anonomoose
New member
If anyone would pay attention it should be NASH...this is happen'n at his back door.
So what's got everyone all roiled up out there?
So what's got everyone all roiled up out there?
What's the skinny on the new AZ immigration law??
- Thread starter anonomoose
- Start date
I LOVE the fact that AZ is standing up for them self enforcing the law.I understand the new enforcement laws have a 70% approval ratting with AZ citizens. well looks like a majority to me and we are a nation of states with states rights to govern so the fed should keep there a$$ out of it unless they intend to do the job they have neglected to do for decades
polarisrider1
New member
True story. I agree with ezra again. wow! lol.
My post will attempt to answer the specific question asked. Here is an excerpt from the law:
B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).
What's got everybody "roiled up" is the clause "WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT." So the problem is defining what the criteria is to determine the person might be illegal. By looking at a person, the policeman must determine if there is reasonable suspicion. But since there is no defining physical characteristic between a citizen and an illegal, the policeman will use arbitrary judgement in enforcing the law.
Many fear that this will increase racial profiling, that is, if you are Hispanic you will be subject to the law, if you are Anglo you will not. Think about it...if you are a Hispanic male age 20 in a low rider at 2:00 AM will you have a higher chance of being subject to this law than a white 57 year old male in a Mercedes at 2:00 AM? If both of these drivers committed the same offense, what criteria would you use to determine whether one or both or neither creates "reasonable suspicion" in your mind?
Many of you on this board rant on and on about your rights as a citizen...my right to carry a gun, my right to drive a sled on public lands, my right to smoke in a bar, etc. Now it's time for the flip side. ALL American CITIZENS have the same rights regardless of race. a Hispanic CITIZEN, a Lebanese CITIZEN, a white CITIZEN all have the same rights. Illegal immigrants do not. But there is no defining physical characteristic that a policeman can use to "suspect" illegality. When pressed on this issue, Gov Jan Brewer said "I do not know what an illegal immigrant looks like."
American citizens, regardless of race, do not have to carry proof of citizenship, which is different than proof of residency. What criteria does the policeman use to ask for proof if one person is named Jose Garcia vs another named Joseph Smith?
Might it be race?
An I.D. is not proof of citizenship, it is proof of residence. Two totally different things. A drivers license does NOT prove citizenship.
Ezra, you are riding a sled at 65 MPH at night in WI. DNR pulls you over for speeding and demands to see proof of citizenship. There are 2 documents that will work...birth certificate and passport. Since US law does not require a citizen to carry either, you don't have them.
Would you be happy?
Would you scream about your rights?
US citizens have the right to move about freely and are not required to carry proof of citizenship. Since there are no discerning physical characteristics between a citizen and an illegal the policeman must make a discretionary choice to enforce the law...based upon what? What is the characteristic that makes an illegal physically different? Hmmmm, I don't know, but race might enter into it.
anonomoose
New member
Let me push the "easy button" here. Anyone who is worried that they might be racially profiled, can simply go down and change their name.
End of the issue!
Am I right??
End of the issue!
Am I right??
Is it wrong to assume just because someone is Mexican that they are in AZ illegally? Yes it is. But, everyone knows the illegals that we are all discussing are Mexicans. I am sorry, but that is the truth. Nobody wants to come right out and say it. I don't see a huge problem on our northern border with "illegals", do any of you? Didn't think so.
I am all for this new law in AZ, the majority of people in AZ approve of it, and THEY are the ones dealing with the flood of illegals. Texas is thinking of doing the same thing, and so is Oklahoma. I have no problem with anyone coming to the states and wanting to be a U.S. citizen. Just do it legally!
I am all for this new law in AZ, the majority of people in AZ approve of it, and THEY are the ones dealing with the flood of illegals. Texas is thinking of doing the same thing, and so is Oklahoma. I have no problem with anyone coming to the states and wanting to be a U.S. citizen. Just do it legally!
you are corect about a dl not being proof of citizenship but if you don't have one it could be a flag if your dl says your name is bill smith a 20 yr old blond with green eyes and you look 40 with black hair could be a flag .if you are a migrant worker you are required to carry a green card.and if there were 10mill Nordic looking guys crossing the border and the state I was in was cracking the whip I would start carrying my birth certificate and passport.
And he doesn't have a problem with it! If nothing else, maybe it'll get the feds off their dead butts and do their job! We had a rancher killed down near the border within the last week or so is what got this started up.
Yeah, but if your name is Jose Garcia and you look like Jose Garcia and you are Jose Garcia and your drivers license says you are Jose Garcia and you were born in Phoenix and you work for United Airlines and you have a wife and two kids and a mortgage and a home in suburbia why are you being asked to prove your citizenship when ezra from Minnesota blew through the same stop sign and wasn't asked?
I am in line on this fix the immigration problem thing, but this law has a serious flaw. Ezra, maybe I don't understand it so you tell me...What does an illegal immigrant look like?
This is America, and ezra, as the staunch defender of rights and small government I am disappointed in you! If you allow the government to "by practice" take away the rights of a group of citizens then you are in a danger of losing many more fundamental rights.
If the law said "any person in the state of AZ stopped by a cop for any reason will be required to prove citizenship" then I am in favor of it! But to have this law base the suspicion on appearance is a travesty.
C'mom ezra...what does an illegal alien look like?
BTW Nash, I agree if it gets the feds off their butts. But it won't because the economic impact of reducing the workforce by 7% would be too great. Can you imagine what would happen to food prices if you replace the $7/hr illegal immigrant in the fields or meat plants with the $20/hr laid off manufacturing employee?
Can you imagine the impact on an economy that has 42% of its GDP from retail sales and you remove 11 million consumers from it? That is the equivalent of taking the entire state of Ohio out of the economy.
Before you pound me too hard, I agree it needs to be fixed. But how? I don't want to spend $20/lb for my steak, or see the round of layoffs when the economy looses 11 million consumers.
what ever your name is is not important a cop dose not have to run your licence every time he pulls you over but if you start giving fishy answers he is going to go back to the car to check you out right?so what is the prob we give cops the right to look in to our criminal background any time you are stopped it is a judgment call if you think the cop is qualified to make that judgment call then why is he not qualified to make a judgment call based on the same hunches and experience of reading people to make a call to the immigration dept just like he gets your criminal history from typing in your dl#.AZ is not making new laws just making existing laws enforceable buy local officials instead of relying on the fed to do the job they are payed to do and refuse to do.gotta love the border patrol killed last night in AZ really helping the immigration argument on this may day. lets not be naive we all know why the current administration is so apposed to this amendment to current law.
G
G
Guest
If things would not have gotten so out of hand to begin with there might not have to be a law like this. Right now it seems like there really is no border between the US and Mexico. They wander up to get a job picking some vegetable that a US citizen will not lower him/herself to do. Maybe they have a baby or two while they are here. Then they wander back to Mexico. It has been a very weird situation for decades. It is also one of the major reasons California is close to bankruptcy. The good people of California think the AZ law is terrible and they want to boycott AZ for it. Right or wrong this is going to be a continuing condition/battle for awhile.
I agree. It is a weird situation, to use your words. The government says they want secure borders, but in 2008 the government audited a whopping 700 employers throughout the nation, and fined 18. Woo, woo, that ought to solve the problem! Better than 2006 when they fined 0!
Seems to me if you want to stem the flow of illegal immigrants you cut off the jobs. But then, we pay $20 a pound for our steak!
At our work place we have had a quite a few Spanish workers. A lot of them have been eliminated because they couldn't prove they were here legally. The argument that our meat would cost $20/lb. and our economy would suffer greatly is a little week if we booted them all out of the country. They the illegals are here for one reason and that is to make a bunch of money and take it back or send it to Mexico! So, how much money doo they spend here really, how much stays here? Why doo you think they have so many people living in the same house? To keep their out of pocket money as low as possible!
I hope every state takes up the AZ law. Why has it taken this long?
I hope every state takes up the AZ law. Why has it taken this long?