Question for any Concrete guys out there.

polarisrider1

New member
Polarisrider, Piers??? Ratwall??? Scuttle vent holes??? What are you building? Some type of bin or ground silo??? Anyways... 5K cash thats pretty cheap. Sounds like your talking new construction, that being that case new construction (no tear out) is ussually considerably cheaper. Anyone experienced, with s skid steer can form up any type of slab in no time at all if they know what they are doing. I will say that its still about a $1 per sq ft. cheaper than even the cheapest guy that I know of in my area. I would jump on that deal because that guy is either going to figure out that he is working way to hard for way to little or he wont be in business that long. Good Luck.
putting in a modular, new construction on flat ground. Min. Site prep. He has been around about 30 years. Got 3 bids all very close. The piers are for the beam supports. No basement. The rat wall footing is to support the block.
 

arcticgeorge

New member
Doospunk,

I have been in the concrete business for 23. Working part time as a welder/fabricator in the truck repair shop for a large family business that owns numerous ready mix concrete companies and sand pits. I know alot of concrete contractors in the north western illinois area. As a matter of fact me and my wife just complete a large stamped/stained concrete patio project at our home. We poured the last 3 yards yesterday after noon. All in total our patio is 56 ft. by 24 ft. at the max. numerous curves and radius. We used a total of 18 yards of concrete. When you work for a ready mix company the employee pricing allowes you to go WAYYYYYY overboard on the size of your patio. Anyways. in my part of Illinois stamped and stained concrete ranges from $10-$22 sq. ft. Depending on how elaborate the project is. The problem with pricing this stuff by the sq. foot is that the liquid base intergral color as well as the suface release agent and stain (water based vs. acid) range from a couple bucks to a$100 per cubic yard in price. We used coloring products from both Brickform corporation as well as Solomon Concrete products. I suggest you check out their websites for ideas. The bottom line with coloring and staining is the more complicate the color (pigmentation requirements) the more expensive they get to make. The brickform product we used cost $22 per bucket/one bucket per cubic yard. We went with a intergarl color called Phenix Tan. We also used a Solomon liquid color called Taupe on some of the pours, that was $16 per bucket. I will tell you again depending on the pigmentation in the color recipe we looked at colors that were $75 per bucket. Crazy!!!!!! We then used a Medium grey powder release agent over the top before the stamping process. Staining highlights were done by using Brickform Artisen water based staining products. As far as the stamps we used rough cut ashular slate 2 ft by 2 ft tiles to border and cut the larger sections of the patio into large slabs. We then used whats called texturing "skins" to texture the area in between the stamped area. Gave the look of large slabs of stone that were bordered ashular slate. Once the concrete is poured and cured in 7 days you will need to sealed with a good solvent based high gloss sealer. This stuff isnt cheap either. We used a concrete sealer called Pro Super Seal. The employee price on a 5 gallon bucket of that stuff was somewhere around $110.

Bottom line, im a concrete guy. Stamp your patio you will love it. If you want let me know and I would be happy to take some pictures tonight and post them on here.

Besides the concrete, color and stains you also have to consider the amount of labor that goes into some of these stamping jobs depending on what stamp is used. Some of the patterns are VERY complicated and require alot of planning and layout work. The contractor only gets one chance once he starts stamping.

My project broke down like this:

Concrete- $100 per cubic yard (retail, not my price)
Liquid intergal color- $16-$22 per cubic yard (ranging from $12-$75 per cubic yard)
Color release agent- $40 per 5 gallon bucket of powder (ranging from $35-$90 per bucket)
Artisen Water Based Stain- $25-$40 per gallon (ranging from $25-$120 per gallon)
Sealer- $150 per 5 gallons
Contractor labor- Very good friends with the contractor, did is for $4 per sq. ft. he only did the stamping. I did all the tear out, grade work, forming, stripping of forms, saw cutting, ect.
Stamp rental- $200
Holy cow sure seems like a lot of specific material and extra cost to make it look nice!.................Go with a paver patio. You need a #5 sand/gravel mix, small compactor, sand and pavers. Maybe some retaining wall blocks if the grade is un level. Plus pavers will never crack like concrete will. They look nice weather they are running a two into two (basket weave) pattern or herring bone or any other pattern. The expansion/contraction thing is not a problem beacuse all of the joints are not locked together but held firmly in place by the other pavers and sand inbetween. here is a pic link of a simple square patio http://www.google.com/imgres?q=pati...7&start=46&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:46,i:271
 
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jamiedesmet

New member
Doospunk-

Last summer I built a detached floating slab garage in the back yard. I hired a concrete guy out of the Forest Lake area. They took out all of the top soil, filled with required gravel/sand, setup the forms and poured a very nice smooth floor for me. Total garage is 26' by 28' and they also poured a 4' apron on the front of the garage as well. I also had them add a row of blocks around the perimeter so the sill plate wouldn't be at grade level. They charged me $4500. That works out to $5.36 per square foot. The slab is around 5" thick and the edges are rebar wrapped and thickened to 12". There was also mesh laid throughout.

Good luck with your project....
 
T

Team Elkhorn

Guest
Holy cow sure seems like a lot of specific material and extra cost to make it look nice!.................Go with a paver patio. You need a #5 sand/gravel mix, small compactor, sand and pavers. Maybe some retaining wall blocks if the grade is un level. Plus pavers will never crack like concrete will. They look nice weather they are running a two into two (basket weave) pattern or herring bone or any other pattern. The expansion/contraction thing is not a problem beacuse all of the joints are not locked together but held firmly in place by the other pavers and sand inbetween.

X-2. Ten years ago, when we first got our house, we really wanted to do a stamped concrete patio. but for the life of me we couldn't get a concrete guy out to even give us an estimate. Apparently my money is no good. After wasting a season trying, we just did a paver patio ourselves. We didn't know what we were doing but it turned out OK and is holding up pretty well. Cost us about $1500 total and 3 or 4 weekends to complete. The main part of it is about 18' x 16'.
View attachment 33204 View attachment 33205 View attachment 33206 View attachment 33207
 

arcticgeorge

New member
Nice! That's what i'am talking about!...... Do it yourself it's not that hard. Search it on youtube, they may have something, I'am going to be doing one at my place with a brick oven off of one end for pizza's and other baked goods. I have been a brick,block and stone mason for about 16 years but i did some concrete before that. If anybody in the UP needs help let me know.
 

doospunk

Active member
Thanks to everyone for the input. Jerkbait - Your project turned out great. Nice work. Elkhorn - The paver patio looks great as well. I'm not sure something like that would be sufficient to support a hot tub though? Before finishing off the basement, we pulled wire into a terminal where the patio will go in case we ever wanted to install one.
 

arcticgeorge

New member
Thanks to everyone for the input. Jerkbait - Your project turned out great. Nice work. Elkhorn - The paver patio looks great as well. I'm not sure something like that would be sufficient to support a hot tub though? Before finishing off the basement, we pulled wire into a terminal where the patio will go in case we ever wanted to install one.
It would support a hot tub no problem. Pavers are used in driveways that support cars and trucks.
 

blizzardmk

New member
It would support a hot tub no problem. Pavers are used in driveways that support cars and trucks.

I agree. My Dad has a hot tub set on pavers. No problems with settling or shifting, but soil is sandy there.

Also, for another concrete data point - I just got a quote to do a sidewalk around my house. Cost works out to $6.40 per square foot. That is for stamped and colored concrete. 4" thick, with wire mesh. The guy poured my basement floor and garage floor. He does nice work. Keep in mind this is in the UP (Hancock), and concrete work is not his main profession.
 

garyl62

Active member
A hot tub on pavers is no problem at all. I have built a lot of decks, paver patios, and other outdoor backyard projects with hot tubs. We regularly put them on pavers and even on wood framing. There is no structural need to have it on concrete.

As far as cost is concerned, if you hire concrete guy stamped concrete would cost you about the same as if you hired a contractor to install a paver patio. The big difference is you may be able to do the paver job yourself and can save a lot of money if you have access to what you need. To do it right you need to remove dirt first. This means a lot of shoveling and hauling it someplace on your lot in a wheel barrow, or getting a skid loader and loading up a truck to haul it away. Then you will need to truck in gravel and spread it to a level that has a slight pitch so you may need the truck, skid loader and maybe a laser level. Then you need a plate compactor to compact the gravel base. Then you need some sand to set the pavers on for the final course of base. If you need to cut any pavers you'll need a chop saw or concrete saw and finally you'll need paver lock sand to sweep in after you've laid them all. Sounds like a lot of work (it is) but I have access to all those things and did my patio for the cost of material only. Gravel and sand was about $40 (I had a dump truck so no trucking fees) and the pavers were $2.42 per square foot. I even got the expensive tumbled holland pavers at Menards. The non-tumbled ones would have only been $1.60 per foot. The paver lock sand is expensive but worth it, as it hardens like concrete and keeps the weeds away. Mine ran about $125. So for a 600 square foot patio off my deck I spent less than $3 per square foot.

Bottom line, put in what you like. Like anything else, if you have the skills, time and tools you can save a lot of money.

Here are some shots of my backyard paradise

DSC06991.jpg DSC06990.jpg DSC06987.jpg DSC06988.jpg DSC06989.jpg
 
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arcticgeorge

New member
..Looks very nice Gary......... A paver patio and stamped concrete should not even be close as far as the bid, if it is i would search around for a different paver guy. Like the other guy that listed all the different and costly things needed to do a stamped concrete patio, there's just a lot less needed to do pavers. If you have a square patio you wont need a laser level. A 2x10 on each side that is set to pitch with a level before you lay the pavers and a 2x6 with a offset 2x4 hanging down say 2 1/2 inches and bridged across the the 2x10's then dragged across the sand will give you your bed for the pavers. Of course the sand is on top of the sand/gravel mix. (search Danny Lipford's paver episode) No need for a skid steer or dump truck if you have a friend with a pick up truck. No chop saw would be needed (if you keep it square) or have a Skil saw with a diamond blade that can be purchased at local home builder stores. And pool or a fine mason's sand will work fine inbetween the pavers and save you a lot of dough.
 
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garyl62

Active member
I agree about not needing all the tools if you keep it square and small enough. You can always rent anything you don't have too. If you get into 20+ foot size in either direction, or have one like mine that goes in a circle and the yard drops off more than you want the patio to, it helps to have a laser or transit and marking pole to keep it all going the right way. I used 3 sticks of 1/2 conduit and a straight 2x4 to drag my sand for the bed but your idea works good too.

As far as cost factors, in my area paver patios start about $8 a square foot, but are normally more in the 10 to 15 range which is about the average range for the stamped concrete around me. I guess it goes to show though, costs really vary on both location, and if you call the guy that needs the work the most.
 

arcticgeorge

New member
small paver patio with rock border

311690_414253848625021_43501499_n.jpg Here is a small paver patio i just did. This cost me nothing except for a day and a half of labor.
 
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