WI Trail Funding Poll

[jr37]

We had the AWSC V.P. at our county meeting tonight. He sure paints an optomistic picture on getting the CAP/STEP passed this time. I just don't see it happening. The governor has said he won't pass any fee increases for anything.

The AWSC wants us to be united. I think if the AWSC were united with the Governors Snowmobile Recreation Council maybe more could be accomplished. The Governors Council is appointed by the governor, I believe. So wouldn't it make sense to unite with people hand picked by the governor? Wouldn't there be a better chance of getting a bill passed if the AWSC worked with them, instead of alone.

I sure think things will get interesting at future AWSC meetings if this fails again. I know I will be speaking my mind if given the chance.

 

[anonomoose]

Just a few simple observations, having dogged along in this thread for quite awhile now.

The daz of expecting folks to join a club at gun point is winding down faster than the polar ice melt; who wants to join something that they know is going to suck TIME and probably money out of pockets that have factually been drained in many other places. Folks need to want to join...not be punished... if they don't show up...no public floggings...extortion notes or threats of violence. Most clubs as members on here admit on this thread are still doin stuff like they did 25 years ago, and folks, that just doesn't work anymore. People should WANT to join because it's better than a trip to disney world, or a float on the stinkboat...ok, maybe not that much fun....but got to get out of the box here and get moving on fresh new ideas. Raffles on each meeting, contributions from companies that need to contribute more who benefit from the sledding world. If folks look forward to a sunday show/meeting/raffle/cook-out maybe just maybe that stoggy old one hour club meeting won't be viewed as a sort of time and money eating club.

I rarely count up the true costs to participate in sledding because in ERA's words, the "war department" ever caught up with it the equal time equal pay paragraph of our marriage license sub paragraph 34 (which of course I skipped over back in the day) would require that I give up the sport entirely or get a 4th time job.

But a way back in the corner of my ear, I have sort of calculated the following:

Snowmobling pulling machine costs about $350-500 per trip which would include taxes, insurance wear and tear but not fuel for 500 mile round trip.
Fuel...well I won't put it to the calculator but I know it is $200 just to get there won't include any driving around while there and not on the sleds while there either...hurts a bunch just to even bring it up.

...but I have to say that another $150 fueling up 4 sleds is not unnnnnusual these days.

8-13k on a fresh ride every few gett'n a pitful return on investment of what you had to sell to make room.

Insurance on sleds, helmets, bluetooth, toccobell....oh, wrong list.....the "get ready to ride this year list" which easily tops about $400 per year, fixing stuff that got broke and tuning up a sled with less than a 1000 miles on it. Trailer and bearings...tires and treads....you get the drift.

If you put all these numbers together 75% of sledheads would give it up. But they don't do they....because they love the sport and are addicted to it even shamefully admitting to sniffing exhaust fumes in the off season to tide them over until they can start burning the real deal in late December.

ARe you actually seriously thinking that if the state...in fact all the states raised the fees to ride the trails $150 a year this would have a major impact on whether you would go or not?

Out of the box again here but if all midwestern states charged the same ONE TRAIL fee to ride in ALL states would that encourage tourism and club unification from the pitful pull they have now to one resounding group all working for the same efforts to KEEP sledding alive or what?



I also hear of wasted spending going on NOW.

Sleddin aint cheap but wasting what you got in place YOU know could be improved on would show your government that you are serious about this and not just trying to tack on costs to johnny lunchbucket. $80k on a snowmobile bridge....did it have 4 way intersection, with it's own personal traffic officer???

One more point....any time you raise fees to enjoy any recreational activity it will have a passive impact on those who are barely involved in the sport. If your neighbor hasn't moved his sled box out of the backyard more than twice this winter...he may pass on using it altogether. It is called the crack point. Old age, lack of money, time limits all point the way to crack limit for a pretty big number of sledders. Hate to see that happen but if something has to be done then sometimes there is no other way to do it.

 

[rocky367]

Very good post Anonomoose! You put into words alot of what I've thought, can tell you have thought long about it also. I wish more people would take notice and start letting the AWSC it won't work the way they intend it. I love the idea of one pass for all the states! I'd pay 200 dollars to just be able to load up my sleds and go around the region.

 

[renegade]

I really don't understand the opossition. It doesn't force anyone to join anything, just an encouragement more than anything. I have heard people say it just puts a band-aid over the problem, so if it does, what is the real problem then? If it doesn't get passed, or just simply a registration raise, the dnr just might take over and control all things snowmobiling, and that would not be good!

 

[whitedust]

If cap/step flies could be ok but I don't think Madison likes the program or would have passed it years ago.

 

[snobuilder]

Doesn't the cap step idea lay more work at the feet of the club secretary in the way of alot more members plus all the additional documentation every year?
Currently handing out a little AWSC member wallet card that has no real world significance is a walk in the park vs. "official documentation" submitted to the STATE wll be a big leap in responsibility for a volunteer position.
Probly in triplicate to boot!.....LOL!!!
Personally I hate more layers of bureaucracy.

 

[xcr440]

who wants to join something that they know is going to suck TIME and probably money out of pockets that have factually been drained in many other places. Folks need to want to join...not be punished... if they don't show up...no public floggings...extortion notes or threats of violence. Most clubs as members on here admit on this thread are still doin stuff like they did 25 years ago, and folks, that just doesn't work anymore. People should WANT to join because it's better than a trip to disney world, or a float on the stinkboat...ok, maybe not that much fun....but got to get out of the box here and get moving on fresh new ideas. Raffles on each meeting, contributions from companies that need to contribute more who benefit from the sledding world. If folks look forward to a sunday show/meeting/raffle/cook-out maybe just maybe that stoggy old one hour club meeting won't be viewed as a sort of time and money eating club.

This is what is hard to admit for most people. Change. I can't remember the last time I went to a club meeting. But every year, somewhere, sometimes more than one area in a year, I go do trail work. This is my contribution, and my time spent with the people in the clubs. To me, this is WAAAAAY more fun than sitting in an f'n meeting after having done just that at my job each of the past 5 days......

 

[snobuilder]

Just a few simple observations, having dogged along in this thread for quite awhile now.

The daz of expecting folks to join a club at gun point is winding down faster than the polar ice melt; who wants to join something that they know is going to suck TIME and probably money out of pockets that have factually been drained in many other places. Folks need to want to join...not be punished... if they don't show up...no public floggings...extortion notes or threats of violence. Most clubs as members on here admit on this thread are still doin stuff like they did 25 years ago, and folks, that just doesn't work anymore. People should WANT to join because it's better than a trip to disney world, or a float on the stinkboat...ok, maybe not that much fun....but got to get out of the box here and get moving on fresh new ideas. Raffles on each meeting, contributions from companies that need to contribute more who benefit from the sledding world. If folks look forward to a sunday show/meeting/raffle/cook-out maybe just maybe that stoggy old one hour club meeting won't be viewed as a sort of time and money eating club.

QUOTE]

so from your perspective, joining a club and doing some good towards the trails that you spend tons of cash to ride on (sled cost, fuel, lodging, food, insurance, permits, reg., etc) is looked at as "being punished"??...LOL.... you sound spoilt to this sledder.

if the next generation agrees with your assessment there won't be any trails in the future to spend gobs of cash to ride on...problem solved, eh poindexter?

 

[whitedust]

My concern is where is the next generation? They can't afford the sport & becoming an old fart sport those with the big bucks.

 

[snobuilder]

This year I saw many groups of 20 somethigs and under havin a total blast on ther pre/post millenial sleds.
you don't need a ton a cash if you really think about it...especially if you live where the snow is.

 

[whitedust]

This year I saw many groups of 20 somethigs and under havin a total blast on ther pre/post millenial sleds.
you don't need a ton a cash if you really think about it...especially if you live where the snow is.

Trouble is when they become 30 somethings married with children then no money for snowmobiling & being torn between family needs ,boy toys & time management. Very tough for 30 somethings to stay in the sport.

 

[anonomoose]

Just a few simple observations, having dogged along in this thread for quite awhile now.

The daz of expecting folks to join a club at gun point is winding down faster than the polar ice melt; who wants to join something that they know is going to suck TIME and probably money out of pockets that have factually been drained in many other places. Folks need to want to join...not be punished...

QUOTE]

so from your perspective, joining a club and doing some good towards the trails that you spend tons of cash to ride on (sled cost, fuel, lodging, food, insurance, permits, reg., etc) is looked at as "being punished"??...LOL.... you sound spoilt to this sledder.

if the next generation agrees with your assessment there won't be any trails in the future to spend gobs of cash to ride on...problem solved, eh poindexter?

Don't get your Mzter badge all tarnished up bud.....there REALLY is a reason folks aren't charging into join up or all this wouldn't be necessary would it?

This is a not so thinly veiled effort to bolster club membership...isn't it....REALLY???

Not everyone can or is willing to lay the time aside to do what it takes to join and participate in a club....seems simple enough to me. If you really want to have folks join enjoy and participate you have to get out of those old suspenders and leisure suite mind sets and get out of the box....and if you do, they will come. Fact is I could see encouragement of NON-sledders joining just for all the fun and enjoyment the WHOLE family could have at these functions...at least that's one of probably a hundred new angles to take on this. How about building on new membership and folks who perhaps have never even gone sledding before....more money for everyone, right?

But if this criticism cuts close to the bone....sorry....just this poindexter, as you call me, telling it like it is.

Before you go windin up on me as an anti club guy, I want to set the record straight and say that I like club activity at some level have always pd dues and fees and put in time when I can and wish that more folks would join because it would IMPROVE the picture but I don't think it is the cure-all that most in cheez land hope it to be. Income streams from many places and though club involvement is great it probably, in the final analysis won't be enough to solve the problems of what ALL states are facing in the face of rising cost of fuels and equipment and leasing and insurance. As long as the number of sledders is dwindling there are going to be strong headwinds solving this one.

 

[renegade]

I guess the way I look at it as not being punished, but encouraged to join. If they don't, they don't, but an incentive can't hurt. I don't see sleds dwindling as much as the hardcore sledder is dwindling. When there is snow, sleds come out of the woodwork and used sleds are impossible to find, so maybe call them opportunistic riders. When there is snow around home they ride. I really beleive that a great majority of these riders have no idea how the trails appear each year. When someone gets into the sport they deal with the dnr for registration, the dnr patrols the trails, so common sense would say the dnr puts in the trails. We have an upshift in help in our club, but we have taken the following approach: join the club, you don't need to attend the meetings, just give us at least 4 hours a year of labor help on the trails. It seems to help and they will ussually show up for a day, not just 4 hours, which really helps us get the trails marked and ready. From these new members, a small percentage will attend the meetings and want to get involved with all the inner workings of the club, and from these people is how I'm hoping our club will grow.

 

[blu2u2]

At the Outagamie Cty Snowmobile Alliance meeting tonight it was voted on to not send in the club membership dues since the AWSC is not willing to try a different route of raising more funds for the clubs! If more clubs/counties do this I would hope that the top brass in the AWSC will open their eyes and see something has to be done. One would think that after the 8th or 9th try at the same thing (CAP/STEP) that is just not working; they should go with a different plan???.....

 

[renten]

I don't how short the funding is but to pay a little more for registration(as long as the increase goes toward DNR trail maintenance and not to public sector pension bail outs), and an increase in local club membership, I would be up for that. When you think about what people are spending on this sport every year, I feel it's not too much to ask to donate the cost of a few beers at the end of the ride.

 

[blu2u2]

I don't how short the funding is but to pay a little more for registration(as long as the increase goes toward DNR trail maintenance and not to public sector pension bail outs), and an increase in local club membership, I would be up for that. When you think about what people are spending on this sport every year, I feel it's not too much to ask to donate the cost of a few beers at the ride.

Around $2 million each of the last couple of years and this doesn't take into account new trails or bridges. In good snow years clubs get only about 50% back from what they spend on maintaining the trails.

 

[renten]

I support my local club in many ways,but would also support increases in club membership and trail pass if it meant supporting the local businesses and nice trails.

 

[jr37]

At the Outagamie Cty Snowmobile Alliance meeting tonight it was voted on to not send in the club membership dues since the AWSC is not willing to try a different route of raising more funds for the clubs! If more clubs/counties do this I would hope that the top brass in the AWSC will open their eyes and see something has to be done. One would think that after the 8th or 9th try at the same thing (CAP/STEP) that is just not working; they should go with a different plan???.....

Did you here that the AWSC is finally trying to work with the Governors Snowmobile Recreation Council? It sounds like they trying to kinda use things from each others proposal and hope that it will be an easier sell to the Legislature. I don't know if it will work, but I am happy that the AWSC is finally working with the SRC, instead of against them. We have until April for the Legislature to accept this or not. If it fails, it will never fly again. We need something, so I hope this new found alliance works.

 

[renegade]

I just hope working with the SRC is not a slippery slope that shifts more power from the people who actually do the work on the trails to the SRC, and that will shift the power to whoever happens to be governor. The SRC is too much government and not enough snowmobile, if you catch my drift. I do not understand the resistance to cap step. I do know the registration needs to be raised, and I beleive the resistance from the legislature is not about the money , but about the power. Snowmobiling in Wisconsin has been mostly supported by snowmobilers, trails are put in by snowmobilers, and NO tax dollars from a non-snowmobiler is used in the making and maintenance of trails, and should be kept that way, and Cap/Step is a way to maintain that. Does anyone know how the members of the SRC are selected? If selected by the governor, and we get a snowmobiler hater in the office, could be a very bad thing if power is taken from the AWSC and shifted to the council.

 

[jr37]

I really am not concerned with the SRC taking control of the snowmobile program. I think that this is a good thing for us right now. It is my understanding that the SRC members are appointed by the governor. With the AWSC working with people that the governor is somewhat familiar with, this should be a plus, instead of the AWSC trying to go it alone. If the AWSC can show a proposal with the SRCs backing, I would hope that would be good when the Governor sees it, or anyone in the Legislature sees it for that matter.

There is no need for the SRC to try to slip their way into control. With a program that is now totally user funded, that surely would go away with government control. Then we would be looking at using tax payer dollars, and that would NOT be a good thing. Just get us some more funding from the people already using the system and we'll be good for a while. Wouldn't it be nice to have all this lobbying for money behind us.