Open Up Oil Reserves!

[98panther]

I just bought a new Flex fuel Chevy, and I do plan to try using E85. If it's break even or even cost me a little more. I'd rather spend my $$ with a US farmer, than a give it to a oil company. I also burn corn for heat at the cabin.

So flame away, asbestos pants are on

 

[yeffy]

I have a Flex fuel truck and have run E85 through it, sure the price per gallon is less but my cost per mile went up because the millage was so bad. Until they find an alternative to a crop that needs to be replanted each season and lower the cost, I will not be using E85. As for the people that want to kill us, WHAT until we use up all of their oil and the only thing they have to sell is sand!

 

[bearrassler]

This is an interesting thread. North Dakota has a lot of oil, one of the previous posts had a link saying the Bakken formation had around 4 billion barrels of oil. That was from 2008 and it was recoverable oil with technoligies at that time. There are estimates out there that is has up to 40 to 50 billion barrels of oil. As technology advances on drilling, more of that oil will be able to be recovered at a profit. Grub had mentioned that the EPA is trying to limit or stop fracking which is pumping water and some chemicals down the well to get the oil out. If that were to happen it would shut down most of ND's oil industry and the reason they give is that it could affect the ground water. Where they are doing this it is two miles down, way below the ground water. Also someone mentioned that we couldn't transfer it out because of lack of pipelines. That issue has been taken care of for now. The biggest issue is lack of housing and public infastructure. It is not as simple as it sounds to add more housing. These are small towns with limited sewage and water systems. In the early 80's a few towns added streets and sewer systems, etc. and the price of oil dropped and they almost became ghost towns and went broke. They are a little cautious to spend millions to upgrade. Also there is no where to stay and ND is not a good place to sleep in a tent or your car in the winter. There are lots of well paying jobs available if you can find a place to stay but it is not for everyone. We also have the Three Forks/Sanish formation which is loaded with oil and they think that they may have discovered another formation. The oil is here but it takes time to get to it and get it out of the ground.

 

[xcr440]

This is an interesting thread. North Dakota has a lot of oil, one of the previous posts had a link saying the Bakken formation had around 4 billion barrels of oil. That was from 2008 and it was recoverable oil with technoligies at that time. There are estimates out there that is has up to 40 to 50 billion barrels of oil. As technology advances on drilling, more of that oil will be able to be recovered at a profit. Grub had mentioned that the EPA is trying to limit or stop fracking which is pumping water and some chemicals down the well to get the oil out. If that were to happen it would shut down most of ND's oil industry and the reason they give is that it could affect the ground water. Where they are doing this it is two miles down, way below the ground water. Also someone mentioned that we couldn't transfer it out because of lack of pipelines. That issue has been taken care of for now. The biggest issue is lack of housing and public infastructure. It is not as simple as it sounds to add more housing. These are small towns with limited sewage and water systems. In the early 80's a few towns added streets and sewer systems, etc. and the price of oil dropped and they almost became ghost towns and went broke. They are a little cautious to spend millions to upgrade. Also there is no where to stay and ND is not a good place to sleep in a tent or your car in the winter. There are lots of well paying jobs available if you can find a place to stay but it is not for everyone. We also have the Three Forks/Sanish formation which is loaded with oil and they think that they may have discovered another formation. The oil is here but it takes time to get to it and get it out of the ground.

Very intelligent response.

 

[cat_man_mike]

Was NOT my intent to stamp on anyone.

But I do follow this pretty closely. It IS clear that the oil companies are in cahoots to keep control of the energy markets.

Ever wonder why E85 pumps sit out there in the weather at gas stations while all the dino fuel is back up under the canapé? It is NO accident.

I am not trying to change anybodies minds, because some wouldn't be changed if you could use a can opener.

Oil is a commodity....sold and exchanged on a WORLD market, so pumping all over the place would not be the great price reducer that the oil companies would have you believe it would be....yes they want to have a free hand in drilling all over the place....and so what if a spill screws up the environment for years later....gosh...we need the oil and who really cares about the gulf of Mexico or Alaska....I don't go there anyway.

But the facts are that corn oil, is renewable. Maybe it won't be the final thing in energy, but it sure does help. Why shouldn't the companies that make the fuels from corn have the same subsidies that the big oil companies get? Or better still get rid of ALL subsidies and let them compete even up, so long as the oil companies don't purposely drop fuel prices low enough to run the ethanol plants out of business. Banks have a maximum rate that they can pay on savings....just so the big banks don't run the little banks out of business. It should be the same for a company that is giving us another option for energy, eh?

No we have to have mis-information from the "petroleum institute" which is no where near biased....just like the old "Tobacco institute" used to show you how good smoking was for your health...kept flies away, and was a great company to invest in. These are avenues of mis-information that speal out garbage like "corn gas costs more to make than they get for it"...or "stuff competes with human food" or that it takes "two gallons of dino fuel to make one gallon of corn fuel"....the list is long and if you understand economics at all, you would know that NOBODY would produce it if any of this were true.

Subsidy is 45 cents per gallon for corn gas.....or 7 billion per year. Oil companies get 8 billion per year....so look what is calling the kettle black!!

Just because a few farmers won't use it in their tanks...doesn't mean it is bad...it just means they have a CHOICE. I know one farmer that uses it exclusively and has not had a single issue doing that...and he has dozens of tractors combines and all the other stuff most farmers own.

"It uses way too much water...." if you ever saw one of these plants churning away in South Dakota, it sits right out in the middle of nowhere with corn fields all around and runs and runs, and the water they run off of doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Suck it right out of the ground.

Once folks start think'n and stop believing everything they read about how "baaaaddddd" corn gas is...then we are at the beginning of not being so dependent upon oil.
We need to build machines to run on this stuff so that we HAVE A CHOICE.

We need to diversify greatly. We need to retrain how we live and drive and how we view the world. Collectively America is the greatest country in the world, but we are NOT alone in energy use. There is a six ton gorilla in the room....and the gorilla is about to start moving around. We need to deal with it NOW....not wait until we have nothing else to fall back on. It is THAT simple. And you can "drill baby drill...til your drill gets dull and it won't change a darn thing....because WE are not in control of what THEY do with the stuff.

Excelent response!!!!!!!!! Too bad people would rather believe the propiganda than your facts.

Per bearrassler: "Grub had mentioned that the EPA is trying to limit or stop fracking which is pumping water and some chemicals down the well to get the oil out."

Wait a minuite, you are saying they use water to provide fuel??????? EVILDOERS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[UP RIDER]

How about more fuel efficent vehicles so the demand is not so high???? With direct injection you get all the horsepower and half the fuel spent. (ok, maybe not half, but you get the idea) Maybe more, dare I say it, ethanol? Run on corn grown in the USA! You may not like it, but that 10% ethanol is 10% that is not comming from people who want to kill us. If 30% is good enough for NASCAR, why cant 10% be good enough for you? And where is this hydrogen car technology? Seems like it just died somewhere around the year 2000.

Ethenol is not sustainable,takes more energy too produce it than you get out of it.If it was not subsidised by the Fed's it would not exist.

 

[indy_500]

I'm dreaming for the day I can fill up my entire sled for less than $20 But I know that won't happen in my lifetime

 

[dcsnomo]

I'm dreaming for the day I can fill up my entire sled for less than $20 But I know that won't happen in my lifetime

I remember when a pack of cigs and a gallon of gas were the same price...40 cents!

 

[cat_man_mike]

Ethenol is not sustainable,takes more energy too produce it than you get out of it.If it was not subsidised by the Fed's it would not exist.

^ See Anonomoose, that proves my point right there. People would rather believe propaganda than the facts.

UP RIDER, please read anonomoose's post.

 

[Firecatguy]

All of you people all over Obama seem to forget that we would not be in this mess if your buddy Dubya would not have shreaded all the renewable energy research budget for 8 years to help all of his big oil buddies in texas. We where well on our way to clean renewable energy for those who wanted it. Not a complete change over, but imagine gas prices if 1/3 of the country was driving 50mpg cars, electric cars, and hydrogen fuel cell cars? In 8 years the infastructure for hydrogen delivery would have been in place and all of the jobs it would have created may have helped out a little with this pesky unemployment situation. Remember the huge budget surplus we had in 2000 that could have paid for it? Watch "the smartest guys in the room" it is a documentary about Enron and the California energy crisis. The Bush administration really took it to us and now we are paying for it. So before you start in on the current President, do a little research into 2000-2008.

whatever!!!!!!u are so fast to blam Bush admin where all the big profits going now?To Obama as that was what was said about Bush......BLAM BLAME BLAME.......sad.....50mpg cars should pull my trailer good out west......

 

[ezra]

I am all for any energy source that receives NO FEDRAL FUNDING not the feds job to fund any corp including oil but corn gas is a joke if it stood on its own would be more than 1/2 more per gal than gas.why not re open drilling in the USA? how many jobs would that create or at least keep the worker in the USA where the fed could actually collect tax on there wages.no better to move the rigs to mexico Waters drill there same workers working out of country as long as they stay out 11mo no tax and the oil comp can pay mexico and Cuba for the oil rights and just run their bits a few mi in the us wells and take the oil.but I guess it is best to keep them out of the USA because when a rig blows in the gulf in Cuban waters it will never affect USA waters. it is best to keep them in Cuba and mexico and let them get the money and oil. do we really want to talk about pissing money away in the bush Adm or how Clinton got the reserves or who put the bill on bushes desk? what did Clinton do in 8 yrs to the economy? why was bill able to collect so much money was it his policies that created economic prosperity? if so why was it sinking fast in the last 4 yrs of his administration? before we do that go back and look in to policy from jimmy to now and once you have your ducks in a row we will chat and dont leave out any bills by any congress because they all matter so in say July we can get in to it .do some real home work

 

[yamaholic]

There's atleast 10 oil rigs that pump 24/7 whithin 8 miles of my girlfriends house. I can stand in her front yard and see one. they drill drill drill all around my area little Texas. I wonder where all this michigan oil is going? I need to build a refinery.

 

[jonesin]

Was NOT my intent to stamp on anyone.

Subsidy is 45 cents per gallon for corn gas.....or 7 billion per year. Oil companies get 8 billion per year....so look what is calling the kettle black!!


hhmmm, so 7 bill vs 8 bill, how many gallons sold of ethanol vs gas? I would wager the subsidy per gal is what, thousands higher than for gas?
stop subsidizing them all!
last year i looked up an agricultural site on subsities only to see that every farmer around me is receiving them. some to grow, some not to grow, some to milk more or less.....
its a joke!
we subsidize NPR becouse they cant make it on their own like air america
we subsidize small farmers becouse they cant make it, then millionaire farmers rake in huge profits
we subsidize art museams and they put up worthless pictures of feces
we subsidize the chev volt becouse otherwise nobody would buy them
we subsidize wind/solar power becouse it costs more to produce than it puts out
IF IT HAS TO BE SUBSIDIZED IT'S NOT NEEDED
if a product is desireable, people will develope it on their own and reap the rewards

KEEP THE GOVT OUT OF THE SPECULATION RACKET!
just my 3 cents...

 

[skidoodoug]

Do not open up the oil reserves, it would be a very temporary downfall in prices, then they would go back up real quick. Regulate the crooks speculating on oil futures.

You got it brother !!!

 

[cat_man_mike]

whatever!!!!!!u are so fast to blam Bush admin where all the big profits going now?To Obama as that was what was said about Bush......BLAM BLAME BLAME.......sad.....50mpg cars should pull my trailer good out west......

I am glad you read my entire post. Oh, wait, you didn't. If you did, you would have read that I said "1/3 of the country driving 50mpg cars". Unless you own 1/3 of the cars in the US, in which case you have alot more money than the rest of us and have no problem paying $4.00 a gallon for gas because, well, you can afford 80 million cars. Or maybe that is why you are so mad, because you have to buy gas for 80 million cars. Either way you have way more money than I could ever dream of, congratulations.

50mpg may indeed one day pull your trailer out west. The direct injected mustang gets 31mpg with 305hp.

 

[anonomoose]

Was NOT my intent to stamp on anyone.

Subsidy is 45 cents per gallon for corn gas.....or 7 billion per year. Oil companies get 8 billion per year....so look what is calling the kettle black!!


hhmmm, so 7 bill vs 8 bill, how many gallons sold of ethanol vs gas? I would wager the subsidy per gal is what, thousands higher than for gas?
stop subsidizing them all!.....IF IT HAS TO BE SUBSIDIZED IT'S NOT NEEDED
if a product is desireable, people will develope it on their own and reap the rewards

KEEP THE GOVT OUT OF THE SPECULATION RACKET!
just my 3 cents...

Subsidies are not measure in per gallon. It is per year no matter how many gallons you pump.

Two industries, both important, but one makes 77 billion and gets handed 8 billion back in subsidies....

Like it or not, ethanol is part of our energy package, and 10% less oil used while we use it.

Some day maybe something better and then okay....watch it go by the wayside. But for now, we need more of it not less.

As far as all the other susidies, these are facts of life. So many have hands out in every industry...some justified, and much never justified, but this is how it works. Get used to it, or vote the bums who vote for them out.

Here is another thing to ponder.....

Oil goes up and down based upon commodity prices which usually have nothing whatsoever to do with supply...purely speculative, right?

Why does ethanol track right with higher gasoline prices when they spike up?

Ethanol costs the same to produce over time and is far more stable in price. Yet the price at the pump tracks right up and down just like dino fuel.

Answer....oil companies control the pricing at the pumps, where the pumps are located, and what price the fuel will be purchased at. They do the delivery so they regulate.

Wouldn't want E-85 to become half price of dino fuel would we??? Suddenly it would take up the slack in demand and would cause downward pressure on dino dung.....

 

[jonesin]

Subsidies are not measure in per gallon. It is per year no matter how many gallons you pump.

Two industries, both important, but one makes 77 billion and gets handed 8 billion back in subsidies....

Like it or not, ethanol is part of our energy package, and 10% less oil used while we use it.

Some day maybe something better and then okay....watch it go by the wayside. But for now, we need more of it not less.

As far as all the other susidies, these are facts of life. So many have hands out in every industry...some justified, and much never justified, but this is how it works. Get used to it, or vote the bums who vote for them out.

Here is another thing to ponder.....

Oil goes up and down based upon commodity prices which usually have nothing whatsoever to do with supply...purely speculative, right?

Why does ethanol track right with higher gasoline prices when they spike up?

Ethanol costs the same to produce over time and is far more stable in price. Yet the price at the pump tracks right up and down just like dino fuel.

Answer....oil companies control the pricing at the pumps, where the pumps are located, and what price the fuel will be purchased at. They do the delivery so they regulate.

Wouldn't want E-85 to become half price of dino fuel would we??? Suddenly it would take up the slack in demand and would cause downward pressure on dino dung.....

i'm against subsidies period, i'm just saying that ethanol requires an extremely higher amount than oil.
why are they subsidizing the oil companies anyway?
why did Obameme give something like 70 million to a foriegn country to use for oil exploration and marketing but yet tie the hands of American companies? (i'll try and find the source story i read last week)
most of the farmers around me can hardly afford to feed thier cattle with the increased costs, they may have to stop providing beef, pork and milk and just grow corn.
we have plenty of oil if the enviro wacko's would let us get it

 

[G]

There are at least two sides to Ethanol vs Oil. Which costs more, which gets subsidized more, etc, etc. At the end of the day it is still a crappy product. We now have vehicles that will 'tolerate' it but we have not built anything specifically designed to run on it. If they came out with something that ran on pure ethanol that performed as well as our gas engines do the argument for ethanol would be stronger. The half-azzed approach we have taken instead is just retarded. I still think more effort should be put into switch-grass ethanol rather than corn ethanol. Every day there are more mouths to feed in the world. At some point we will need every kernal of corn just to eat. We are really only one major crop failure away from catastrophe right now. Last year there were some substantial crop failures wordwide. If we were to lose Australia's production this season we could see even higher wheat prices. If wheat goes up corn follows it. So does sugar. If you have seen the news lately they are having strange weather in Australia.

 

[whitedust]

There are at least two sides to Ethanol vs Oil. Which costs more, which gets subsidized more, etc, etc. At the end of the day it is still a crappy product. We now have vehicles that will 'tolerate' it but we have not built anything specifically designed to run on it. If they came out with something that ran on pure ethanol that performed as well as our gas engines do the argument for ethanol would be stronger. The half-azzed approach we have taken instead is just retarded. I still think more effort should be put into switch-grass ethanol rather than corn ethanol. Every day there are more mouths to feed in the world. At some point we will need every kernal of corn just to eat. We are really only one major crop failure away from catastrophe right now. Last year there were some substantial crop failures wordwide. If we were to lose Australia's production this season we could see even higher wheat prices. If wheat goes up corn follows it. So does sugar. If you have seen the news lately they are having strange weather in Australia.

X2 never use a food source for fuel just asking for economic problems.

 

[anonomoose]

There are at least two sides to Ethanol vs Oil. Which costs more, which gets subsidized more, etc, etc. At the end of the day it is still a crappy product.

It is only a crappy product if you try and run it in something that was not designed for it. As others have stated, they use in race engines all the time because it has a higher octane rating...

We now have vehicles that will 'tolerate' it but we have not built anything specifically designed to run on it. If they came out with something that ran on pure ethanol that performed as well as our gas engines do the argument for ethanol would be stronger.

Cars that run on E-85 ARE built for the stuff. And we are going to get better and better at building machines that run on it. Hopefully they will seperate the ties to the dino oil stations, then Ethanol will stabilize price-wise, and THAT will bring more folks into the fold on it.