WI Trail Funding Poll

[powderburner]

The boys and girls in Madison wont let us raise the the Wisconsin resident stickers. We may be able to get a raise in the non-resident sticker. After all Minnesota gets $45 for there pass. But the real money is in the gas tax. It is based on a sled using 50 gal of gas per year. That sales tax brings in over 4 million into the snowmobile fund. Get that changed to 100 gal.per sled. and our funding is in much better shape. We could raise the maintence from $250 to $300 to help out the southern clubs. And raise the $750 cap to $1000 to help out the northern clubs. And if the DOT doesnt want to gives us more of our tax money tell them to stop giving grants to user groops that dont pay any gas tax.

This is the answer. You have to get a bigger allotment from the transportation fund.

CAP/STEP is a joke. What people fail to see is the administrative nightmare that this is. This WILL add a tremendous amount of overhead to the process and IIRC, is the reason it fails to pass the legislature.

Trail stickers? No thanks; much easier to bury that tax in to the existing snowmobile registration fee.

If the program needs more money hike the registration fee to $50/ two-year sticker and try for a bigger slice of the pie from DOT's transportation fund.

A flat fee increase will cost the state virtually zero money to implement. Let's not waste whatever additional funds that can be mustered on hiring more Madison bureaucrats to administer the program.

 

[jr37]

I don't think the CAP/STEP is a joke, and I do believe there will be administrative costs that may be unexpected.

I think the whole idea is a good idea, but after 8 years of trying with no success, it's time to try something else. The AWSC has waisted enough of our Dues money on lobbying and have nothing to show for it. I think it may just come down to raising registration and out-of state stickers. Something needs to happen soon, the snowmobile program needs the money.

 

[cruiser trailboss]

raise the 50 gals. per sled to 100 gals. problem solved! Cap step is dead. bury it!

 

[skidont]

I wouldnt complain if registration went to say $50 every 2 years . I am from Minnesota but register in booth states

 

[G]

I am an old geezer from NW MN. I have been riding sleds for 40 years. Way back when there were no trail permits. There were no groomed trails. There was no gas tax for sleds. There was only a very cheap registration sticker. We have come a long way since then. I can ride groomed trails from my garage all the way to the Atlantic ocean and back if mother nature provides snow. The vast interconnected trail system does not come cheap and I applaud anyone that goes to bat for increased funding to any governmental agency. But in the end I am with Skylar. If you want to play you have to pay. Snowmobiling is and always has been an expensive sport. So is any form of boating. And if you really want to get carried away go buy an airplane. Increase user fees as in trail permits. I have been sledding in Wisc since the early 90's. I have visited Mich also but mostly I go to Wisc. Trail fees are cheap as far as I am concerned. What the heck is $35 when gas costs as much as it does? Is $35 going to kill me when I just paid over 10 grand for my sled? Food, lodging, beer - it all costs a heck of a lot more than a trail pass. Raise it up to $100 bucks a season. For everybody - both in state and out of state in ALL the states. I will still come. So will many others. It goes back to realizing what an amazing trail system we have. It does not come cheap.

 

[whitedust]

I don't think the CAP/STEP is a joke, and I do believe there will be administrative costs that may be unexpected.

I think the whole idea is a good idea, but after 8 years of trying with no success, it's time to try something else. The AWSC has waisted enough of our Dues money on lobbying and have nothing to show for it. I think it may just come down to raising registration and out-of state stickers. Something needs to happen soon, the snowmobile program needs the money.

Agree if more money needed you have to have each user pay their share & that must come from Madison not that CAP/STEP is bad but it will never fly.

 

[snobuilder]

We need tighter monitoring of the hours spent grooming.... seriously...this past 4 day weekend we rode at least 400 of our 800 miles on trails being regroomed that were nearly as perfect after we passed the groomer as before.

 

[jr37]

We need tighter monitoring of the hours spent grooming.... seriously...this past 4 day weekend we rode at least 400 of our 800 miles on trails being regroomed that were nearly as perfect after we passed the groomer as before.

How in the world would you do that?

 

[snobuilder]

How in the world would you do that?

It would be up to each club/alliance.

Just saying, while some trails need round the clock grooming when certain areas have the only ridable snow, other times meerly grooming on a set schedule doesn't make the best sense when traffic is light because it has been spread out throughout the states/regions and this might be one way to cut costs vs. only looking for more money from the end users through fees or alternate methods.

 

[blu2u2]

Thanks to all for the additional votes in the last week and for jr37 for given this thread some life! The lack of funding that the clubs face is a vital issue that will only get worse with the increase cost of equipment, fuel, insurance, etc...

I never would have thought that "over-grooming" would be an issue. If it is happening I think some common sense needs to be used by the club(s). Thanks snobuilder for adding this factor to the equation.

 

[rocky367]

Agree with snobuilder that over grooming is a big factor, some groups feel that to make money back on the equipment that grooming is the best way and to get into supplemental. I still feel contracting like Minnesota does and setting a fixed amount every year is the way to go, lock the groups into a certain amount and if they go over then they need to find ways to recoup or cover the cost yet if they don't groom or have snow they still have a budget to go with. The clubs need to start treating this like business and not keep hoping on what the DNR gives them. Reason I point to Minnesota as an example is I don't see them having issues funding trails or building bridges. Cap/Step is not well thought out and doesn't solve the major issues that the state faces. Getting more gas tax money would be a good start, however with the enviromentalists challenging us on every issue that would be a major undertaking.

 

[snobuilder]

Thanks to all for the additional votes in the last week and for jr37 for given this thread some life! The lack of funding that the clubs face is a vital issue that will only get worse with the increase cost of equipment, fuel, insurance, etc...

I never would have thought that "over-grooming" would be an issue. If it is happening I think some common sense needs to be used by the club(s). Thanks snobuilder for adding this factor to the equation.

The popular areas might be impossible to "over groom", but the routes less traveled could use some rethinking this might be an unpopular stance, but I only went out on this limb because the costs have gone through the roof since 2009 or so.

 

[cruiser trailboss]

Over grooming you got to be kidding! We send our groomers out on a 4 or 6 hour run and they see 150 to 200 sleds. by the time they get back to the barn. The trail is so bad they could start over. On a weekend like this it is not uncommon for our groomers to see 1000 sleds in one night.

 

[snobuilder]

Arbor Vitae is a busy area especially on weekends...not refering to those areas at all.

 

[whitedust]

I have seen over grooming in farm field areas & it happens every year good or bad conditions so there is truth to this. Rush to put in hours grooming crap conditions & in fact making conditions worse. I have not seen this in the northwoods but a small part of all the trails in WI.

 

[blu2u2]

After riding from Freedom to Minoqua and back over the weekend I did not notice any over grooming. Most trails were in good condition except on the way home we took a short cut via going through Angelica. From Isaar north was the worst. I don't think a groomer had been on them yet this year!

 

[jr37]

AWSC Convention is only a couple weeks away, would be nice to see some more replys or ideas.

 

[rocky367]

I rode in Allamakee county in Iowa over the weekend and they have two groomer units for the whole county. Was discussing grooming with some folks I met and they are contracted not paid by mileage for grooming. From the way I understand it the club gets a certain amount of money allocated to them and that is it, if they need more they have to do fundraising.

 

[xsledder]

I rode in Allamakee county in Iowa over the weekend and they have two groomer units for the whole county. Was discussing grooming with some folks I met and they are contracted not paid by mileage for grooming. From the way I understand it the club gets a certain amount of money allocated to them and that is it, if they need more they have to do fundraising.

And, from what I've seen in Clayton County, just south of Allamakee, they use smaller equipment. (Achieving the same quality of trails as Wisconsin and Michigan)

 

[blu2u2]

March issue of the WSN Mag. is really pushing for everyone to get on board with trying again to get the CAP/STEP passed. Unfortunately the WI DNR does not see it getting passed since the majority of lawmakers in Madison are not in favor... time will tell!