Trayvon Martin

dcsnomo

Moderator
True...very true.
But waht was the one event that caused th fight to eventually happen? Zimmerman getting out of his car
Who is the only person who could have prevented it? Zimmerman
No crime, no threat, no reason to disobey police and cause the altercation

That may be, but that doesn't make GZ guilty of 2nd degree murder. The same could be said for TM. Had he just continued to walk home rather than ambush GZ and start the fight, he would be alive today and GZ's life would not have been ruined by the media. Would anyone want to be GZ today? He's getting punished plenty.
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
No, you are not following my logic at all. My logic is that the entire chain of events was set into motion by Zimmerman getting out of his car. I did not, in any of my posts claim either party was guilty or not guilty. My posts have been very clear and of a singular focus...once again...had Zimmerman stayed in his car as directed by police the entire chain of events would never have been set into motion.

And that is the logic in my argument.

So, if I follow your logic, GZ is guilty because he got out of the car? LOL You aren't a lawyer I hope?
 

dcsnomo

Moderator

sixball

New member
T.M. could have confronted G.Z. in a peaceful manner and likely nothing would have happened.
Hay white as- cracker why are you watching me? G.Z. We have had a rash of crime hear I don't know you are you from around this area. T.M. ya staying at this apartment.
Maybe all would have walked away. T.M. used poor judgment when he started a fight.
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
But why did the confrontation happen? Because Zimmerman got out of the car. Read the transcript of the call to 911. Zimmerman says Martin is running AWAY...not towards...Away. The police asked if Zimmerman was chasing the kid and he says "Yes". Zimmerman is chasing, Martin is fleeing. No crime. No threat. Zimmerman gets out of the car and stats chasing Martin. And that caused the confrontation.

T.M. could have confronted G.Z. in a peaceful manner and likely nothing would have happened.
Hay white as- cracker why are you watching me? G.Z. We have had a rash of crime hear I don't know you are you from around this area. T.M. ya staying at this apartment.
Maybe all would have walked away. T.M. used poor judgment when he started a fight.
 

yamahauler

Active member
It wouldn't be clear that no crime had been committed, it just wasn't being committed at that second. Crimes had been committed in the past, hence the reason for the heightened awareness of who is in the neighborhood that shouldn't be.

Also, the link to the pic by Lenny is actually rapper Jayceon Taylor aka Game
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
You are correct, Zimmerman is the guy who got out of his car against the request of the 911 dispatcher and started chasing a kid who posed no threat and had committed no crime and had a legitimate right to be there. Read the transcript of the 911 call

George was not the one who turned around and back tracked to start a fight.
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
So anyway...this has been fun!

I think you know what my response will be and what my position is. And as explained to mspease I have not assumed any position of guilt or innocence for either party.

People have to be responsible for their decisions.

From a big picture perspective I ask the question "what was the chain of events that caused the altercation to happen, and who is responsible for that decision to put this chain of events in motion?"

The answer to that is clearly Zimmerman. Had he stayed in the car the altercation would not have happened.

Did Zimmerman make a "good" decision to pursue based upon the facts in the case? No, it was a bad decision. No crime, no threat, no danger, police on the way, kid had every right to be there. It was a hotheaded decision for a person under no threat to pursue a kid and do so with a loaded weapon.

Zimmerman made the bad decision.
Zimmerman acted on his bad decision.
Zimmerman caused the altercation by chasing Martin.
If he had stayed in the car Martin would have never had to make the bad decision to accost Zimmerman and get killed.

But if you look at all the things that went on and lay them out in a logical fashion the one thing that caused the altercation was Zimmerman's decision to get out of the car and chase Martin. That was the first rock to roll down the hill. Maybe he's guilty of manslaughter, maybe he's guilty of assault. Maybe he's guilty of being stupid.

But he killed a kid. Whether the kid was white, green, or black has absolutely no bearing on it. The kid committed no crime and had every right to be where he was. And when Zimmerman got out of the car he started a chain of events that ended up with the kid dead.

Walking down the street, minding his own business...dead.
 

whitedust

Well-known member

dcsnomo

Moderator
Yeah, I agree with you totally. I think Zimmerman was tried on the wrong charge. I think he should have been tried for assault for the act of chasing Martin

Yep nothing new here that a jury would care about in a self defense case of murder 2 or man slaughter it all comes down to the moment TM was raining blows on GZ & the choice GZ made at that time to defend himself. It had a very sad result but I do understand why the jury came back with a not guilty verdit.
 

whitedust

Well-known member
Yeah, I agree with you totally. I think Zimmerman was tried on the wrong charge. I think he should have been tried for assault for the act of chasing Martin

Yes assault & battery or aggravated assault would probably brought a guilty verdict but that was not the charge unfortunately. Over zealous prosecutor or politically charged event led to the incorrect charges or both but never murder 2.
 

jonesin

Well-known member
So, if I follow your logic I should be able to shoot anybody at all on any street because they might commit a crime?
Martin was committing no crime, posing no threat. And he's dead.
Zimmerman should have stayed in the car
You guys tired of hearing that yet? :)

thats funny, i was reading your posts and wondered if you read mine.
each of yours is the same what if, what if, what if..... but you are ignoring the FACTS
my logic doesn't have anything to do with shooting whoever you want, I was simply debunking the logic used by tm defenders like yourself and lenny and showing it to be a rediculous defense, it could work both ways
what occurred is regretable, but tm brought it upon himself when he ATTACKED gz. bottom line is that if that one act had not occurred, he would be alive, unless of course WHAT IF he decided to run away like he was told and got hit by a car and killed
hey, its kind of fun doing what ifs, you cant be wrong!
 

jonesin

Well-known member
dcs
you keep saying if gz stayed in the car but..... here it comes...ready....
WHAT IF tm had stayed in the street instead of sneaking around between the houses, this would never of happened
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
All in good fun, but I challenge you to read my posts and tell me how I am a TM defender. I never defended TM. If Zimmerman had stayed in his car then there never would have been an altercation. Period. Fact. The two people would not have met in that place and time.

Whether or not he gets hit by a bus or killed by another person is totally extraneous to my case.

I stand by my case. Zimmerman set it in motion, he made the bad decision.

As they say in logic class "QED"
Later! :eek:

thats funny, i was reading your posts and wondered if you read mine.
each of yours is the same what if, what if, what if..... but you are ignoring the FACTS
my logic doesn't have anything to do with shooting whoever you want, I was simply debunking the logic used by tm defenders like yourself and lenny and showing it to be a rediculous defense, it could work both ways
what occurred is regretable, but tm brought it upon himself when he ATTACKED gz. bottom line is that if that one act had not occurred, he would be alive, unless of course WHAT IF he decided to run away like he was told and got hit by a car and killed
hey, its kind of fun doing what ifs, you cant be wrong!
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
Sure, what if Zimmerman had had sex with his wife that evening and arrived at the scene 15 minutes later? What if Martin had stopped to smoke a spliff and missed Zimmerman?

Extraneous

Zimmerman is the catalyst.

QED!

dcs
you keep saying if gz stayed in the car but..... here it comes...ready....
WHAT IF tm had stayed in the street instead of sneaking around between the houses, this would never of happened
 

jonesin

Well-known member
Sure, what if Zimmerman had had sex with his wife that evening and arrived at the scene 15 minutes later? What if Martin had stopped to smoke a spliff and missed Zimmerman?

Extraneous

Zimmerman is the catalyst.

QED!
i just don't understand how he is the catalyst, this never would have happened w/o tm being there or acosting gz, doen't make sense
what does QED mean?
 
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