Reviews of renegade backcountry from the artic north

[ezra]

and I would take back my old rz350 or kh750 any day of the week over some new Tupperware 4st. kick my self every time I see a old Kenny Roberts zing by .

 

[srt20]

I said toss the same money as u put in to a push turbo for a yamaha and u will be well past 400hp . no stock turbo will not get u 400 but a D&D turbo mod with new fuel pump and injectors will get u real close if not to 400 with stock inter cooler and charge tubes . that can be done for well under 2g. u toss a bigger turbo and connecting rods to the mix u can be running with Glenn and Kelly for world records . no lenny 500 for about any guy who can plug in a box and do some clutching can run a ez 220 hp running on questionable fuel with option of 280 or 300 tune when u know u have good gas.
I still dont want or need one have good friends with them so I can get my fix of 1000ft fun over 400hp a few times a yr . all I am saying is the yamah is a fine motor but if u want to make real power the zuk is a better motor all around . in stock non turbo forum yes the yamaha is a better motor. the cat with no mods is 177 hp but who buys a cat turbo to keep it stock? especially with so much cheep reliable HP left on the table. u cant pipe a 2st for 500 bucks then see reliable 50 to 80hp who can leave that on the table

Ok. I didn't understand exactly what you were saying.
I admit I do not know much about the cat turbo. 400 hp for well under 2g? I guess Ill have to take your word for it.

I wasn't comparing a Push turbo to D&D cat. I think most HP junkies look right past Push when they are looking for HP.

 

[momoney2123]

prob with most of what u stated they are all bandages to fix issues they were having with the old design . and I would deff not go any place close to [To start the industries proven and uniformly agreed best suspension] that my friend is deff up for heavy debate . ras 2 bandade for the twitch suspension of old . the minn smoke comes from using no oil to lube any thing but the cylinders and that is also a huge downfall for them.that fully adjustable suspension is a big snow and ice catcher that 99.9 guys out there get set how they like it and never turn the nut again. as far as the only 174 in track to be produced better look that one up . and the T motion is nothing but a bandage to mask the powder snow ill handling defects caused by yrs of tweaking the suspension and chassis to get rid of doos infamous inside ski lift . aas far as the ecu yep u need it to run as close to the edge with no oil as they do .just like a high strung import great to own under warranty .why is it they have to have a break in mode. have had a pile of sleds that have been ridden hard and put away wet from day 1 that got big mi on them before selling.

You obviously know little about the etec. they actually use a lot of oil depending on the RPM, just as much or more than any sled out their when running over 5k RPMS. they just use oil very efficiently at idle, unlike the other SEMI-direct injected fuel systems that keep pooring in oil like the cats. The r-motion is the standard for rear suspensions until proven otherwise. The only one close is the AXYS. RAS 2..bandaid? the orginal RAS was nervous at high speed bumps, that is something 90% wouldnt notice. It fixed that and reduced the inside ski lift and is lighter, how is that a bandaid? Thats legit surgery. This year was the first time i had the fully adjustable suspension and i used it ALL the time. Really works well for drag racing as well, 2 seconds all the way soft for transfer. hit the trail back stiff without ever getting off my sled or getting tools out. Everyone in the group wont go without quick adjust and thats 10+ deep. I guess we are the .1% you mentiion, LMAO. Your so far off but thats ok. The ECU is a management system that doesnt allow morons to burn the engines up. Its why you can hold an etec wide open for miles on end. See there are some people that are morons and hold 2 strokes wide open for LONG periods. and they burn down, and then they come on the internet and say it junk. Well BRP has a fix to that and it had definentaly helped engine life. Something CAT and POO are COPYING. like it or not. Also you reason for break-in mode is also A s s backwards. but thats my opinion. carry on.

 

[momoney2123]

ficht technology as well as Yamahas sport bike YCC-t 3 mode motorcycle throttle technology were glommed onto by ski-doo.
no pioneering there and that is your BIG 2.
A smoother rear suspension?....big whoop...Saturday afternoon trails still have owners of all brands whining.
Yamahas reostat hand/thumb warmers are 30 years old and still work better than any new system out there today.....LOL

As you know, I was curious enough to plunk down my hard earned MOney and explore backwards into the latest 2 stroke engine and chassis for 2015 with my AXYS 800.
I am not sure how much better your Ski-doos are than the AXYS but considering all of the trade-offs between the AXYS and the '11 Apex I'd call it a draw at best.

i'd seriously ask you to spend a season on a new Apex but then I realixe that your childlike big boy bias wouldn't allow youself to be fair in any sort of open minded analysis of the best sled/4 stroke trail sled available.

I rode a 2014 apex for a long while. the sled simply doesnt handle or go over the bumps like the r-motion XS sled. period. its not even in the same ball park. The engine is sweet. Its a high speed trail cruiser. Its reliable and if you like it kick back and just cruise its a nice sled, but When it gets tight and twisty its out matched in ease of ride to virtually any 2 stroke, plain and simple. then if it gets rough, time to go home or put sled in trailer. Plus we ran on the lake and i drug it, which all i heard from him was how fast it was, and i knew better as it wasnt the first apex or rx-1 ton ive ran. he was shocked when i went around him yelling...SLING SHOT haha

Your arguing me on pioneering in recent years in yamaha vs ski-doo, SMH. Just not worth the breath.

 

[momoney2123]

prob with most of what u stated they are all bandages to fix issues. the minn smoke comes from using no oil to lube any thing but the cylinders and that is also a huge downfall.

Maybe this will help explain how backwards your visions are of the etec...oil to the cylinders? Watch where the oil goes in the model....crank and raves. Another thing, the QA Rmotion i owned this year has way less ice than any previous owned sleds . First time i never had to bang ice out in the morning ever in 2k miles. Thats progress big dog....progress.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=daN72ij2eTU

 

[Hoosier]

Maybe this will help explain how backwards your visions are of the etec...oil to the cylinders? Watch where the oil goes in the model....crank and raves. Another thing, the QA Rmotion i owned this year has way less ice than any previous owned sleds . First time i never had to bang ice out in the morning ever in 2k miles. Thats progress big dog....progress.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=daN72ij2eTU

Interesting video. I see where it dumps oil straight to the crank - does Doo still use the sealed crank bearings? Do they still have issues with those? That was a well-known problem at one time.

 

[Attak man]

Cripes.... Momoney is still babbling??? (SMH)....if your 800 is beating an apex...there is something wrong with it, or you are modified...stock on stock I can walk an 800 doo from 80 mph on....same goes for the Rush and Axys 800.....the 800's are quicker...not faster (unless they have been tweeked)....and you better hope you don't run into an Ulmer prepped apex (clutching, and airbox mod)...your doo will get a spanking, that you won't forget. You talk so much bs...you sound like a walking DOO brochure...You keep calling yamaha old and outdated...hardly...I can't wait until ski-doo puts EPS on their 4 strokes...I suppose then it will be the best thing since sliced bread....you think the throttle by wire tech is ALL SKI-doo, and new tech....it's not....bike manufacturers have had it for years (including yamaha) ...in fact supertrax said yamaha's new for 2016 wireless system works far better than ski-doos...(go read).

Yamaha's are not perfect...and we will see how well the new single shot skid works...I have said the skid is the one area that needs improvement....weight to me doesn't matter...the eps makes that a non issue...if you simply ride trails, and want a reliable machine...it's hard to beat a yamaha....they perform well, and get good fuel economy.....You can keep blathering all day about those yellow turds...you haven't changed my mind (or anybody else who rides a yamaha)...those of us who own them like them alot...Ride what you like...but don't tell me my ride is junk (because that's basically what you are saying)

BTW...go take a look at snowmobile recalls since 2008....guess what company has had the most? No it's not cat....and it's not yamaha....and it's not polaris....so which company would that be momoney??
Should we talk about those service bulletins as well?? (cranks, pistons, rings etc)

Yeah....you should probably lay this crap to rest.

 

[momoney2123]

Interesting video. I see where it dumps oil straight to the crank - does Doo still use the sealed crank bearings? Do they still have issues with those? That was a well-known problem at one time.

Yes the outer bearings are sealed. Its only an issue if the seal fails and causes pre-mature iso flex grease leakage. Otherwise they will go a LONG time without needing grease. I kno of many etecs over 10k miles on orginal iso flex pack. 800s and 600s.

Just like anything you hear on the Internet, it seems more common than reality. I quickly counted the amouny of etecs owned in my group by relatives and close friends. 21. 12 600s and 9 800s. The only thing i have seen go bad was one water pump on a 600. Otherwise none of the engines have been apart. You'd think with this being a KNOWN problem, surely we would have blown 1 up?

I asked my dealer last year how many etec he seen that actually blew up, not prevenative recall rebuild. Off the top of his head he remembered 1 800. He sold 225 ski-doos this year.

 

[momoney2123]

Attack man. Anytime any place, bring your apex out next year. Ill meet you on nokomis to show you how an etec runs when its dialed. The best running apex i ran was personally clutched by donahue. Was a good race but not good enough . As i mentioned 9 times out of 10 johhny gas and go on apex will beat joey gas and go on etec. But when you get them right...well..good luck.

 

[momoney2123]

I also love how you bring up the fact about skidoos piston recall. Thanks for reminding me how great it is when a company admits a costly mistake and corrects it. You doo kno this was only for model years 11 and early 2012s. People still think this is going on haha, smh. I happened to have a 2011 that ran hard. Rode it for 4k miles of zero issues, dropped it off at dealer. They rebuilt it, and i sold it with a essentially a brand new engine for the next guy to enjoy. I happened to get a bunch more money than i expected. Thanks again ski-doo!!!

- - - Updated - - -

O yea. For anyone with a 2011 or early build 2012 800 etec only, i think this august is the end of the updates. So if you didnt get your free rebuild, make sure you do it before August!! Man a manufacturer offering a rebuild 5 years after the found issue. Love it!!!

 

[snobuilder]

Attack man. Anytime any place, bring your apex out next year. Ill meet you on nokomis to show you how an etec runs when its dialed. The best running apex i ran was personally clutched by donahue. Was a good race but not good enough .


>>> As i mentioned 9 times out of 10 johhny gas and go on apex will beat joey gas and go on etec. But when you get them right...well..good luck.<<<

I never saw you type that before ...even when you admit your etecs are slow you have to lie....LOL!

Of course YOU have the specialy tuned "fast one"....internet jockeys like you always do....LOL!

Imagine how fast you'd be on your specialy tuned APEX!

 

[momoney2123]

I never saw you type that before ...even when you admit your etecs are slow you have to lie....LOL!

Of course YOU have the specialty tuned "fast one"....internet jockeys like you always do....LOL!

You really have no idea.i have spent hours dialing my sled in. Probably had the clutches apart 20+ times trying different things. Something people like you will never understand or comprehend.

I offered to run your apex and axys. But since i couldnt provide you free lodging you wimped out. Lol. Nothing woulda been better. I had video camera waiting and we could see who the REAL internet JOCKEY is.

- - - Updated - - -

Ps go read the cat 7000 thread over.

 

[Attak man]

So you want to run your "tweeked DOO" against my BONE STK Apex??? Figures....like I said...stk for stk...I'm not that stupid...that I will race a tweeked sled with a bone stk sled....jeeze (did you not see where i wrote stock??)..I am confident what my apex will do (stock on stock)...btw...my buddies 2013 switchback Pro-R (stock)and a 2015 Xys switchback (stock) both beat the 800 etecs (all stock...3 in all) in our informal lake races....(several times)....and I beat both of the Poos...the longer the distance....the bigger the gap.

Typical ski-doo rider....running a tweeked sleds...beating up on stock sleds, and acting like they are king of the lake...LOL......Part of the reason I refuse to buy a ski-doo is the type of rider they attract...like MOMONEY....prime example...I bet he beats up on these stock sleds and posts videos all over youtube...saying how he beat this "FAST" yamaha with his stock ski-doo...lol
How pathetic....LOL

 

[momoney2123]

So you want to run your "tweeked DOO" against my BONE STK Apex??? Figures....like I said...stk for stk...I'm not that stupid...that I will race a tweeked sled with a bone stk sled....jeeze (did you not see where i wrote stock??)..I am confident what my apex will do (stock on stock)...btw...my buddies 2013 switchback Pro-R (stock)and a 2015 Xys switchback (stock) both beat the 800 etecs (all stock...3 in all) in our informal lake races....(several times)....and I beat both of the Poos...the longer the distance....the bigger the gap.

Typical ski-doo rider....running a tweeked sleds...beating up on stock sleds, and acting like they are king of the lake...LOL......Part of the reason I refuse to buy a ski-doo is the type of rider they attract...like MOMONEY....prime example...I bet he beats up on these stock sleds and posts videos all over youtube...saying how he beat this "FAST" yamaha with his stock ski-doo...lol
How pathetic....LOL

Wow. you really dont understand either

Changing clutching and gearing is stock in any other world but your excuse filled little niche!!!

These are all interchangable components that allows people to "tune" a sled or clutch to "their" liking. SOMETHING I WELCOME YOU TO DO!!!!

The power output is IDENTICAL. NO power added!!!! LOL

These arent clutch "kits". these are all ski-doo factory components, QRS cams, ramps and spring changes. Ive raced apex's with these 'kits'. still not enough!

I have never posted a video or taken one of any race, but i was ready too for snoman.

Please dont buy ski-doo, you wont ever fully appreciate what its capable of. yamaha builds a perfect sled for you

 

[momoney2123]

"and you better hope you don't run into an Ulmer prepped apex (clutching, and airbox mod)...your doo will get a spanking,"

I welcome this mod too^^^^ . You guys once again have never been involved in sanctioned racing. Clutching and gearing mods race in STOCK class

 

[Hoosier]

Yes the outer bearings are sealed. Its only an issue if the seal fails and causes pre-mature iso flex grease leakage. Otherwise they will go a LONG time without needing grease. I kno of many etecs over 10k miles on orginal iso flex pack. 800s and 600s.

Just like anything you hear on the Internet, it seems more common than reality. I quickly counted the amouny of etecs owned in my group by relatives and close friends. 21. 12 600s and 9 800s. The only thing i have seen go bad was one water pump on a 600. Otherwise none of the engines have been apart. You'd think with this being a KNOWN problem, surely we would have blown 1 up?

I asked my dealer last year how many etec he seen that actually blew up, not prevenative recall rebuild. Off the top of his head he remembered 1 800. He sold 225 ski-doos this year.

I would think of the bearing issue as more of a long-term issue - your dealer might not see many of these as this would be off warranty. I'm more interested in how these hold up for the guy that say buys a new sled and rides it 6 or 7 years and puts 10,000 miles on it in that time. That's quite a few offseasons, etc where they could dry out. I don't know about your experience obviously but this is an issue even Doo-lovers would admit for some years. I'm wondering if it's still an issue.

 

[momoney2123]

I would think of the bearing issue as more of a long-term issue - your dealer might not see many of these as this would be off warranty. I'm more interested in how these hold up for the guy that say buys a new sled and rides it 6 or 7 years and puts 10,000 miles on it in that time. That's quite a few offseasons, etc where they could dry out. I don't know about your experience obviously but this is an issue even Doo-lovers would admit for some years. I'm wondering if it's still an issue.

Yea im no saying it doesnt happen. Im saying its rare. You have to understand most people take their sleds to be worked on at the dealer. I think 2 strokes are designed to last 10k miles. Anything more your really on borrowed time. They do make bearing buddies if your worried and you can also grease them yourself or inspect. With the bean counters giving out 4 year bumper to bumper warranties with NO mileage cap, i would say the people who kno best are confident that the percentage of failures will be extremely low.

 

[snobuilder]

I got to admit that Munden fella sure knows how to keep his rigged doo vs. apex races on the top of the you tube heap....type in any sled vs any sled and there his smut is!!!!...LOL....the one where he has a bunch a etecs on radar isn't quite as impressive though......104-106 mph
in what looked to be similar conditions as that vid we have the Yamahas rollin 112-118 mph...the wife rolled a 116 bein the lightest of the bunch.

the 118 was my tight lipped mechanic bud.

Lake racin for top speed is fun for about a 1/2 hour....my PS Apex shines the best in the tight twisties and wide sweepers with its ultra low center of gravity where all the newer sleds keep positioning the heaviest component on the sled....the driver....higher and higher on the seat.

 

[momoney2123]

He has that sled clutched well. I did see his video was first one that came up. I dont race for top speed, just drags, radar runs suck i agree. What are those #s from? Your speedometer?

 

[snobuilder]

Stalker