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Wisconsin AB 407 / SB 343 - Snowmobile registration, trail use sticker and funding
- Thread starter snowshoe
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lenny
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when is the the decision being made?
The AWSC Directors will probably vote this Sunday on whether to support this bill or not. I am sure it will get the votes to go. Then it is just up to our Legislators to get it to a vote. I believe this legislative session last until April, so it may take all winter before we know anything.
Time to contact the legislators to let them know your thoughts on the proposed bills!
This bill does nothing to encourage club membership. It gives current club members a break in that their dues would be incorporated into the new largely increased fees but nothing to encourage non-members to join a club. A $5 fine is proposed for those that do not purchase the permit before December 1st. If $5 is the magic number as the carrot or the stick, than there should be at least (should be more) an additional $5 break for those that do in fact join or are in a club over those that are non-members. That would be at least some incentive for non-members to join a club.
Doing a permit every year and registration every two years and separating the two systems is complicated and does not make sense. Just incorporate it into one sticker every two years. Who wants extra stickers?
Because this bill does not do anything at all to encourage new membership to clubs and overcomplicates the system by having separate annual permits and bi-annual registration it should not be supported.
Doing a permit every year and registration every two years and separating the two systems is complicated and does not make sense. Just incorporate it into one sticker every two years. Who wants extra stickers?
Because this bill does not do anything at all to encourage new membership to clubs and overcomplicates the system by having separate annual permits and bi-annual registration it should not be supported.
I agree. Our gov't, DNR and AWSC should just K.I.S.S.(Keep It Simple Stupid)!!!
X2....!
Here is an idea... why don't we try something that hasn't been done in over 10 years??? The two tiered system just causes turmoil, makes for more paperwork, and has additional cost involved.
I went to the a short meeting tonight at the AWSC Workshop. From what I have heard there and in the past few weeks, I think the Directors meeting will be interesting.
I like simple, trust me I do, but I also want to see the money in the system.
blu2u2, thanks for all your help and info in the past. I sure hope we can meet up one of these days and discuss these issues, and more, face to face one.
I like simple, trust me I do, but I also want to see the money in the system.
blu2u2, thanks for all your help and info in the past. I sure hope we can meet up one of these days and discuss these issues, and more, face to face one.
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Sure, there needs to be more $$ into the trail system, but this can be achieved more easily by an increase in the registration fee, with no need of the complicated proposal of who does or doesn't belong to a club and the associated costs to handle the paperwork and sale/distribution of trail permits.
A lot has been said that this proposal will increase club membership, really? How about a survey of snowmobilers and find out if they currently are a club member, and if not, if this legislation passes, will they join a club and play an active part?
I think the results of such a survey would open some eyes.
Refer back to my earlier post #36, their proposed plan, if it goes along with their projections, the system would see a decrease in funds each year going forward. Does that make sense?
jr37, let us know how the directors meeting goes.
xcsp, valid points and questions.
I too would like to see the results of such a survey. I would hope it would open some eyes on the whole trail maintenance/setup/take down expense and time involved. Even if they only got 1 in 10 to join a club, participate or not, it would help with expenses.
I think there is just too much why should I have to pay to play attitude out there. (And this probably isn't just in the snowmobiling world).
Though its not a perfect solution, it is a start, and maybe the directors meetings can help open some eyes and thoughts on this.
I too would like to see the results of such a survey. I would hope it would open some eyes on the whole trail maintenance/setup/take down expense and time involved. Even if they only got 1 in 10 to join a club, participate or not, it would help with expenses.
I think there is just too much why should I have to pay to play attitude out there. (And this probably isn't just in the snowmobiling world).
Though its not a perfect solution, it is a start, and maybe the directors meetings can help open some eyes and thoughts on this.
The AWSC Directors voted, unanimously, to support AB407/SB343. There was no opposition voiced at all.
The bill will be $30 registration for 2 years, trail pass annual cost of $35 for non-members/ $15 for club members, $50 out of state trail pass, free annual trail pass for vintage sleds (30 years old and older), and a $5 fee for trail passes purchased after Dec.1.
Now the debate is over, this is the bill to support, if you really want to see clubs continue to provide good trails. It is important that you let your Legislators know that you support this bill, and that we need the funding. We also need people, and with a little luck we will actually gain members with this bill.
PLEASE, call and support this bill. Even if you have been against it in the past, swallow your pride and help the clubs. Even if you don't agree with the AWSC and/or DNR, please support it for the clubs sake.
The bill will be $30 registration for 2 years, trail pass annual cost of $35 for non-members/ $15 for club members, $50 out of state trail pass, free annual trail pass for vintage sleds (30 years old and older), and a $5 fee for trail passes purchased after Dec.1.
Now the debate is over, this is the bill to support, if you really want to see clubs continue to provide good trails. It is important that you let your Legislators know that you support this bill, and that we need the funding. We also need people, and with a little luck we will actually gain members with this bill.
PLEASE, call and support this bill. Even if you have been against it in the past, swallow your pride and help the clubs. Even if you don't agree with the AWSC and/or DNR, please support it for the clubs sake.
Thanks for the update jr37! I am surprised that all the Directors are in agreement with the AWSC’s recommendations. Did they put some vodka in the “Kool-Aid” over the weekend at the Workshop?
I would like to swallow my pride and not be so outspoken on this issue but it goes against my better judgment. After my first year as Director I starting seeing things that caused me to take off the blinders and look at the big picture.
If this goes through and gets passed into law I will be glad that after eight plus years the AWSC will finally get what they want. However, if it doesn’t then I won’t be surprised if the AWSC does the same thing a year from now.
Finally, if anyone reading this is a club member and they read the most recent WSN Magazine then you know that the Managing Editor recommends to be cautious about trying to get information on the web unless the web page is one of the following; AWSC, American Council of Snowmobile Associations, or Americans for Responsible Recreational Access. I think that every story has two sides unfortunately the ASWC doesn’t want you to think this way.
I would like to swallow my pride and not be so outspoken on this issue but it goes against my better judgment. After my first year as Director I starting seeing things that caused me to take off the blinders and look at the big picture.
If this goes through and gets passed into law I will be glad that after eight plus years the AWSC will finally get what they want. However, if it doesn’t then I won’t be surprised if the AWSC does the same thing a year from now.
Finally, if anyone reading this is a club member and they read the most recent WSN Magazine then you know that the Managing Editor recommends to be cautious about trying to get information on the web unless the web page is one of the following; AWSC, American Council of Snowmobile Associations, or Americans for Responsible Recreational Access. I think that every story has two sides unfortunately the ASWC doesn’t want you to think this way.
This is because they want you to have the right information. The two biggest problems we have in Wisconsin are not enough money and not enough people in clubs. This bill will at least try to fix both of these. Why not give it a try? They are happy with the results in New York. If it can work there, it can work here.
Blu2u2, I also read that article that you talk about. While I don't think that the sites mentioned are the only place for accurate info., I do believe that there is a lot of misinformation to be had on forums. I do my best to post facts, and not just my oppinion. As long as I am a Rep., I will do my best to represent my county and to not be a puppet that will do what ever the AWSC wants. I do believe the AWSC is a good organization, but I will not just go with the flow if it is not what my county wishes.
bearrassler
Well-known member
As an outsider that has not ridden in WS for years I am a little confused. The simple way to get more money is to raise either the registration or the trail permit. With so many variables the administration will be a nightmare. How much is the membership in the AWSC? In both MN and ND we pay $20.00 for a yearly membership, plus the club membership. If the $20 is split between the club and the AWSC, and a club gets an extra 100 members you are only talking about $1000, then take away the price of the club memberships, (newsletters, club parties, etc) and the amount is minimum. Have a raffle or other fund raiser and raise more money. I am not anti club as I am president of a 45 year old club now. I sure hope these ideas don't move to the west.
Wow, no opposition? That’s hard to believe, actually there is LOTS of opposition and concern, and it just didn’t make its appearance when the vote was taken. Trust me, I have attended numerous directors meetings and what has been stated is absolutely true—the opposition is there but it does not show up when the votes are taken. Passing this legislation will still be a hard road to travel. Even legislators that I have talked to have stated this and they are not all being fooled. The “too bad” part is that many others are all saying the same thing that most supporters are now falling back to as their crutch, “let’s get it passed and see what happens because there is nothing better out there”. DUH…Nothing better? What about so many of us, including legislators, that have been pleading for a simple, clean and quick registration increase for everyone? And just what is wrong with what one writer has cautioned: “K.I.S.S!” OK, so let’s let it pass, and then watch out because it is way too complicated and confusing to work anywhere near the way that our current system works, and it will need years of straightening out to ever even become close to what we have now—and check with New York, it does NOT work so nice there, and let’s toss this out too, if NY and a couple of other states out east (which are NOT like Wisconsin) are so perfect and great with their snowmobiling programs, maybe we should adopt their entire programs, then we’ll see how much everyone likes having a permanent snowmobile speed limit everywhere of 35 MPH like in NH. No matter, it is still just plain wrong to make non-club members and lots of landowners pay more than others to ride on snowmobile trails open to the public because they are not club members. The non-club member penalty is still the single most opposition to AWSC’s Cap/Step, and will be AWSC’s nightmare to deal with when somewhere down the road everyone begins to realize that Cap/Step should never have passed. The clubs do need the money, but Cap/Step is not the answer, has absolutely no history in Wisconsin and has numerous red-flagged concerns when it comes to how much money, if any, will be generated to get passed on back to the clubs. If passed it will become a well-oiled doomsday machine that will never stop running until it is repealed or changed. With Cap/Step, the Wisconsin snowmobile program will divide the snowmobilers for certain instead of keeping them united. This statement has already been proven true by the opposition that is already showing up and appearing in letters-to-the-editors and newspaper accounts describing how snowmobilers are feeling about Cap/Step, especially the 85% of snowmobile owners who don’t belong to AWSC, and many of whom don’t even know about this bill.
There is not as much concern over cap/step as you seem to think. I actually have not talked to anyone in person that opposes this, only on here. There was concern voiced in the general session and during the workshop session, but they were discussed and alleviated. It is not complicated as poeple think either. If you are not a club member, you buy the trail pass from a vender or get it in the mail. If you are a club member and in AWSC you get your trail pass through the AWSC, as this will be the only place to get a trail pass for the club member price. Not to complicated to me. The family argument is out the window, too. If a family on a budget would join a club and the AWSC, they would get a discount on all the families sleds. Why wouldn't a family do that? And if one child in that family stays in a club into adulthood, that would be what this bill is going for.
85% of snowmobilers are not in the AWSC. To me that is astounding. Way to high. That means 85% of snowmobilers do not know that there is a lawsuit challenging the right of snowmobiliers to operate on the DOT right of way of roads and ditches. This arose out of St. Germain. Why any snowmobiler would not join an organization that fights for your rights for ten bucks is beyond me. I understand someone may not agree with everything they do, but I'd bet a 35 MPH speed limit would happen faster without the AWSC around!
An out of state trail pass will be $50.
85% of snowmobilers are not in the AWSC. To me that is astounding. Way to high. That means 85% of snowmobilers do not know that there is a lawsuit challenging the right of snowmobiliers to operate on the DOT right of way of roads and ditches. This arose out of St. Germain. Why any snowmobiler would not join an organization that fights for your rights for ten bucks is beyond me. I understand someone may not agree with everything they do, but I'd bet a 35 MPH speed limit would happen faster without the AWSC around!
An out of state trail pass will be $50.