snow_monkey
New member
IMO x'2
Yamaha People
- Thread starter nic
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IMO x'2
I would gas up at 100 miles or upgrade to the larger tank for greater range.
uncle_ed
Active member
From what I understand about the 600 just not being enough power, I would say you would want the Apex. I had one for 2 and a half seasons and really enjoyed the sled and its muscle on the trails. If I had to nit pic some bad points about it I wouild have to say that it appears that Yamaha has addressed them with their new stock this year.
1. Engine braking
2. Poor hook-up out of the dig.
3. Some excessive steering feedback under some conditions.
The first time I really wound up that sled and closed in on triple digits I pulled out of the throttle and about flew over the windshield. Seriously, the guy behind me could probably see the bottom of my boots!
From what I understand they have decreased the amount of engine braking and smoothed out the throttle response.
I had the thing picked with 192 studs and played with the transfer rod and shocks, etc and still would spin out of the hole. From a roll it was awesome. The 128" track should help carry the weight better and reduce the load on the skis for better hook up. I had a polaris with the 128" and did not really notice that it was longer than the 121" when trail riding much at all.
I never really felt excessive feedback at low speeds like going around a downed tree or turning at slow speeds or going really fast either. Under moderate speeds in the twisties it was a bit more work but again not really that bad. I have to believe that with eps that thing is like cutting butter with a hot knife. I would really like to drive one to see how it feels.
I cant tell you about the other sled options you are interested in as I havent driven them but I hope that this does help a bit.
1. Engine braking
2. Poor hook-up out of the dig.
3. Some excessive steering feedback under some conditions.
The first time I really wound up that sled and closed in on triple digits I pulled out of the throttle and about flew over the windshield. Seriously, the guy behind me could probably see the bottom of my boots!
From what I understand they have decreased the amount of engine braking and smoothed out the throttle response.
I had the thing picked with 192 studs and played with the transfer rod and shocks, etc and still would spin out of the hole. From a roll it was awesome. The 128" track should help carry the weight better and reduce the load on the skis for better hook up. I had a polaris with the 128" and did not really notice that it was longer than the 121" when trail riding much at all.
I never really felt excessive feedback at low speeds like going around a downed tree or turning at slow speeds or going really fast either. Under moderate speeds in the twisties it was a bit more work but again not really that bad. I have to believe that with eps that thing is like cutting butter with a hot knife. I would really like to drive one to see how it feels.
I cant tell you about the other sled options you are interested in as I havent driven them but I hope that this does help a bit.
X2 - Lenny's comments
Recommendations really depend on your riding style. I haven't owned any of the sleds you listed, but have spent seat time in them all. You really need to ride them to see. The Nytro and the Apex/Vector are completely different animals.
Lots of good comments already. Here's some additional thoughts:
For my preferred type of riding, tight twisty trails, IMO Yamaha doesn't quite have a competitive product. IMO Doo's got the best product for this segment right now.
For ditch banging and goofing around I can't imagine a more fun sled than the Nytro. Tons of power, suspension to take the jumps or pound the big bumps, etc. However, I wouldn't want to ride 150+ miles on the trail on it. Better be pointed where you want to go before hitting the throttle. Minimal wind protection. Small gas tank. Ergo's not up the the competition. I think of it as a blunt instrument to pound the snow into submission. Lot's of fun but heavy work.
For high speed sit down trail performance on wide sweeping UP trails you'd be hard pressed to beat the Apex. Tons of power and comfortable ride while handling well. However, not very rider forward and can't haul it through the twisties as easily as others. (I haven't ridden one but I'd check out the DOO 4-tek 1200, too.)
Vector is similar to the Apex but less power and handles a little more nimble. Given your feedback I'd guess you would prefer the power of the Apex.
All are good sleds and I'd have a Yami in the garage if I could afford to have multiple sleds for different riding styles. It really depends on what you prefer. Get out there and test ride!
Recommendations really depend on your riding style. I haven't owned any of the sleds you listed, but have spent seat time in them all. You really need to ride them to see. The Nytro and the Apex/Vector are completely different animals.
Lots of good comments already. Here's some additional thoughts:
For my preferred type of riding, tight twisty trails, IMO Yamaha doesn't quite have a competitive product. IMO Doo's got the best product for this segment right now.
For ditch banging and goofing around I can't imagine a more fun sled than the Nytro. Tons of power, suspension to take the jumps or pound the big bumps, etc. However, I wouldn't want to ride 150+ miles on the trail on it. Better be pointed where you want to go before hitting the throttle. Minimal wind protection. Small gas tank. Ergo's not up the the competition. I think of it as a blunt instrument to pound the snow into submission. Lot's of fun but heavy work.
For high speed sit down trail performance on wide sweeping UP trails you'd be hard pressed to beat the Apex. Tons of power and comfortable ride while handling well. However, not very rider forward and can't haul it through the twisties as easily as others. (I haven't ridden one but I'd check out the DOO 4-tek 1200, too.)
Vector is similar to the Apex but less power and handles a little more nimble. Given your feedback I'd guess you would prefer the power of the Apex.
All are good sleds and I'd have a Yami in the garage if I could afford to have multiple sleds for different riding styles. It really depends on what you prefer. Get out there and test ride!
snow_monkey
New member
Lenny you rock! This is exactly why I get twisted when someone wants to shove their brand down everyones throat. Every sled is better suited for a certain riding style and riding styles vary from person to person. For me a 4 stroke makes no sense for the type of riding I do I live in the land of twisty pines. Twisty pines=mxz shorty! Railroad grades=Apex!! Match your sled to your riding style.
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Appreciate all of the great info, keep it coming.
Lenny- you make an excellent point, riding style will determine the purchase, that's why I'm asking how the different sleds fit.
Knowing that the 600 wasn't enough power, it seems like the apex will win over the vector. As noted- this is not for me. I just got a new sled- the 800 dragon. Now it's my husband's turn. This is for him. And as someone noted- I think as long as he can beat me, or keep up- he will be happy. I've been kicking his butt the last 2 yrs. =)
Our riding style- pretty aggressive. We ride the St Germain/WI area at least one trip a year- the twisty trails. But we still average a solid 40mph on those. Also hit the UP 1-2 times a year as well- and I'll admit I can be that jerk some of you talk about that thinks 90mph on a railbed is just fine. 200+ mile days are average. Closer to 300 if we're flying through the UP. Note- we do slow down for oncoming traffic =) But I wouldn't put us in the 'trail cruiser' division. We move pretty fast. My husband's theory when it gets bumpy- the faster you go, the bumps smooth out. I'm telling you he has broken suspension parts that have baffled dealers. I'm still trying to find a manufacturer hook up for him. He would be the perfect snowmobile test driver.
Anyway- I should mention that we are not planning on buying new. Unfortunately, they're just too much money. Wish we could- but I can't afford a new 13K apex. So we will be going used. Or possibly new, but year or two old model. That's how I bought my sled as well- 2K cheaper when it's non-current, even when still brand new.
The nytro is obviously cheaper than the apex- so I guess that's probably the big consideration at this point. Apex or Nytro. Will the nytro be enough throttle to not get bored after a year? It's a smaller, lighter, more agile machine- so is the smaller motor ok? A friend has a nytro, he has ridden it. He likes the rider forward position. He thought it was pretty quick. He knows he's not going to be the fastest guy on the lake. Someone is always quicker- and that's ok. But he was bored with the 600 crossing something like Gogebic.
Shame on whoever said the vector 'is enough' for me- I want the PowerCommander for my dragon. You can never get enough speed!
Lenny- you make an excellent point, riding style will determine the purchase, that's why I'm asking how the different sleds fit.
Knowing that the 600 wasn't enough power, it seems like the apex will win over the vector. As noted- this is not for me. I just got a new sled- the 800 dragon. Now it's my husband's turn. This is for him. And as someone noted- I think as long as he can beat me, or keep up- he will be happy. I've been kicking his butt the last 2 yrs. =)
Our riding style- pretty aggressive. We ride the St Germain/WI area at least one trip a year- the twisty trails. But we still average a solid 40mph on those. Also hit the UP 1-2 times a year as well- and I'll admit I can be that jerk some of you talk about that thinks 90mph on a railbed is just fine. 200+ mile days are average. Closer to 300 if we're flying through the UP. Note- we do slow down for oncoming traffic =) But I wouldn't put us in the 'trail cruiser' division. We move pretty fast. My husband's theory when it gets bumpy- the faster you go, the bumps smooth out. I'm telling you he has broken suspension parts that have baffled dealers. I'm still trying to find a manufacturer hook up for him. He would be the perfect snowmobile test driver.
Anyway- I should mention that we are not planning on buying new. Unfortunately, they're just too much money. Wish we could- but I can't afford a new 13K apex. So we will be going used. Or possibly new, but year or two old model. That's how I bought my sled as well- 2K cheaper when it's non-current, even when still brand new.
The nytro is obviously cheaper than the apex- so I guess that's probably the big consideration at this point. Apex or Nytro. Will the nytro be enough throttle to not get bored after a year? It's a smaller, lighter, more agile machine- so is the smaller motor ok? A friend has a nytro, he has ridden it. He likes the rider forward position. He thought it was pretty quick. He knows he's not going to be the fastest guy on the lake. Someone is always quicker- and that's ok. But he was bored with the 600 crossing something like Gogebic.
Shame on whoever said the vector 'is enough' for me- I want the PowerCommander for my dragon. You can never get enough speed!
Iam starting to get lazy with maintance and just want to turn the key and do old time sit down ride for 300 + miles a day ride plus 2 smokes oils and gas mileage and changing mapping a pain in the azz . YAMAHA is the only way to go .I ran my Rage on the Auto Bahn (flambeau flowage ) this winter for 10 mile cannon ball run,wide open throttle with some 2 smoke 600s,700s 800s ,900,s and at the end a 2004 yamaha warrior was there first there 3 xtcs 1 apex ,2 rages next,then some 2 smokes that didnt blow belts or pistons showed up.tracks that were not studded were faster that studded on top end ! you cant hold a 2 stroke wide open that long or it will grenade! go yamaha and you will never go back !!
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IF he rode the Nytro and liked it then he will like the Nytro XTX. He can clutch it and do some things to get more power if he gets bored. I would tell him to hold out for an 2011 Apex XTX but that just me.
It sounds like both of you are speed freaks. Plus you could always switch with him and you could drive it.
There is a big difference from the old apex to the new apex in the motor. The motor is a lot smoother on acceleration and the engine breaking is not as jerky.
New seat that sits 2" higher. Top speed there really isn't that much difference but getting to that speed the new motor rocks.
Whichever Apex you pick you will need to fix a couple things on it. To fix the darting and ski lift you need to pull limiter strap up 1 hole, level out the front A-arms, set transfer at minimum and put snowtrackers extreme on the skis. Hyfax will wear quick but then should stay at that point for a long time.
Nic: I can say if you bash thru the bumps at high speed then you need Nytro XTX or Apex LTX GT or Apex Attak GT for rough trail & best shock package. Forget the Yam 121s just don't handle that well thru the junk. Yes lots of good buys on Nytros as more sled bumpwise than some thought.........think snowcross & stand up riding. There is a Nytro SE limted build super bump sled & the shock package is simular to MXZX Spring package. There is just no way to ride a Nytro & not stand up ride & begs to be beat on. The standard gas tank is small but you can probably find a used Nytro with a larger tank since so many upgraded for additional range. Apex is more of a sit down sled & you do feel the engine braking of the big 150 which I like but coming off a 2s it is very different when you let off the gas. The Apex & Nytro are for different users & I would not buy either sled without test riding because they are that different.
I've been on Yamahas for 17 years and have had nothing but good things to say about them. The reliability is awesome! Engines are the smoothest out there. Have a '10 NytroXTX now and love it! It's not the fastest sled but it does have a ton of torque and it does get good mpg. Sounds to me that you both might like the Apex, but I would say buy what you feel comfortable on. I know it's not close to you but Highlands Yamaha in Countryside is the biggest and best for Yamaha. Great prices, great sales and service, Super nice people to deal with. Good luck with your decision.
F
fusion
Guest
Nytro would probably be enough power for you. Will keep up to anything, zero to 90. Major torque and low end pull. The problem with this sled is, it's very, very stiff. But if you ride a Dragon, a natural comparison IMO would be a Nytro. I was hot on a Dragon at one point, but was told by a very knowledgable salesmen that unless I was hammering trails with bumps and moguls, the Dragon would be too stiff for me. Same would be true of the Nytro. Plus, this sled, from all accounts, is extremely cold without the highest windshield you can buy. When you put the high windshield on it, it looks very weird. I almost bought one setup this way, and bottom line, I couldn't pull the trigger. Just not the sled for me.
Also, clearly the Nytro will be a much more difficult resale 3, 4 years down the road. Very limited market to sell into - low demand equals difficult sale. JMO
Based on what you've described, an Apex will serve you very well, but get ready to ante up a pretty hefty price. I think they are nuts with their prices on these things, but you can probably do pretty good in the off season on a left over 2011.
Also, clearly the Nytro will be a much more difficult resale 3, 4 years down the road. Very limited market to sell into - low demand equals difficult sale. JMO
Based on what you've described, an Apex will serve you very well, but get ready to ante up a pretty hefty price. I think they are nuts with their prices on these things, but you can probably do pretty good in the off season on a left over 2011.
eagle1
Well-known member
Best advice, test ride them first to feel the difference and see what works for you. Belive there is a Yamaha demo ride in Munising March 12 ,13. Get up there and try some out.
IMO the Nytro is not cold with med shield, I don't dress any differently than I did with a indy wedge chassis.
Also don't count the Vector out. That new fuel injected motor pulls pretty good.
IMO the Nytro is not cold with med shield, I don't dress any differently than I did with a indy wedge chassis.
Also don't count the Vector out. That new fuel injected motor pulls pretty good.
open it up
hey that trail looks sweet, you could crack open the Apex on that one!
Looks like a straight thru the Pines....... Perfect!
Just_Ride
hey that trail looks sweet, you could crack open the Apex on that one!
Looks like a straight thru the Pines....... Perfect!
Just_Ride
why jump ship and go right to yami. have you checked out the fst? very impressive. handels great, good fuel milage, LOADS of smooth power! Just saying, I had to make a decision too being a poo man I accually thought about a yamai. BUT i rode the apex and the fst and , well....... I bought a fst and so far Im am pleasantly pleased. I found the biggest problem for me was the steering and handling of the yami. I rode 2 diff. machines both were set up and both handeled the same. great for a straight line and lazy steering in the corners like riding a goat. A fast goat none the less. but not as fast as the fst. my personal experience.
groomerdriver
New member
Hmmmm...all really good replies but I think I can throw out some things to think about:
* Compare the weight of your Dragon to an Apex. The Apex will feel and drive heavier vs. the Dragon even with EPS.
* I priced out a 2011 121" Apex 2 weeks ago for $10,900 + tax.
* IMO DON'T buy an Apex that doesn't have EPS (2010 or older).
* Lot's of Apex's around...no Vectors to be found in NW Wisco. What does that tell you about resale (but I don't think that's a concern of yours)?
* A Skidoo with the 1200 4S puts out 140 hp. Same area as the Dragon.
* The Skidoo rear skid is better IMO than the Yami Mono2 when driven hard. If you want plush (like I do) go the Yamaha Mono2 route.
* IMO...NONE of the OEM's chassis/skids are even close out of the box. So much adjustabilty in them all now.
*Skidoo w/1200 4S will weigh approx. 140 lbs less than a comparable Apex.
* Hard to find any Doo with a 1200 4S right now.
What do I own now = after owning 14 different Polarii I bought a new Vector in 2005 then added an M10 skid. Almost 10,000 miles on the engine now but enough minor stuff has gone wrong with the sled that it drives me niuts....but the motor itself is AWESOME......600 class power.
Next sled = I've driven an Apex with the EPS and I'm sold on the EPS (with my bad shoulders). If EPS is on the 2012 Vectors, that's my next sled.
Why = EPS, I can count on the engine to go bookoo miles (I can deal with exhaust donuts and wheels) and the Mono2 offers the best plush ride of all the stock skids....again JMO.
Great thread!
* Compare the weight of your Dragon to an Apex. The Apex will feel and drive heavier vs. the Dragon even with EPS.
* I priced out a 2011 121" Apex 2 weeks ago for $10,900 + tax.
* IMO DON'T buy an Apex that doesn't have EPS (2010 or older).
* Lot's of Apex's around...no Vectors to be found in NW Wisco. What does that tell you about resale (but I don't think that's a concern of yours)?
* A Skidoo with the 1200 4S puts out 140 hp. Same area as the Dragon.
* The Skidoo rear skid is better IMO than the Yami Mono2 when driven hard. If you want plush (like I do) go the Yamaha Mono2 route.
* IMO...NONE of the OEM's chassis/skids are even close out of the box. So much adjustabilty in them all now.
*Skidoo w/1200 4S will weigh approx. 140 lbs less than a comparable Apex.
* Hard to find any Doo with a 1200 4S right now.
What do I own now = after owning 14 different Polarii I bought a new Vector in 2005 then added an M10 skid. Almost 10,000 miles on the engine now but enough minor stuff has gone wrong with the sled that it drives me niuts....but the motor itself is AWESOME......600 class power.
Next sled = I've driven an Apex with the EPS and I'm sold on the EPS (with my bad shoulders). If EPS is on the 2012 Vectors, that's my next sled.
Why = EPS, I can count on the engine to go bookoo miles (I can deal with exhaust donuts and wheels) and the Mono2 offers the best plush ride of all the stock skids....again JMO.
Great thread!
I disagree with u jeff. Imo..the fst is the worst of all
The four strokes I rode...very heavy..heavier than my
attak, bakes ur right foot from how the exhaust exits,
gets worse fuel economy than any of the yamis.
I love my attak gt...i bought it used, and it was loaded
with extras...ulmer clutch kit,, curve xs skis, yamaheaters,
and more. It handles, and rides perfect for me...but
its set up the way I like...that is the key with any sled...not
just yamaha. I'll admit it took me awhile to get used
to the extra weight, and engine breaking..but now I love
it. Btw jeff...i have no problem running with my buddy's
08 fst.
The four strokes I rode...very heavy..heavier than my
attak, bakes ur right foot from how the exhaust exits,
gets worse fuel economy than any of the yamis.
I love my attak gt...i bought it used, and it was loaded
with extras...ulmer clutch kit,, curve xs skis, yamaheaters,
and more. It handles, and rides perfect for me...but
its set up the way I like...that is the key with any sled...not
just yamaha. I'll admit it took me awhile to get used
to the extra weight, and engine breaking..but now I love
it. Btw jeff...i have no problem running with my buddy's
08 fst.
trailshredder
Member
Again...Yamaha loyalists!!! Even back in the day with the Pogo stick front end or even the 99 to 02 SRX's that you couldn't even put your hand between the belly pan and the ground (no suspension) they were "the best" handling and "fastest" sleds around. Now I do know they have come a long way since then...unfortunately they were behind by 10 to 15 years back in the early 2000's. There is no arguing with a "Yamaha loyalist". They are lost in their own world when it comes to their sleds. Again don't beat me up on this "I may own one myself one day" not overly impressed just yet on the ride. (JMO)
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yamaha loyalist?? LoL ..i think not..i owned ski doos
from 2002 to 2007, and bought an 07 crossfire which
I rode for two seasons ( bought in fall of 08)
Yamaha suspensions are the easiest to adjust..and
work just fine for me...in fact my attak gt may not be
a big bump agressive ditch sled, but it is a comfy, plush
sitdown sled that works well for me.
I thought this post was a question about yamaha
four strokes?? Why are all the yamahaters high jacking??
from 2002 to 2007, and bought an 07 crossfire which
I rode for two seasons ( bought in fall of 08)
Yamaha suspensions are the easiest to adjust..and
work just fine for me...in fact my attak gt may not be
a big bump agressive ditch sled, but it is a comfy, plush
sitdown sled that works well for me.
I thought this post was a question about yamaha
four strokes?? Why are all the yamahaters high jacking??
trailshredder
Member
No Yamaha hater here....and no hyjacking...read the WHOLE POST and you will see that I too am on the fence. I am also considering a Yamaha!!! Apperantly you read "between" the lines. Open up between the ears and things will be much clearer.