L
lenny
Guest
ummmm, no, you are incorrect. The investigator do not agree, I agree with them. Listen to the interview,,one of them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RxMJi4zWGoo
ummmm, no, you are incorrect. The investigator do not agree, I agree with them. Listen to the interview,,one of them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RxMJi4zWGoo
L
lenny
Guest
um,, wrong also, the beating injuries were observed by an examiner and determined insignificant. Let's not continue to peruse this aspect of the issue because it has been determined GZ did not recdeive life threatening injuries with one who would be fearing for his or her life,,okay? That's done,,it's a none issue concluded not by me but by those who examined and treated GZ, do you understand this? Goerge was treated for his insignificant injuries, you follow me?
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 10829
Guest
Doesn't matter what his injuries were, it was whether he felt his life was in danger or felt he could sustain bodily harm. What don't YOU understand about that? If a guy pulls a knife on you, do you have to wait until he stabs you or can you act because you feel in danger? With your logic, you have to wait until you've already had the life threatening injuries before you can act! LOL Too late then. Having your head pounded in to the cement is more than a typical bar fight.
xsledder
Active member
Now that's funny right there. Ever been to a HOA meeting? I had my HOA president husband threaten me with physical violence because I disagreed with them about STOP signs.
L
lenny
Guest
so GZ saying his head was repeatedly smashed into the concrete but it not actually happening is of no concern to you? He said his life was in danger as a result of the head smashing but the head smashing didn't happen is no concern to you?
If you claim a beating that has you fearing for your life has transpired but no injuries to support your claim, one can conclude it was a por perception of what was actually transpiring happened. That's the difference that is being ignored.
So we have a guy carrying a gun who can take a life but fails to identify himself and his interest in TM. We have a guy capable of killing someone who believes the suspicious guy has a weapon yet he follows him into a dark area. We have a guy who carries the responsibility of concealing a deadly weapon yet he chooses to use no communication with his mouth to assure TM that he has reason to be following him. We have a guy carrying a loaded weapon who assumes TM was on drugs, assumes something is wrong with him, assumes he is concealing a weapon,,,,,,NO FRIGGIN WONDER TM IS DEAD
xsledder
Active member
I completely concur. If I was on the jury, but I wasn't, that is the point in time where everything else becomes irrelevant and self defense is justified. Any head injury can be fatal. If not, why do we wear helmets while riding sleds. IMHO.
chevytaHOE5674
New member
Why do I need a reason to follow you? And why do I need to let you know about it? Show me the LAWS that say I must do those things. I can show you the laws that say you can't physically assault me. Your the one who sounds like the big macho tough guy out looking for a fight.
The point is to neutralize the threat BEFORE it becomes deadly or does great harm, not after. Responding to a threat after it becomes reality is just too late.
yamahauler
Active member
Lenny. I respect your position but you seem to be stuck on the significant injury thing. A person DOES NOT need to have significant injury to use deadly force. If a person were to wait until significant injury occurred, it very well may be too late as the next blow could be it. You say that most fights don't end in death. That may be a true statement but the fact remains that some do end in death and that is something that I think most people would understand and not take lightly. Therefore, those people would use whatever means possible to end the fight. I may be wrong but you make it sound like all fights are fair, well they are not. It's not the old days, it's the present and that is reality. It almost seems to be that one would have to determine at what point does a fight start.. at the first punch, or the first not so smart action. If first punch, then TM started it, if second then you would believe GZ started it.
L
lenny
Guest
so now your turning this into a situation between you and I? We have been talking hypothetically all through and now it 's becoming personal?,,sheeesh. Lets say you were following my wife, or my kids, should I be concerned about this?
I am not looking for a fight in any way shape or form, we were talking hypothetical.
Your still missing the point that GZ responded with deadly force to a threat that he said was life threatening but a medical doctor said was insignificant. I cannot explain this to you in any other ways and I have tried many many times but we are not getting anywhere.
It's no normal for people to follow people. When a person is followed they feel a sense of threat like why is this person following me, what do they want, are they planning to harm me, these are the thin gs that go through the mind of one who is being followed. if a person follows someone in a certain it could be considered a stalking issue but not in this case. So when you continue to make light of following someone I'd consider the repercussions of that action because it is not recommended. It was recommended by the police for GZ to follow TM yet he did and ultimately killed an unarmed kid.
Last edited:
chevytaHOE5674
New member
I'm speaking hypothetically as well. Just using you and I as an example but it could be Joe and Fred, Sam and Suzy, you get the picture. Simple fact is following somebody is not a crime and is not just cause for "clocking" or "choking out" somebody.
Your say your not out looking for a fight but yet you said.
Which to me sounds like you would throw the first punch which in the eyes of the law is starting a fight.
And when you make light of clocking somebody or choking them out for just following you (which is LEGAL) then you better understand what the repercussions could be....
L
lenny
Guest
I totally understand your position and agree but here is the kicker and I'll try this AGAIN. GZ said he feared for his life as a result of the aggressive head smashing he was receiving from TM yet his injuries do not indicate he was being assaulted as he described. GZ said life threatening and the doc said insignificant, was treated and released. So why does GZ feel his life is in danger and claims his head was repeatedly smashed into the sidewalk while sustaining insignificant injuries? Do you get my point? It's not as though he was backed into a corned by a gun or knife yielding criminal . A threat of death or great bodily harm is required, GZ said it existed because of a head smashing but under examination his injuries were deemed significant. GZ did receive some minor injuries to the back of his head and a reasonable assumption could be that he received punches to his head while on his back with his head on the sidewalk. GZ injuries are consistent with a dude in a scuffle and for GZ to fear for his life is a cop out.
L
lenny
Guest
I said I am not looking for a fight between you and I because it seems you are allowing this to get personal and that's not good. Now back to reality, if I were being followed for a fair amount of time I may just press the issue and fully accept the repercussion that I may get beat up or killed. Killed is so slim I do not think about it. Getting beat up is also a possibility as I am no tough guy but it is a risk I am willing to take. Follow my kids or wife and I'll be in your face like a mad man,,like it or not. It's the nature of man, no one likes to feel violated and that does include being followed
chevytaHOE5674
New member
And if someone were to "be in my face like a mad men" I would ask them to step back, I would try to remove myself from the situation. But if the "mad man" continued to hound me then I would feel endangered and be forced to take action.
No that's the nature of you. If me or my family is being followed first thing I'll do is phone 911, while doing that I would continue walking and get to a place with other people around (even knock on somebody's door if needed). At the same time I'm doing those things I would have my hand in my pocket on my gun just in case. Would I approach the follower??? No way because I'm not out looking for trouble, only reason for putting a hand on my gun is in case the follower decides to approach me and assault me (as you said that you would do if put that situation).
Last edited:
chevytaHOE5674
New member
Bottom line the jury found him not guilty. Whats done is done.
You defend your life anyway you choose. I'll defend mine how I choose.
You defend your life anyway you choose. I'll defend mine how I choose.
L
lenny
Guest
L
lenny
Guest
why would you call the police, you yourself said it's not illegal to follow someone. So your gonna call for no reason?
I said in a few different instances if someone is following me they better give me an explanation. I never said I would blast someone in the face as soon as I seen them. If someone was following me and I wanted an explanation I believe I would get one. In most instances the guy doing the following should take the initiative to explain his interest. This gun toting goon screwed up so bad and made so many mistakes it's a miracle only one guy is dead.
I made reference to being on someone like a mad man if they were messing with my wife or children and most the population would be feeling the same, sorry that i will protect my family.
Last edited:
Lenny just remember you are no good to your family dead, in jail, in hospital recovering from fight injuries or becoming a convicted felon. Sounds like you are ready to go to fisticuffs as saying you are old fashion & that is your way of thinking. This my friend is NOT a good lifestyle judgement & I hope you can learn a more peaceful way to live you life. Just saying it is not too late for you to change & you will anyway as you get older fighting will seem really dumb so many better available alternatives.
L
lenny
Guest
point taken and I appreciate your concern but at the same time I can say I have never started a fight, have always broke up fights. I will however stand my ground and take my chances. I will defend my family with my life. Once words are of no use you can run and leave your family behind or you can defend. If I am perused I will stand my ground. I have never thrown the first punch to this day but push me and that's a different story.
Last edited:
Lenny best advice I can give you is consider extraction from a bad situation not standing your ground. Your kids & wife don't want you involved in a fight & fighting will only scare & scar them emotionally. I have had loud words in my distant past with what I thought was an aggressor & all it did was scare the crap out of my kids & wife. From then on I thought "WOW" what was I thinking? Poor example of problem solving for my kids & could have resulted in a fight that could cost me my job & lifestyle. Dumb, dumb,dumb in everyway so just taught myself to keep myself under control never ever get in a fight unless my life or my families lives are threatened. So far has worked well for me just saying one does not have to fight & risk it all better to think communication & extraction not stand your ground & I do think that is what Obama was also trying to communicate to the public in his recent press conference.
chevytaHOE5674
New member
If I felt threatened why not call the police? They can come and figure out the situation, before anybody has to start throwing punches or choking people out. If the person that was following me had ill intentions then the police being there should make them think twice, and if the person following just happened to be going the same place as me then we can all just go on our merry ways.
To me that seems like a much better solution then "throwing punches" as you said you would have done.