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snobuilder

Well-known member
Down here we run trails, with permission, through or around winter wheat and will promise any land owner to pay for crop $ loss. In 15 years that I am aware of no claims have been turned in.

When approaching a land owner for permission to cross, all of the facts are laid out. We also promise to pay for any problems and damage that can be shown proof of....again no claims in all the years I have been involved.
Lets cut the drama and get back to enjoying snowmobiling.
 

byr 13

Member
The only thing surprising about this ..........Is people are still surprised by it.
Look at every magazine, video, manufacturers, dealers, ect, ect.... Basically promoting how great and fun it is. Sleds flying thru air, deep powder, 155" plus track machines, big lug tracks. I mean really, do we expect they're gonna putt putt down the trail after being told how great there machine is off trail?
Not saying it's right ...Just saying
Not sure what solution is. But if truly a problem area then orange snow fences and or signs to at least make honest ones aware. I know shouldn't have to but...
true
 

mrbb

Well-known member
Down here we run trails, with permission, through or around winter wheat and will promise any land owner to pay for crop $ loss. In 15 years that I am aware of no claims have been turned in.

When approaching a land owner for permission to cross, all of the facts are laid out. We also promise to pay for any problems and damage that can be shown proof of....again no claims in all the years I have been involved.
Lets cut the drama and get back to enjoying snowmobiling.
there is a BIG difference in running across a winter wheat field and a WHOLE Bunch of sleds using the whole field as a play area?
NOT drama, facts in my area, its got trails and land access closed over the yrs here!
 

POLARISDAN

New member
I'll ignore your dimwitted attack on me... cuz, I kinda like you.

Gotta ask you this, do you enjoy riding anymore or just do it to observe and complain about the rest of your fellow sledders that you perceive are not as perfect as you and then get on here and comiserate with other grumps?

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Seriously how do you keep from crashing with your head on a pivot checking out alla the wrong doings?

I'll bet I could start a tread about ppl not parking properly outside a pitstops, and 50 ppl would post how great they park but others don't ....LOL. .
..fok...it's raining

u like me..how sweet..:cool:

just to clear this UP, if u ever met me ud find im the farthest thing from a GRUMP..as anybody here who rides with me will attest..

the reason i post this kind of stuff is that if it deters one person, just one, from trespassing, it will have been worth it..

as the reponses are heavy, obviously alot of people feel this way..

these trails are important to me, alot of work went into getting that roseau trail open, and all it takes is these idiots to get it removed..

sorry u dont see it that way..it seems that u think its just harmless fun..of which i strongly disagree
 

snobuilder

Well-known member
No one can predict what a landowner will do from year to year. Depending on the tract of land, all aspects of worse case scenarios such as seeing tracks off the trail should be included in the discussion when getting permission to cross. If tracked up snow next to the trail (that leave when snow melts) is not acceptable then the landowner can decide right then and there what there answer is.

If a landowner for example says yes run your trail in between these 2 rows of seedlings, or this field of winter wheat, there might be a problem if not cordoned off properly.

An explanation of reparations if damage does occur also needs to be in place.
 

slimcake

Well-known member
Yep this is snobuilders perfect world. Just ask him.... Do you belong to a club and/or take care of trails? Do you work with landowners to see how it actually works?????? It is getting harder and harder to keep access just as more and more people trespass. Why is that so hard to understand. We had to close 2 trails here at home this year because of trespassing. Polaris Dan is good chit. You are on the other end of that pole....
 
T

Tracker

Guest
Problems many don't see AFTER the snow melts OR before the snow melts is MANY farms in my area grow and plant winter wheat, and it can get damaged from folks riding on it, in a few ways, from folks digging down to dirt in low snow, or just the fact, they pack the snow down and it then takes a LOT longer for it go/melt, and allow the crops to grow come spring time, YIELDS< mean MONEY to farmers, lower the yield, less money they make
SO yes 100% it can cost land owners a LOT of cash real easy

MRBB....I gotta ask......go ask the farmer that has the wheat field that sleds go on...I will bet if you ask him without stating the sled thing.....how have nyour winter wheat crops been these last years.....he'll say not bad....then ask has there been damaged crops or did the field produce ok....he'll say not bad it all came up rather nicely....I think i'll plant again next year too....I have never heard of one instance of damage to crops from sleds after the harvest....but yet this misconception is carried on....just curious if ya actually asked em.....and if there is....what and how much of the field did not recover.....the entire field recovered why? that's what I hear.....the few that do say they have damage....when ya press em you find out....well I just don't like em, but I am planting wheat again....let us know
 
G

G

Guest
MRBB....I gotta ask......go ask the farmer that has the wheat field that sleds go on...I will bet if you ask him without stating the sled thing.....how have nyour winter wheat crops been these last years.....he'll say not bad....then ask has there been damaged crops or did the field produce ok....he'll say not bad it all came up rather nicely....I think i'll plant again next year too....I have never heard of one instance of damage to crops from sleds after the harvest....but yet this misconception is carried on....just curious if ya actually asked em.....and if there is....what and how much of the field did not recover.....the entire field recovered why? that's what I hear.....the few that do say they have damage....when ya press em you find out....well I just don't like em, but I am planting wheat again....let us know

Wrong this time Tracker. Winter wheat is fragile. You cannot run sleds over it and expect it to survive. As tight as commodity prices are farmers cannot afford to have ANY damage. The farmers around here that grow winter wheat do not seed it by the snowmobile trails. Whether is is snow compaction or actual spinning and digging up the crop you should NEVER ride on winter wheat. For any reason. Ever.
 

slimcake

Well-known member
Alfalfa is the same way. If you break it off when its froze its dead. Lots of dairy farms in my neck of the woods. We would have to put snow fence up to keep the idiots on the trail around alfalfa fields....
 
T

Tracker

Guest
Wrong this time Tracker. Winter wheat is fragile. You cannot run sleds over it and expect it to survive. As tight as commodity prices are farmers cannot afford to have ANY damage. The farmers around here that grow winter wheat do not seed it by the snowmobile trails. Whether is is snow compaction or actual spinning and digging up the crop you should NEVER ride on winter wheat. For any reason. Ever.

and you actually asked the farmer that your referring this info to us????? no....you passed it on....go ask any one of them if there crop was bad....no. it all came up is what you hear....if it did destroy as it always told.....would they be planting it year after year after year?????? its a common falicy IMO...cause that's all we have to ride on...legally....and not one framer has ever complained....and theres tracks everywhere....and the trails go thru them...and theres no stay off the winter wheat signs....well there's a few but not many....one I know always let us run back and forth on a hill to jump....until someone hit a huge boulder....then the winter wheat signs went up...but it wasn't the wheat

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Alfalfa is the same way. If you break it off when its froze its dead. Lots of dairy farms in my neck of the woods. We would have to put snow fence up to keep the idiots on the trail around alfalfa fields....

i'll ask around....I know ALOT of farmers...alfalfa I am not sure of and those fields are rare around here but i'll check
 
G

G

Guest
Funny you should ask. In addition to being my neighbor I have known this farmer all my life. We are on the township board together. This is a small farming community and everybody knows each other. It is 'Common Knowledge' that you don't ride on seeded fields in the winter. If it does happen it is never locals. And no, there is no insurance for acts of stupidity.
 

ridindirty800

Active member
Funny you should ask. In addition to being my neighbor I have known this farmer all my life. We are on the township board together. This is a small farming community and everybody knows each other. It is 'Common Knowledge' that you don't ride on seeded fields in the winter. If it does happen it is never locals. And no, there is no insurance for acts of stupidity.

Many of trails in S. Wisconsin go on Winter Wheat fields. Never Have i had farmer say no trail this year because I planted winter wheat? With that said we try to avoid the field as much as possible but many times you have to go right through it, and I have watched were the trail was in the spring and did not notice any effects from the trail. Not saying it does not happen just reporting what I see. Our county does offer no questions asked crop damage money that we remind all the landowners and to my knowledge no farmer has ever called and asked for any, even if its stupid guys going off trail we cover it.
 

90s

New member
local law enforcement & the dnr have to start writing citations for off trail riding where it is not legal. easements are to hard to get & to easily lost. once lost, usually end of trail forever.
 

snobuilder

Well-known member
Wrong this time Tracker. Winter wheat is fragile. You cannot run sleds over it and expect it to survive. As tight as commodity prices are farmers cannot afford to have ANY damage. The farmers around here that grow winter wheat do not seed it by the snowmobile trails. Whether is is snow compaction or actual spinning and digging up the crop you should NEVER ride on winter wheat. For any reason. Ever.

Wrong, I personally ran a trail directly over winter wheat with permission of course....I also drive by the same track 5 days a week and was able to see it from planting to combining.
Absolutely no damage.
Trails do get closed as needed if it warms up or before trails turned brown.

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Many of trails in S. Wisconsin go on Winter Wheat fields. Never Have i had farmer say no trail this year because I planted winter wheat? With that said we try to avoid the field as much as possible but many times you have to go right through it, and I have watched were the trail was in the spring and did not notice any effects from the trail. Not saying it does not happen just reporting what I see. Our county does offer no questions asked crop damage money that we remind all the landowners and to my knowledge no farmer has ever called and asked for any, even if its stupid guys going off trail we cover it.

X2....
 
G

G

Guest
Wrong, I personally ran a trail directly over winter wheat with permission of course....I also drive by the same track 5 days a week and was able to see it from planting to combining.
Absolutely no damage.
Trails do get closed as needed if it warms up or before trails turned brown.

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X2....

Whatever. If you come here and run in winter wheat fields you won't be very popular.
 

ridindirty800

Active member
Whatever. If you come here and run in winter wheat fields you won't be very popular.



And in our area we have been running right though them since I remember marking trails as a kid with my dad, not saying you are wrong by any means. Luckily the farmers let us cross them or we would have no trails down here as many fields are surrounded by subdivisions with no other way around them but to go threw them.
 

mrbb

Well-known member
MRBB....I gotta ask......go ask the farmer that has the wheat field that sleds go on...I will bet if you ask him without stating the sled thing.....how have nyour winter wheat crops been these last years.....he'll say not bad....then ask has there been damaged crops or did the field produce ok....he'll say not bad it all came up rather nicely....I think i'll plant again next year too....I have never heard of one instance of damage to crops from sleds after the harvest....but yet this misconception is carried on....just curious if ya actually asked em.....and if there is....what and how much of the field did not recover.....the entire field recovered why? that's what I hear.....the few that do say they have damage....when ya press em you find out....well I just don't like em, but I am planting wheat again....let us know

well since I am a farmer and have had personal damage to my 60 acres winter wheat field, I can say 100% without any hesitation, YES I had damages done and lesser takes where the damage to fields were done

NOW< one thing you have to consider here is we get a fraction of the snow you UP and like area's get
folks here will ride on 2 inches and destroy things down to soil


I gather MOST riders in your area have more brains, and well, also KNOW They will have better conditions and as such, NOT ride in such poor conditions, next your season is a LOT longer, so you get more chances to ride and know this,
folks here have SHORT seasons, IF any at all anymore, when it does SNOW< everyone and there cousin head out and ride
one idiot crosses a NO ride field and everyone follows and then tear things up

next again is PACKED down snow takes longer to melt, making me a farmer have to wait to get into a field,. where as if folks didn't pack things down I could gain access to many fields over the yrs sooner, thus also costing me time

NOW back to the UP and such, maybe your green up is slower coming and NOT as big a deal on lost down time from snow being packed into things
BUT it doesn't mean it cannot happen else where

and last, I never plant back to back yrs of winter wheat, just doesn't do that well, without having to add more costs to get same yields, I do crop rotations for a reason as do most farmers!
SOME MIGHT< yes, but it comes down to area and soil types, and growing seasons and options of them all!
NOW not that I skipped over your questions TRACKER< But, to answer things,
HOW Much of the field did NOT recover, that in the 1 , 60 acre filed I had winter wheat in and had the most damage, I would say I lost about 25 % production on that field, as again, they tore things down to soil level in take off strips and drag racing based on tracks?
once you tear plants out by there roots and or pack them down , they take longer IF they can even bounce back
WHICH brings in to packed snow on top of it, all plants have a growth cycle of sorts, to reach there premium growths, they need "X" amount of nutrient's (fertilizer, nitrogen and water and such) and "X" amount of sunlight

when snowmobile tracks PACK snow and take weeks at times longer to melt
the area's that didn;t get packed down, grow faster and taller, higher yields, as to areas that don't get the same amount of sunlight if you follow

a lot of damages to things are NOT seen to the average person
soil compaction is also a deal farmers deal with
water run off is another, and all can be effected by snowmobile
HOW big and much effect
is really based on what and where

I am NOT bashing snowmobiler again
I am just saying there are reasons land owners DON"T want them in or on certain area's of there property, as it can COST a land owner money, you might not understand or see or think it is!
simple fact, its the land owners LAND< he paid for it, he and ONLY them should have say in how they will allow it to be used
lack of following this, is just plain rude and what causes hard feeling to many and thus closed routes and lands in the future
respect
simple yet taken for granted way too often!
 

mrbb

Well-known member
Wrong, I personally ran a trail directly over winter wheat with permission of course....I also drive by the same track 5 days a week and was able to see it from planting to combining.
Absolutely no damage.
Trails do get closed as needed if it warms up or before trails turned brown.

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X2....

SNO builder, there is a and I agree a difference in a TRAIL across a winter wheat field and folks just tearing into a field of it
a say 20 ft wide path across it and closed before conditions get iffy, NOT much hard to the plants under the SNOW
BUT do you know for certain that that farmer didn';t go back and top dress that PATH< to allow for some catch up?
its what I and a few other farmers I know have done over the yrs to trails running thur fields, or having to go across a path with a light disc to loosen soil back up

many farmers also ride sleds, so we WANT to ride too and make and add to things to keep trails open

BUT again, its still land owners call, and you even said, you got permission to make trail
its those that ride in area's we DON"T want trampled down,, that get our panties in a bunch LOL
and most likely with good reason
its NOT about being a ***** (yes some might just be miserable folks, but even them, tend to have a reason if looked back at things to get that way)
 

POLARISDAN

New member
No one can predict what a landowner will do from year to year. Depending on the tract of land, all aspects of worse case scenarios such as seeing tracks off the trail should be included in the discussion when getting permission to cross. If tracked up snow next to the trail (that leave when snow melts) is not acceptable then the landowner can decide right then and there what there answer is.

If a landowner for example says yes run your trail in between these 2 rows of seedlings, or this field of winter wheat, there might be a problem if not cordoned off properly.

An explanation of reparations if damage does occur also needs to be in place.

thats what surprises me about your comments..u work with landowners in your clubs area..and i would think you would be the first to pissed off about t/passing
 

snobuilder

Well-known member
What's difficult on here is that if you don't spew venom, you're somehow lumped into being in favor of tresspassing or whatever the topic of the day is.
Not in favor of any potentially bad behavior. Just looking for solutions beyond just blowing up on a website where for the most part you're preaching to the choir.
 
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