You guys have only been discussing this from the AC side. Don't you suppose one of the benefits to AC is they sell a shipload of chassis that they wouldn't otherwise sell as the 2nd portion of the agreement? Unless they've figured out a way to supplant that income stream strikes me that they'd be kind of foolish, business wise, to simply abandon it.
Yamaha's contract with Cat up this year (2019)
- Thread starter shelby369
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G
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Sled sales are just a fraction of 4 wheeler and side by side sales. And falling. Polaris is selling a boatload of their RZRs and Rangers. Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda and Kaw and CanAm and Textron with their ugly Stampede and AC with their 4 wheelers -which have never been as good as most of the competitors - are all in the 4 wheeler biz. The money is in off road 4 wheelers and side by sides. It is not in snowmobiles. Honda never got into the snowmobile biz for a reason. If I were Textron and wanted to make money I would put my best and brightest to work figuring out how to carve out a bigger chunk of the 4 wheeler and side by side market. They are already pushing their golf carts through the existing dealerships. You can buy one at Country Cat if you want. Textron did not buy AC to make sure there will always be competition and innovation in the snowmobile industry. They bought it with a plan to make money. There is simply not the money to be made in sleds that there is in summertime vehicles. Think of it this way - 4 wheeler season is 12 months. Snowmobile season is 3 months. Maybe. Where would YOU invest?
As in without the AC chassis, Yami was done? Toast.
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I don't think they even needed webber that ha e the st cloud motor plant . I am pretty sure the yammi 4st was being put together there already .
yammi will be tossing in the hat as soon as there current inventory is off the shelf snow check for this yr and done imho
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cat has been desining there motors as far back as when they started working with zuk.they are fully capable of desining and building in house .
they did not even need the yammi motor it was just ez. yammi needed cat as a transition out
POLARISDAN
New member
i dont know nothing about it but it sure seems like AC bailed out and firesaled the business..knowing they were DONE
Just because Weber is Textron owned doesn’t at all mean they can equal or come anywhere near the quality or cost of Yamaha snowmobile specific 4s engines. Plus the Textron R&D cost to develop 2-4 Weber snowmobile engines would astronomical compared to buying from a well respected OEM engine supplier not to mention the negative market view of the Weber engine failure with Polaris. Textron is smarter than that and would never approve a Weber budget to do so. The business and marking folks would never ever go in that direction.
I'm sure Textron didn't spend the $$$ to acquire Weber Motors with out need, and good reason. There is no more Weber Motors, as it is Textron Motors after the acquisition. Textron now has combined, and expanded all Textron Motors, and AC, engine development, engineering, design, and production. Without reasons? I doubt that. It is called in house control, quality, fit, and cost. They bought a engine manufacturer so they can easily justify R&D&E cost by doing so for their own complete product. Such as being one modular design. That's how to achieve the best vehicle weight, balance, and handling. The negative Weber market view? You can run down Weber Motors, but their reputation of very high quality products speaks for itself, as in being very well respected. You can't blame Weber for Poo's poor, not thought thru, misfitting, bad idea decisions. The components Poo used in those Weber applications is were the problems arose from. Poo admitted it was a poorly planned project from the very start. I'm betting that if, and when Poo brings a 4-stroke snowmobile to the market again, it will be with Poo's own engine/power. Time will tell us on both.
Whatever Textron wants with Weber it’s not snow machines. Absolutely no ROI to develop a group of 4s engines for snow products makes absolutely no business sense to move away from Yamaha as an OEM engine supplier. I’m not even convinced Textron wants to stay in snowmobiles for the long term. Developing Weber 4s engines for dirt products makes sense and levers AC dirt products as well but snow products no way.
gogebic_sledder
Member
Rumor is 880 Yamaha 2s is ready. It will be in the cat and Yamaha . Will see. I hope so
Are you saying BRP/Rotax can do it, but Textron can't, or won't? Whow? Textron's pockets are much fuller, and a lot deeper than BRP's are by far. BRP/Rotax ACE series engines are being used in snowmobiles, UTV's, watercraft, and now in the 3 wheeled on road Ryker vehicles. Very, very cost effective R&D&E. All being part of a modular design.
Not sure what you mean. Textron total assets 14 billion. Bombardier total assets 25 billion.
I’ll bet you $100 there is no Weber snowmobile engine going to be offered in 2020 for any AC snow machine. Not going to happen I’m 100% sure as asked by the OP. I was in the OEM biz for 35 years and the realionship that Textron has with Yamaha will not end because the recent acquisition of Weber. Abe you are way out in the vapor on these thoughts and comparison to BRP plus Textron didn’t buy AC for snow products we all know that! Textron will NOT throw money at snow products just invest enough to make snow products viable. Textron would love to unload snow products to Yamaha but Yamaha is not interested. So in conclusion snowmobiles are at the bottom of any engine development budgets. I can’t blame them snow is a terrible investment for many reasons.
Exactly about spit up my coffee when I read that.
its like a locker room of 7th grad girls with the babble, hearsay and speculation on this board from a select few.
its like a locker room of 7th grad girls with the babble, hearsay and speculation on this board from a select few.
Bear, I couldn't agree more. Yamaha should've addressed the fuel pump solid state relay years ago. It's only cost them money. Sometimes you wonder what the **** these companies are thinking. Thankfully it's an easy fix but still isn't right. Yes Timo, way too much speculation. I don't know details but I can tell you Yamaha snowmobiles aren't going anywhere. They're not getting out of the business
I've said it a million times but people continue to not believe it. It is what it is. We need all four sled companies and they aren't going anywhere. Amen for that!
I've said it a million times but people continue to not believe it. It is what it is. We need all four sled companies and they aren't going anywhere. Amen for that!
SledTL
Active member
I think this is one of the brightest moves that any manufacturer has done in awhile. Cuts out a huge portion of engineering because powertrain is proven and just build whatever chassis around it. Ford is doing the same thing with the 2.3 ecoboost and 10 speed transmission. Economies of scale allow them to offer a ryker, spark, mxz under 10k. I've considered buying one of those rykers in a few years when there is some used ones around. My summertime sled.
So Kip, what is the easy fix, just warming it up and reinstalling it or do you guys have a better relay at your shop? By the Kip, bought a new 2019 SW LTX DX from you. Got 200 miles on it so far, what a beast going from a Vector. Going to the UP next week with it. Will stop by and say hello