Trayvon Martin

D

Deleted member 10829

Guest
I would like to thank the main stream media into making this about race, fricken idiots. And if I hear "unarmed teenager, or as I heard this morning, unarmed BLACK teenager" one more time, I am going to puke.

Or how about calling GZ a "white" Hispanic? That's a new term that we had never heard before. The media manufactured this into a race issue. GZ was Hispanic, but in order to fit their narrative, they came up with "White Hispanic"! Does that mean our President is a White African American? Can you imagine if anyone called him that? The media would ruin that person's life in a day. And then you have guys like Al Sharpton, but I will bite my tongue.


It looks like I was misled on that photo above too. But my point was they painted TM as this innocent young boy and GZ as an aggressive racist. Both descriptions were way off.
 
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jerkbait_1075

New member
As earlier stated this is our system of justice and compared to other systems in other countries we should all cherish it very much. I have been in law enforcement for 20 years. I have lost many cases that I know beyond a doubt that the suspect was guilty. The fact of the matter is the prosecution in this case simply over charged with the 2nd degree murder charge. I said that from day one way before the court process even began. The burden in a murder charge for proof is very high. As it should be...... As a juror you have a choice to make. You can sit on that jury and follow the law, and your jury instructions and make a decision based on those standards no matter how hard or contrary that decision is compared to what you "really know occurred" or you can choose to be a juror that "freelances" and makes decisions based on how you "feel" or what "you believed happened" as a juror. Like it or not this jury got it RIGHT based on the law and our system.

Myself I have a lot of issues with George Zimmerman and his actions and HIS CHOICES that lead to this incident. But none of them made him responsible for a 2nd degree murder charge. This was a case of Involuntary Manslaughter or some similar Florida statute from day one.

Political or societal pressure made them charge the 2nd degree murder charge and the ability to meet that burden simply wasn't there
 

ezra

Well-known member
isn't GZ the guy taking action as a watch guy. HE perused someone who he thought was a problem. GZ called the police and was instructed to stay in car and
wait for police. Was GZ trying to and demanding TM be detained. I like guns and believe we all should own as many as we like but when you see a guy walking around doing nothing wrong does not indicate a serious situation. Just saying this sort of thing didn't need to happen. GZ probably could have made a better decision and avoided the conflict and allowed the police to handle it. Would a guy be dead if the police rolled up on the situation,,,I highly doubt it. Manslaughter should of been the verdict IMO. I may be wrong, not defending TM or condemning GZ, but just seems lie some common sense was not used and there could have been a better way.
George was not the one who turned around and back tracked to start a fight.
 

jonesin

Well-known member
lenny,
what if, what if, what if
what if gz didn't get out of his car and the thug tm broke into his neighbors house and killed, raped, stole ...... what if, what if,
the FACT is tm ATTACKED, what if gz didnt' shoot him and died? then the "young child" thug would have been charged with murder as an adult. I'm sick of the media acting as if this 6'-2, 180# man was a pimple faced kid
just my $.02
 
D

Deleted member 10829

Guest
The prosecution's whole case was built on "what ifs", thus they lost. Well said jonesin.
 

whitedust

Well-known member
You carry heat & get in a fight with zero self defense skills & get your *** handed to you the heat will be used to defend yourself. I don't support carrying guns in public & if you threaten someone in a disagreement raise your hand to a stranger there is a good chance you will be absorbing bullets. You have to be careful now days use your words or know when to just walk away disengage. Is whatever really worth fighting about when guns can be involved & you should assume guns could be involved in WI? To me no & don't get in those situations why be dead right but still dead or go to court & jail just bad judgement.IMO You would be surprised how many guns are carried on the snomo trails in both WI & MI. I have a neighbor that carries a side arm everyday to walk his dog.....never smiles, never talks. Recently he had a visit from the police for throwing rocks at cars that went by his home going too fast in his opinion. This guy is a medical doctor so he his not uneducated but still a whacko IMO. I carry a nice sharp pig sticker in my pocket at all times more of an everyday tool for me but if attacked by anything I would use it for self defense no doubt about that.
 

fish633

New member
1.when your being attacked you don't wait until you are breathing your last breath to draw your weapon and shoot!
2.Al and Jessie need to be permanantly jailed if one person is injured in the name of T.M.as retribution.Anyone else that spews such venomous crap would be jailed for any number of offenses.
3.NBC needs to be sue'd out of existence for their manipulation of the 911 call.Hey FCC revoke NBC's broadcast license.
4.Holder needs to be fired and prosecuted for his role in the justice dept. paid protest's.He alone was trying the case in the public court.That's a bozo no-no Eric.you stupid moron!
5.Whatever happened to those two poor impoverished youth's that SHOT AND KILLED A 13 MONTH OLD BABY IN THE FACE.What you sayin bout that Eric?
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
Ahhh...but you are forgetting one fact...if George Zimmerman had stayed in his car AS REQUESTED BY THE POLICE there would be no murder, no need for self defense, no altercation.
He had absolutely no reason to get out of his car...NONE!
Zimmerman caused the entire explosive situation. There was no crime being committed. Police were called. Zimmerman caused the entire event by getting out of his car

George did what he had to do.and Eric Holder is a Terrorist supporting leftist with a hard hard leftist agenda and 80% of this circus is coming from his office.
this is what Ted Nugent has to say and I agree.
So this guy’s neighborhood has been burglarized off and on and the residents are very concerned for their safety and well-being. Neighbors agree to upkick their vigilance and overall level of awareness to watch out for each other and keep an eye out for suspicious individuals and behavior. It could be considered by an official designation such as “Neighborhood Watch”, but officially labeled or not, it is the purest form of Americans watching out for each other and being good neighbors.

So far so good.

So George Zimmerman sees what he believes is a suspicious individual in suspicious circumstances, and intelligently and responsibly pays attention and calls 9-1-1 to report what he sees to the officials. This gesture is proof positive he was not looking to do anyone harm or break any laws, but rather perform the fundamental responsibility of a neighbor who cares.

Doing nothing illegal or improper, he follows the individual while answering all the questions from the 9-1-1 operator to the best of his ability, keeping an eye on the individual so the authorities can hopefully intercept and determine exactly what is going on.

For reasons unknown, though I will comment on momentarily, after expressing racism and hostility on the phone to a friend in response to being followed, the suspect now changes course and turns towards George and immediately initiates a hostile verbal confrontation that quickly escalate to a violent physical assault. Within seconds, the suspect has overwhelmed George, has gained the advantage on top, pinning George to the ground, and further escalates the assault to deadly force by smashing George’s face, breaking his nose, and violently slamming his skull onto the concrete with all his youthful athleticism.

George screams frantically for help as Trayvon Martin pummels his face and head furiously, inflicting damaging and potentially life threatening wounds. Fearing for his life and about to lose consciousness at the hands of an enraged, violent attacker, George Zimmerman does what anyone who wishes to live would do, and he reaches for his concealed handgun, firing a single shot to neutralize the deadly force being wreaked upon him.

This represents the purest form of self-defense there is. It is exactly why people who believe in good over evil carry a gun to protect themselves from the well documented violence that plagues our country, in order to save our lives from a life threatening attack. Period.

Based on all evidence available to them, the professional law enforcement officers did not hold George Zimmerman on charges later that night. They saw it for what it was: cut and dried self-defense.

And so it was for a few weeks until the race-baiting industry saw an opportunity to further the racist careers of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, the Black Panthers. President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder, et al, who then swept down on the Florida community refusing to admit that the 17-year-old dope smoking, racist gangsta wannabe Trayvon Martin was at all responsible for his bad decisions and standard modus operendi of always taking the violent route.

With an obvious racist chip on his shoulder, referencing the neighborhood watch guy as a “creepy *** cracker” to his fellow racist female friend who admitted under oath that that is how non-blacks are referred to normally in their circles, Trayvon had no reason not to attack, because it was the standard thug thing to do. See Chicago any day of the week.

With nearly 700 examples of this truism played out in Chicago in 2012 alone, no one can possibly dispute the recent surge in black racism increasing throughout Barack Obama’s presidency. To attempt to claim otherwise is a laughable lie.

The jury got it right, and non-racist America rejoices that there is still common sense, honesty and decency aware of identifying justice in this country. America also believes that the entire prosecutorial team should be ashamed of themselves and disbarred for ignoring the obvious and kowtowing to the pure racism that forced the politically correct lie that only black lives killed by non-blacks matter, which is why there are no headlines, no protests, no prosecutions and no Barak Obama or Eric Holder meddling in the nonstop black-on-black slaughter in their gun-free zone of Chicago.

Martin Luther King Jr. is rolling over in his grave that he sacrificed his life for the cause of judging people by the content of their character instead of the color of their skin, as so many of his own race carry in in self-destructive behavior while professional race mongers blame everything on racism. It is painful and heartbreaking to say and write this, but horrifically it is true. Blacks kill more blacks in a weekend in Chicago than the evil, vile Ku Klux Klan idiots did in 50 years. Truly earth shattering insane. And not a peep from Obama or Holder. Tragic.

The only racism on that night was perpetrated by Trayvon Martin, and everybody knows it.

Here’s the lesson from all this, America: Teach your children to not attack people for no good reason whatsoever. Conduct yourself in a responsible, civil manner, and everything will be just fine. Try to kill someone and that someone just may be exercising his or her Second Amendment rights and you could get shot. It’s called self-defense, and it is the oldest, strongest and most righteous instinct and God-given right known to man.

NUGENT: Zimmerman verdict vindicates citizen patrols, self-defense
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
Yup. What TM was, or used to be, has no bearing on the facts. He was doing nothing wrong, Zimmerman got out of the car and an altercation ensued. HAd he stayed in the car Martin would be alive.


I'm not saying these things because I think they need to go after GZ. I also do not think this is a racial issue. I'm not gonna jump on the band wagon because most other white people think like Ted N. Most black people see the verdict as an injustice which is unfortunate.

Listen, even if the guy was a thug, makes no matter. Ay 17 yr old has options and opportunity to straighten up. Looking at his past does not justify his death as his past didn't indicate a violent guy. I am doing my best to look at this through reason, as a father, as a man who avoids conflict as best as I can. Just seems extreme that someone had to die over an altercation, worst case scenario happened, could it have been avoided? Didn't dispatch tell GZ to remain in the car? If he had followed what he was informed to do, would all this been avoided. What exactly was TM doing that justified such strong interest in him?
 

whitedust

Well-known member
No law preventing a person from getting out of his car in his neighborhood to check a road sign as stated by GZ. Sure more happened after that but only GZ & TM know what exactly happened when they came face to face. We only know the result of the encounter nothing more & like it or not by law it was a self defense encounter no matter who started it & that is the point of law the jury was held to in the FL court. Like it or not it is over & done & we should all learn from this what not to do & don't look for trouble you just might find it......Then what??
 

ezra

Well-known member
Ahhh...but you are forgetting one fact...if George Zimmerman had stayed in his car AS REQUESTED BY THE POLICE there would be no murder, no need for self defense, no altercation.
He had absolutely no reason to get out of his car...NONE!
Zimmerman caused the entire explosive situation. There was no crime being committed. Police were called. Zimmerman caused the entire event by getting out of his car
so u say how do u know that ?
travon turned around to start something he could have gone home but did not want to.
he turned around went back to start some ****.
do u know T M would not have just knocked on the car window to start the fight?
George was not the confronter he has just as much right to walk around his neighborhood no more of a right to walk around his gated neighborhood than TM who was cutting through.
George could have stayed home just watched tv and just let his neighborhood turn to total crap true.
but instead he was doing what more people should be doing in neighborhoods on the decline.
TM was on the fast track to thug life and I have no doubt would have gone after the "cracker" if he was in his car or just close to it.a car is not a safe room.
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
Ahh, but I disagree...this case was clearly a stand your ground case. In order to understand it you must read the statute to understand the difference between victim and assailant. The issue here is that GZ was clearly the assailant until TM beat the crap out of him. The Florida statute then provides for the former assailant who now feels in danger to defend himself if he feels in danger. And that was THE question..had the roles of victim and assailant changed enough so as to invoke that clause of the statute. Jury said "yes' it had.

But, what we do know is that if Zimmerman had stayed in his car AS DIRECTED BY THE POLICE,he would not have killed Martin.

Why did he get out of his car?
Was a crime being committed? No
Was he in danger? No
Had the police asked him to confront Martin? No, they asked him to stay in his car.

Regardless of whatever innuendo, facts, or race issues you guys or anyone else wants to bring up, if George Zimmerman had stayed in his car a 17 year old boy who was committing no crime and posing no threat would not have been shot by Zimmerman, the person who started the whole chain of events.

This should have never gone to a trial. As in any self defense case the shooter is going to jail, statements and an investigation are started. In the investigation the police and the prosecutor after looking over all the evidence said it was self defense. G.Z. was released. Only after political pressure the Governor appoints a prosecutor and puts a Grand Jury together to look at the case again. If the Grand Jury looks at the evidence it lily would come to the same conclusion. In this case the new prosecutor failed to what for the outcome of the Grand Jury. The political and media pressure and a poor prosecutor moved ahead and over charged anything they could come close to proving.
Also the media is still reporting incorrectly. This was never heard as a stand your ground case. It was a self deference case.
Look at G.Z. past he is not a racist. He has mentored dated and lived with blacks. T.M. had drug records, fought and refereed street fights.
 
D

Deleted member 10829

Guest
Yup. What TM was, or used to be, has no bearing on the facts. He was doing nothing wrong, Zimmerman got out of the car and an altercation ensued. HAd he stayed in the car Martin would be alive.

That may be, but that doesn't make GZ guilty of 2nd degree murder. The same could be said for TM. Had he just continued to walk home rather than ambush GZ and start the fight, he would be alive today and GZ's life would not have been ruined by the media. Would anyone want to be GZ today? He's getting punished plenty.
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
Going home is exactly what he was trying to do! The assailant is Zimmerman, not Martin! Zimmerman became the assailant by getting out of his car. The roles reversed when Martin beat the crap out of him. Had Zimmerman stayed in his car Martin would not have been shot...the entire chain of events would have never been set in motion.

Read the Florida statute!

Could it have been avoided if TM had just gone home if he felt so threatened? You can't convict a guy for getting out of his car. If TM does not confront him and start the fight, none of this happens either, and the jury agreed.
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
Zimmerman caused the entire scenario to unfold by getting out of his car for no reason. No crime, no threat. Cops asked him to stay in has car. He didn't. Altercation. Kid dead. STAY IN THE CAR!

George was not the one who turned around and back tracked to start a fight.
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
So, if I follow your logic I should be able to shoot anybody at all on any street because they might commit a crime?
Martin was committing no crime, posing no threat. And he's dead.
Zimmerman should have stayed in the car
You guys tired of hearing that yet? :)

lenny,
what if, what if, what if
what if gz didn't get out of his car and the thug tm broke into his neighbors house and killed, raped, stole ...... what if, what if,
the FACT is tm ATTACKED, what if gz didnt' shoot him and died? then the "young child" thug would have been charged with murder as an adult. I'm sick of the media acting as if this 6'-2, 180# man was a pimple faced kid
just my $.02
 
D

Deleted member 10829

Guest
Ahh, but I disagree...this case was clearly a stand your ground case.

Did you follow the case? It sounds like you did. The defense did not even bring up the stand your ground law as part of their case, it was all self defense. They even waived their right to a hearing prior to the trial on the Stand Your Ground law in FL, which could have thrown the case out, but they declined. They based their entire defense on self defense and the terrible lack of evidence by the prosecution. I haven't heard one person that is an expert in this area say he should have been convicted of 2nd degree murder, the evidence just wasn't there. The Police Chief that was fired for not arresting GZ and the first prosecutor that would not prosecute the case due to lack of evidence, have both been vindicated! Then the prosecutor fires their IT person recently for telling on them for not turning over all the evidence to the defense. She should be disbarred!
 

whitedust

Well-known member
Sure if GZ had a cold & stayed in bed that day they never would have met. If TM ate his skittles & drank his iced tea slower maybe time & space would have been different. GZ got out of his car to check the name of the road & stuff happened no one can turn back the clock with what ifs. It is all about the facts not what ifs.
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
How do I know that? By the evidence. The recording of the police call says "We don't need you to do that." Meaning stay in the car. Fact, ezra, fact. The altercation would never have happened if GZ had stayed in the car. Martin was walking down the street to go home. He posed no current threat to Zimmerman. He was doing nothing wrong. Zimmerman caused the entire chain of events to unfold...not Martin.

Martin may have become the aggressor in the fight, and may have started the fight. But the altercation never would have happened if Zimmerman had stayed in the car AS DIRECTED BY POLICE.

so u say how do u know that ?
travon turned around to start something he could have gone home but did not want to.
he turned around went back to start some ****.
do u know T M would not have just knocked on the car window to start the fight?
George was not the confronter he has just as much right to walk around his neighborhood no more of a right to walk around his gated neighborhood than TM who was cutting through.
George could have stayed home just watched tv and just let his neighborhood turn to total crap true.
but instead he was doing what more people should be doing in neighborhoods on the decline.
TM was on the fast track to thug life and I have no doubt would have gone after the "cracker" if he was in his car or just close to it.a car is not a safe room.
 
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D

Deleted member 10829

Guest
So, if I follow your logic I should be able to shoot anybody at all on any street because they might commit a crime?
Martin was committing no crime, posing no threat. And he's dead.
Zimmerman should have stayed in the car
You guys tired of hearing that yet? :)

So, if I follow your logic, GZ is guilty because he got out of the car? LOL You aren't a lawyer I hope?
 
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