Trayvon Martin

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lenny

Guest
If I felt threatened why not call the police? They can come and figure out the situation, before anybody has to start throwing punches or choking people out. If the person that was following me had ill intentions then the police being there should make them think twice, and if the person following just happened to be going the same place as me then we can all just go on our merry ways.

To me that seems like a much better solution then "throwing punches" as you said you would have done.

good chance you will not have the time and that is my point, sometimes matter need to be delt with because there is no time. I would use communication first, than whatever come next, anyways we have been sidetracked, my apologies
 

eagle1

Well-known member
Lenny, curious how you would have felt if GZ (shooter) had been female? Or say some one in late 60's?
Point is I think your looking at this through your abilities. What if you were attacked by someone physically ,superoir?
 

chevytaHOE5674

New member
good chance you will not have the time and that is my point, sometimes matter need to be delt with because there is no time. I would use communication first, than whatever come next, anyways we have been sidetracked, my apologies

If removing yourself from the situation, communication, and 911 are unavailable (because of time or just not working in the situation) then where we differ is in the "than whatever come next". In your case you would fight with somebody and accept the risk that you could get seriously injured or worse because you have no idea the other persons capabilities.

If the other options don't work then I would choose to defend my life with the use of deadly force same as GZ was forced to do when somebody was assaulting him.
 
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lenny

Guest
I take it you didn't click the link of GZ's examiner, a professional who stated under oath that GZ did not sustain significant injuries. Here it is again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sP_2OcpNQBo

Lenny, curious how you would have felt if GZ (shooter) had been female? Or say some one in late 60's?
Point is I think your looking at this through your abilities. What if you were attacked by someone physically ,superoir?

you are absolutely correct, each individual will see the threat in a different manner and should respond accordingly. An older weaker person will not have the edge of confidence and refrain from an altercation and rightfully so. Honestly I am not all that capable. I am 48 yrs old, 6'-1' 190 lbs. I made a decision years ago that I was not going to take crap any longer in my life. I will not be intimidated by a bully of forceful person. Our society has been crumbling and the responsible male has become striped of his masculinity for political correctness. I have said over and over in many thread that I stand for principle and will not waiver. If I am fearful of the odds against me I will run if I were alone (I'm not stupid) but some people need to learn a lesson and if I believe I can teach that lesson, school will be in session. When a person who initiates aggression towards another person and is meet with force, they will think twice next time they are confronted. If a person avoids conflict at all costs they do no one any favors. The type of person I would avoid strongly is an irate rampaging individual who has lost his cool, the odds of tragedy are great and not worth the risk, I'd high tail it outta there.

Point is you are right in all aspects, if I were meet with someone physically superior and I was not with my family, I'd keep my mouth shut and avoid the beating, keep my tail between my legs and sulk. If someone is following me and I have a threat of fear, pissed or whatever, I will confront the individual and ask what the problem is. If they start reaching in the pocket with no words they will eat elbows, knees before I see their hands come out of their pockets. If I see a weapon I will run. We will never know if TM threw the first punch. GZ said when he saw TM he frantically looked for his phone and I wonder what TM thought, here is a guy following me, I ask him what his problem and now he is reaching in his pockets. If that is indeed what happened I'd make darn sure GZ was not able to harm me.


GZ (5'-8", almost 200 lbs) is a 28 yr old male in the prime of his life who out weighted the 5'-11" 158 lb TM

If removing yourself from the situation, communication, and 911 are unavailable (because of time or just not working in the situation) then where we differ is in the "than whatever come next". In your case you would fight with somebody and accept the risk that you could get seriously injured or worse because you have no idea the other persons capabilities.

If the other options don't work then I would choose to defend my life with the use of deadly force same as GZ was forced to do when somebody was assaulting him.
You are right, I would fight them because there is no threat of great harm or death. So you would shoot them because you have no idea the other persons capabilities? You have never established great harm of fear for your life. You cannot just shoot a person because they showed up. You cannot shoot them because they are following you. You cannot shoot them because you are afraid of them.

EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN COMMUNICATING WITH ME ON THESE ISSUES, ARE YOU EVEN CLICKING THE LINKS I PROVIDE. PLEASE DO AS IT PROVIDES INSIGHT INTO THE THINKING OF BOTH INDIVIDUALS.
 
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yamahauler

Active member
I totally understand your position and agree but here is the kicker and I'll try this AGAIN. GZ said he feared for his life as a result of the aggressive head smashing he was receiving from TM yet his injuries do not indicate he was being assaulted as he described. GZ said life threatening and the doc said insignificant, was treated and released. So why does GZ feel his life is in danger and claims his head was repeatedly smashed into the sidewalk while sustaining insignificant injuries? Do you get my point? It's not as though he was backed into a corned by a gun or knife yielding criminal . A threat of death or great bodily harm is required, GZ said it existed because of a head smashing but under examination his injuries were deemed significant. GZ did receive some minor injuries to the back of his head and a reasonable assumption could be that he received punches to his head while on his back with his head on the sidewalk. GZ injuries are consistent with a dude in a scuffle and for GZ to fear for his life is a cop out.

I see your point but even if a doc says insignificant, how is one to know what is happening at that moment? I can easily see how one would fear for their life if someone is on top of them pounding away, you wouldn't?
 

united

Active member
I take it you didn't click the link of GZ's examiner, a professional who stated under oath that GZ did not sustain significant injuries. Here it is again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sP_2OcpNQBo

Watched it. The link shows the medical expert for the Prosecution (TM). In a trial both sides argue their cases or tell their side of the story and the jury decides how much they believe. The medical expert for the Defense (GZ), De Mayo, claimed that the injuries were consistent with six impacts to the sidewalk. The head was bloodied by something, that cannot be disputed.
 
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lenny

Guest
I see your point but even if a doc says insignificant, how is one to know what is happening at that moment? I can easily see how one would fear for their life if someone is on top of them pounding away, you wouldn't?

well, that's the clincher and a tough question to ask but one thing we do know is that GZ DID INDEED claim he was in a life death situation but truth is he wasn't. GZ made a decison to kill someone based on the beating he was receiving and we have learned the beating he received was insignificant. He may have preceived he was going to die but that is a slimchance. I believe he was aguy who wanted to make a difference but policing his community. I believe he was over zealous to try an do the right thing. I believe his over zealous attitude drove him to place himself into situation that he was not trained to be in. I believe he didn't posses the responsibility to carry a deadly weapon although legally he did. All this shows that a person like GZ should know better not to risk the lives of others by carring a gun when he is incapable of making tough decisions. He assumed TM was on drugs and was wrong. He assumed TM was up to no good and he was wrong. He assumed something was wrong with TM and he was wrong. He assumed TM was hiding a weapon in his waist line and he was wrong. This is my whole premise for this aspect of the debate. If he has no sense to even identify himself as neighborhood watch when he encounters a suspicious individual, how could one entrust him with a deadly weapon. Please please please listen to the police interview videos I pasted on here. Listen to the challenges they see concerning this case. I understand this is over and our debate will change nothing but the repercussions of this case can influence future cases. Making poor decisions along with carrying a gun is a dangerous combination and in this case one died and that is a big problem.
 
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lenny

Guest
I take it you didn't click the link of GZ's examiner, a professional who stated under oath that GZ did not sustain significant injuries. Here it is again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sP_2OcpNQBo

Watched it. The link shows the medical expert for the Prosecution (TM). In a trial both sides argue their cases or tell their side of the story and the jury decides how much they believe. The medical expert for the Defense (GZ), De Mayo, claimed that the injuries were consistent with six impacts to the sidewalk. The head was bloodied by something, that cannot be disputed.

oh, so what you are saying is that this doctor was biased or lied,,,I see. Maybe we needed a different medical doc for the defense!
 
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lenny

Guest
come on lenny time to give it up even Al Sharpton has gotten over it by now

not ready yet, discussion is good, communication is good. We all involve ourselves as much or little as we like.
 

polarisrider1

New member
Lenny, are you losing sleep over this? I am concerned for ya. I thought you said you was giving this topic up around a hundred or so posts ago. I am not a doctor but seems to be unhealthy. lol
 

chevytaHOE5674

New member
we have learned the beating he received was insignificant.

Have you ever thought that the beating was calling "insignificant" by that Doctor because GZ neutralized the threat before his injuries got any worse?

Had GZ not shot how long would the fight continued? 1,2,5,10,20 minutes? And at what length and severity do you consider it significant? Unlike an MMA fight there is no Ref, Doctor, and EMS standing there waiting and breaking it up before the injuries get severe.


From your arm chair after the fact it is very easy to say the injuries were "insignificant". At the time when a stranger was on top of him throwing punches I would say that everything was "significant".
 
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lenny

Guest
Have you ever thought that the beating was calling "insignificant" by that Doctor because GZ neutralized the threat before his injuries got any worse?

Had GZ not shot how long would the fight continued? 1,2,5,10,20 minutes? And at what length and severity do you consider it significant? Unlike an MMA fight there is no Ref, Doctor, and EMS standing there waiting and breaking it up before the injuries get severe.


yes,, I have thought of that but the fact is your life has to be in danger before you can legally kill someone. I call what has transpired as insignificant and remember, GZ called it life threatening

From your arm chair after the fact it is very easy to say the injuries were "insignificant". At the time when a stranger was on top of him throwing punches I would say that everything was "significant".

yes,, I have thought of that but the fact is your life has to be in danger or great bodily harm before you can legally kill someone. I call what has transpired as insignificant as stated by a medical examiner,,,,, and remember, GZ called it life threatening,,,was it? NO! He just pussed out and gave up
 
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lenny

Guest
Lenny, are you losing sleep over this? I am concerned for ya. I thought you said you was giving this topic up around a hundred or so posts ago. I am not a doctor but seems to be unhealthy. lol

not at all, a person died and that is worth debating over. I worked most the day and yesterday I had a surprise, friends from Illinois came up and we just sat around yesterday, I did work a few hrs. Seriously I am fine, it's just a matter of life and death situation and if we can learn from each other here we may be able to avoid some serious hardship in the future. Thanks for the concern, you da man Wayne!
 

chevytaHOE5674

New member
yes,, I have thought of that but the fact is your life has to be in danger or great bodily harm before you can legally kill someone. I call what has transpired as insignificant as stated by a medical examiner,,,,, and remember, GZ called it life threatening,,,was it? NO! He just pussed out and gave up

After all is said and done and the dust has settled you can say that the injuries were "insignificant" and that his life wasn't in danger.

But what matters at that moment was did he feel his life was in danger, not what some guy 6 months later and 2000 miles away thinks.

I will be the first to say I've never been in a fight before, only punches I've thrown were to my brother as a young kid messing around. If somebody was on top of my throwing punches I too would "puss" out and defend my life because I can't see the future to know what will or won't happen as a result of being attacked.
 

polarisrider1

New member
not at all, a person died and that is worth debating over. I worked most the day and yesterday I had a surprise, friends from Illinois came up and we just sat around yesterday, I did work a few hrs. Seriously I am fine, it's just a matter of life and death situation and if we can learn from each other here we may be able to avoid some serious hardship in the future. Thanks for the concern, you da man Wayne!

Naw! you da Man Lenny! :)
 
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