you crash....there aint no one to sue....even if its on their land....you don't hear sueing out west because you messed....just a thought
eagle1
Well-known member
The only thing surprising about this ..........Is people are still surprised by it.
Look at every magazine, video, manufacturers, dealers, ect, ect.... Basically promoting how great and fun it is. Sleds flying thru air, deep powder, 155" plus track machines, big lug tracks. I mean really, do we expect they're gonna putt putt down the trail after being told how great there machine is off trail?
Not saying it's right ...Just saying
Not sure what solution is. But if truly a problem area then orange snow fences and or signs to at least make honest ones aware. I know shouldn't have to but...
Look at every magazine, video, manufacturers, dealers, ect, ect.... Basically promoting how great and fun it is. Sleds flying thru air, deep powder, 155" plus track machines, big lug tracks. I mean really, do we expect they're gonna putt putt down the trail after being told how great there machine is off trail?
Not saying it's right ...Just saying
Not sure what solution is. But if truly a problem area then orange snow fences and or signs to at least make honest ones aware. I know shouldn't have to but...
snobuilder
Well-known member
I'll ignore your dimwitted attack on me... cuz, I kinda like you.
Gotta ask you this, do you enjoy riding anymore or just do it to observe and complain about the rest of your fellow sledders that you perceive are not as perfect as you and then get on here and comiserate with other grumps?
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Seriously how do you keep from crashing with your head on a pivot checking out alla the wrong doings?
I'll bet I could start a tread about ppl not parking properly outside a pitstops, and 50 ppl would post how great they park but others don't ....LOL. .
..fok...it's raining
I'll add a little more here
and again, this is a loaded topic with all GUESSING as we will never stop anything really on words on a forum, people do what people WANT today and I , "I" feel less people today care about OTHERS, its a BIG all ABOUT "ME" world today
as for do I have a dog in the fight or just??
yes I have land (NOT in the UP, but here in PA)
I help care take for a lot of other lands as well here
Problems many don't see AFTER the snow melts OR before the snow melts is MANY farms in my area grow and plant winter wheat, and it can get damaged from folks riding on it, in a few ways, from folks digging down to dirt in low snow, or just the fact, they pack the snow down and it then takes a LOT longer for it go/melt, and allow the crops to grow come spring time, YIELDS< mean MONEY to farmers, lower the yield, less money they make
SO yes 100% it can cost land owners a LOT of cash real easy
THIS alone is a big difference from OUT WEST as to farm lands
OUR west the meadows we ride in are , NOT really effected by sleds
YES land damage CAN happen, but its NOT the same as on farm land
as for running over tree's
that can cause damage and set back timbering plans REAL far to a land owners long term plans?
again costing them a lot of $$$
NOW , STATE Federal lands,
this is an area I feel ALL snowmobile area's should be well marked and mapped on WHERE you CAN and CANNOT
and think MOST places it is, or can be found with a little effort on the user's parts
as all them have phone numbers you can call and ASK up to date information
as the area's tend to stay the same yr after yr, BUT YES 100% some times area's get closed or opened
NOW Private lands
NO< I see NO reason a land owner SHOULD have maps drawn up showing there land of what area's are or are NOT open, UNLESS that land owner wishes to do so, it should ONLY be there choice
if they want this out there in maps and such
and main reason is, liability , and property values, and well, the land owner might be OK with a few guys on there land tearing up there fields, but don't want herds of folks, and leave the open play area's to those willing to go the extra mile to ASK and find them!
NEXT< they MIGHT not want folks there next yr, as they rotate crops, or, have issue's with things
ONCE a map is printed, it ends up lasting a LOT longer than a land owner might want to, or if property sells, or?? many reasons
its PRIVATE LAND, they poaid for, HOW they wish it to be used and listed, is THERE choice and should be
NOW Out west, YES many more acres of public lands are OPEN, YES< but when you look at the size of lands many have out there as to more east coast, I will bet many DON"T have folks riding up top there doors and homes and buildings
as folks out there have two things
ONE respect for them land owners and DON"T want to loose there play area's
so they stay far from homes and disrupting the owners
and TWO< they also have millions of acres to ride in so, NO need to ride so close to homes and such!
its a different world out there
there MAIN game is OFF trail, yet have tons of trails as well
east coast its MORE about trails and only the past 10 yrs that the OFF trail is coming alive as it has, and honestly, that because sleds have gotten better at OFF trail, and still can do OK on trails
but the true name of the game is simple
DON"T know, DON"T ride
its simple, but so many people today sure seem to struggle with simple things today!
we loose more land and places to go all the time from just simple LACK of respect and common sense
lead by example folks, stay on trail unless your 110 % positive its LEGAL and allowed
once damage is done, its DONE
and again, this is a loaded topic with all GUESSING as we will never stop anything really on words on a forum, people do what people WANT today and I , "I" feel less people today care about OTHERS, its a BIG all ABOUT "ME" world today
as for do I have a dog in the fight or just??
yes I have land (NOT in the UP, but here in PA)
I help care take for a lot of other lands as well here
Problems many don't see AFTER the snow melts OR before the snow melts is MANY farms in my area grow and plant winter wheat, and it can get damaged from folks riding on it, in a few ways, from folks digging down to dirt in low snow, or just the fact, they pack the snow down and it then takes a LOT longer for it go/melt, and allow the crops to grow come spring time, YIELDS< mean MONEY to farmers, lower the yield, less money they make
SO yes 100% it can cost land owners a LOT of cash real easy
THIS alone is a big difference from OUT WEST as to farm lands
OUR west the meadows we ride in are , NOT really effected by sleds
YES land damage CAN happen, but its NOT the same as on farm land
as for running over tree's
that can cause damage and set back timbering plans REAL far to a land owners long term plans?
again costing them a lot of $$$
NOW , STATE Federal lands,
this is an area I feel ALL snowmobile area's should be well marked and mapped on WHERE you CAN and CANNOT
and think MOST places it is, or can be found with a little effort on the user's parts
as all them have phone numbers you can call and ASK up to date information
as the area's tend to stay the same yr after yr, BUT YES 100% some times area's get closed or opened
NOW Private lands
NO< I see NO reason a land owner SHOULD have maps drawn up showing there land of what area's are or are NOT open, UNLESS that land owner wishes to do so, it should ONLY be there choice
if they want this out there in maps and such
and main reason is, liability , and property values, and well, the land owner might be OK with a few guys on there land tearing up there fields, but don't want herds of folks, and leave the open play area's to those willing to go the extra mile to ASK and find them!
NEXT< they MIGHT not want folks there next yr, as they rotate crops, or, have issue's with things
ONCE a map is printed, it ends up lasting a LOT longer than a land owner might want to, or if property sells, or?? many reasons
its PRIVATE LAND, they poaid for, HOW they wish it to be used and listed, is THERE choice and should be
NOW Out west, YES many more acres of public lands are OPEN, YES< but when you look at the size of lands many have out there as to more east coast, I will bet many DON"T have folks riding up top there doors and homes and buildings
as folks out there have two things
ONE respect for them land owners and DON"T want to loose there play area's
so they stay far from homes and disrupting the owners
and TWO< they also have millions of acres to ride in so, NO need to ride so close to homes and such!
its a different world out there
there MAIN game is OFF trail, yet have tons of trails as well
east coast its MORE about trails and only the past 10 yrs that the OFF trail is coming alive as it has, and honestly, that because sleds have gotten better at OFF trail, and still can do OK on trails
but the true name of the game is simple
DON"T know, DON"T ride
its simple, but so many people today sure seem to struggle with simple things today!
we loose more land and places to go all the time from just simple LACK of respect and common sense
lead by example folks, stay on trail unless your 110 % positive its LEGAL and allowed
once damage is done, its DONE