X2!!! This is what the Outagamie Cty Alliance proposed at the AWSC Convention back in March of 2012. The AWSC didn't act on this since they would not get more $$$. I got out of the Dir. & Rep. position because I was tired of the AWSC having "tunnel vision" with the CAP/STEP Program.
Wisconsin AB 407 / SB 343 - Snowmobile registration, trail use sticker and funding
- Thread starter snowshoe
- Start date
X2!!! This is what the Outagamie Cty Alliance proposed at the AWSC Convention back in March of 2012. The AWSC didn't act on this since they would not get more $$$. I got out of the Dir. & Rep. position because I was tired of the AWSC having "tunnel vision" with the CAP/STEP Program.
The clubs down here that I have looked at ADD a $15 to $20 non-active fee (they state that on their websites for membership fees, unless they will change that). So on top of the $50, it would be up to $70 to be a "non-active" club member. So now that are making $40 off me when I really don't get any benefit .
So if someone knows of clubs around Milwaukee that don't add this ridiculous fee of being a "non-active" member, let me know. I will gladly join to have the $20 go to the club.
Awesome! jr37, what did we learn at the Milw. Snow Show?
According to the AWSC web site it looks like the out of state snowmobiles will now pay $50 for a trail pass with a $5 discount if you buy your pass before 12/1, a net increase of $10 to $15 per sled. Wisconsin registered snow mobiles will go from $30 for 2 years to $30 for 3 years a net decrease of $5 per year. A new trail pass requirement for Wisconsin registered snowmobiles at $10 for members of a AWSC affiliated club and $30 per year for non-members. I believe most club memberships costing around $25 to $30 per year.
It looks to me that the registration / trail pass cost per sled per year is going to be:
Resident (not a member of a club) currently $15 next year $40
Resident (club member) currently $15 next year $20
Non-registered out of state currently $35 next year $45/$50
This increase seems modest and affordable to me IMO, but does require a trail pass for all snowmobiles similar to Michigan but with different prices.
It looks to me that the registration / trail pass cost per sled per year is going to be:
Resident (not a member of a club) currently $15 next year $40
Resident (club member) currently $15 next year $20
Non-registered out of state currently $35 next year $45/$50
This increase seems modest and affordable to me IMO, but does require a trail pass for all snowmobiles similar to Michigan but with different prices.
That is not correct info. above. AB 407 is more recent that the info on the AWSC website. Go to the top of this thread for the up to date info.
Thanks jr37, I was just looking on the AWSC site, I guess the best thing to do is wait till the bill becomes law the we'll know. I'm also assuming that most people that belong to clubs will remain to do so. Both of my clubs cost me $25 per year plus any additional donation I make. Reading through the AB407, for a Wisconsin club member the cost goes from $15 this year to $30 next year but for the Wisconsin non-club member it will go to $50. This does seem like a logistical nightmare as you will now need 3 trail pass stickers or at least a way of determining who should pay what.
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Our club dues are $20. $10 goes to the AWSC, $10 stays with the club. Come to a club event and you are money ahead.
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I didn't go the the Milw. Snow Show, but hope to get a better grasp of things at the AWSC Workshop in a couple weeks.
snowfreak56
Member
That is what they want you to think.
tritonmark
New member
registration
I understand to a point for the increase, but to bad there wasn't a way to sell a weekend pass to make it more affordable for a family with more then 2 sleds. Or even a reduced rate for a family on a yearly pass when purchasing more then 2 passes ! To take a family on a weekend getaway " snow permitting" can be very expensive , stickers, fuel, lodging, and meals. Not trying to complain but need to look at the future which is the younger riders that rely on their parents to be able to afford to take them out for a ride. With that said my kids are now young adults so trying to look out for others trying to enjoy the sport we all love !
I understand to a point for the increase, but to bad there wasn't a way to sell a weekend pass to make it more affordable for a family with more then 2 sleds. Or even a reduced rate for a family on a yearly pass when purchasing more then 2 passes ! To take a family on a weekend getaway " snow permitting" can be very expensive , stickers, fuel, lodging, and meals. Not trying to complain but need to look at the future which is the younger riders that rely on their parents to be able to afford to take them out for a ride. With that said my kids are now young adults so trying to look out for others trying to enjoy the sport we all love !
srt20
Active member
I belong to 3 clubs 180 miles away from home. Only meeting I've ever been to has been party at the clubhouse with free food. All are only $20 a year. They all do a good job at grooming so I do my little part to give them $20.
In fact, I have never heard of a non-active fee.
Please be aware that if someone decides to go to the AWSC workshop to learn about Cap/Step, they will be hand fed what AWSC wants everyone to believe—Cap/Step is the best thing that would happen since God. Never mind that Cap/Step is precisely what has been holding back a reasonable simple and quick registration increase to get more money into the program…AWSC wants YOUR $10, none of which ever goes back to the clubs for grooming and other trail expenses—Cap/Step is a membership drive bill, pure and simple (well it sure won’t be simple to administer if it passes, and the added cost for WDNR to administer Cap/Step is going to be lots of money, and that will come right out of the snowmobile program). Note that I mentioned that Cap/Step is what has been holding back the program funding, I wonder how many clubs know this. And no matter how long the debate goes on, and the analysis of how much it will cost to ride on trails open to the public, Cap/Step is a bill that penalizes non-club members $20 per year per snowmobile who dares not to join AWSC. It is this concept that has prevented it from being passed in two previous trips to the Capitol by AWSC, and the legislators are still not likely to buy it. There are now those who at first did not support Cap/Step but have since switched because they believe the funding shortage has been around long enough and it needs to get done no matter what…this is a terrible remedy that will haunt the Wisconsin snowmobile program forever, at least until it gets changed, or appealed and ruled invalid by our courts because of the two-tier fees, then where will we be. Simplest solution is a basic registration increase for everyone and it needs to happen ASAP. The clubs deserve this, and then the numerous snowmobilers who have dropped out of the clubs can rejoin, the snowmobilers will be united together, and we can move on with lots of new funding dollars. Club membership is good, but it must never be forced, remember snowmobilers are near the top of the list for volunteers who really do something.
zozo2 this does seem to explain a lot as I live 350 miles from where I typically ride. One would think a simple increase in the pass cost would be an easy thing even if they add the requirement of all snowmobiles regardless of registration location. But hey, who can understand politics... I feel that most people accept a small increase in the say $5 range every few years , but when you go $15 or more it just pisses people off.
snobuilder
Well-known member
after reading the initial post yur words here are my exact thoughts....thanks united ...i don't type all that well!
so now i need to jump through extra hoops and add MORE stickers to my sled and make sure all my sleds have YEARLY permits....aquiring the MI permits is bad enough especially with this being such an IFFY sport!
alot of the lesser used trails get over groomed the way it is beacause it is the way you currently collect trail funds....PER MILE...change that method and you might find there is plenty of money for the HEAVY used trails.
This is just another money grab...K.I.S.S....someone please explain that concept to the politicians.
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snobuilder
Well-known member
I hate to open this can a worms, but if you want to hurl, look into all the money sent to SE WI clubs for putting trails in, opening them for an avg of 4 days per year and then taking them out...clubs will force groom before it melts to insure they will max out on funding.
Same goes for SOME northern counties that are regrooming trails mid week that have seen very little use.
I love sledding and belong to a low snow area club...i also do the work but I can't help but think there has to be a more appropiate way to distribute funding and more administration costs sure as heck isn't the way to do it.
Same goes for SOME northern counties that are regrooming trails mid week that have seen very little use.
I love sledding and belong to a low snow area club...i also do the work but I can't help but think there has to be a more appropiate way to distribute funding and more administration costs sure as heck isn't the way to do it.
The Milwaukee Snow Show (Snowmobile USA) is now over and was well attended. Meanwhile, three more red flags popped up over the weekend that concern Cap/Step: 1) Seems that maybe Cap/Step now contains a provision that would provide a second penalty to snowmobilers, in addition to the original $20 Cap/Step penalty for non-club members. This second penalty, called a $5 supplemental fee in AB407 Amendment 1 (dated 10-17-2013), would be imposed on ALL snowmobilers who choose to purchase their annual trail pass after December 1 of the current season. Just keeps getting more and more complicated, doesn’t it. 2) Planning to attend AWSC’s fall workshop coming up to learn more about Cap/Step might be a problem if you are not an AWSC member, as it would appear that only persons who are members of AWSC can attend this private event. So scrap that idea. And 3) If you were hoping to pick up Cap/Step literature at the AWSC booth at the Milwaukee Snow Show, guess what. There was none—no handout for anyone to take home and study. This is a huge red flag, because the official snow show attendance was 12,332, up 4% from last year, and that provided for a great opportunity to reach out to other snowmobilers, especially the ones who do not have AWSC membership. Most of those who went to the snow show were probably not club members, some 10,000 snowmobilers, and AWSC does not want snowmobilers who are going to get slapped with their $20 surcharge (penalty) if Cap/Step passes, to know what is on their radar screen, and has been their extremely narrow focus ever since the two-tier discussions began back in the late 90’s. Almost seems strange that, unlike the DNR booth, AWSC is more focused on Cap/Step than on something equally or more important, such as OWI snowmobile operation. Yes, club membership is still the best way, and is highly encouraged by this writer. But it must NEVER be forced through two-tier, and the two-fee part of Cap/Step is what needs to be replaced by one-fee-for-all if we ever expect to re-unite the snowmobilers and get something through the Capitol. And remember, we can do the registration increase and/or trail pass WITHOUT the need for more stickers if we follow with what the Snowmobile Recreation Council voted to support back in December, 2012. Please contact your legislators!
Thanks for the above posting zozo2.
This type of information needs to be shared to let others know what is taking place.
Hopefully everyone that is or will be affected by such a bill as CAP/Step will contact their legislators to let them know what they think of it and offere suggestions as well.
Most of those legislators probably don't even ride a snowmobile?
This type of information needs to be shared to let others know what is taking place.
Hopefully everyone that is or will be affected by such a bill as CAP/Step will contact their legislators to let them know what they think of it and offere suggestions as well.
Most of those legislators probably don't even ride a snowmobile?
The DNR has a fairly narrow focus when it comes to snowmobiling. They distribute monies and enforce the laws. Of course every booth they have will be focused on safety. Zozo2, why are so firmly against the AWSC? Why do you care if a portion of my registration goes to my club and to the AWSC? Right now there is a two tier system. We all pay registration. Then the slect few, who put in the trails that can be ridden by anybody with that registration we all purchase, and those select few actually pay to do it! Talk about a two tier system! I prefer cap/step where I get a choice where my registration money goes. You do not. You want straight across registration increase and if you want to join a club, it will be an extra $20. I assume your club will not join, so you will get it your way, too! I understand and like the fact you are optomistic that snowmobilers will be united again, but I don't beleive that is possible. Too many riders do not understand how and who puts in a trail. I'm guessing younger riders think a snowmobile club is similar to a motorcycle club, just get together to ride on weekends. I hope cap step will help change this, it sure won't with a straight across registration increase.
As far as grooming is concered, one of the best ways to maintain a well used trail is to groom mid week when it appears it doesnt need grooming. It will last longer, and if you don't groom midweek and wait til it is full of moguls, most likely it will need to be groomed twice anyway.
As far as grooming is concered, one of the best ways to maintain a well used trail is to groom mid week when it appears it doesnt need grooming. It will last longer, and if you don't groom midweek and wait til it is full of moguls, most likely it will need to be groomed twice anyway.
groomerdriver
New member
Personally I don't care what we do to raise additional money....like I suggested...raise the yearly permit fee to $200. What non-club member riders MUST understand is that without people like me who VOLUNTEER to put in/take out trails and also groom them, there will be no trails (lets skip the landowner thing for now).
The VOLUNTEER force that currently works on the trails is AGING (like me) and the number of folks wanting to do the work is diminishing quickly. I like many others are SICK and FRICKIN' TIRED of the general "disrespect" showed towards the trails. Pretty soon what will we have? Nobody to put in trails.....forget about grooming them....they need to be there first. Won't need landowners either.
OK so what do we do? We can:
1. Do nothing and see what happens
2. Implement CAP/STEP and make improvements/changes along the way
3. Go to a $200-250 (or more?) yearly fee and PAY workers to maintain the trails.
I'd prefer #2 in any form but fear the riders who feel that they are entitled to have trails will want #1 only to see #3 happen in the near future.
You guys can debate the minutiae of CAP/STEP here till the cows come home. I am not for it nor against it. Until somebody comes up with a better plan and presents it to the WI Government/DNR/AWSC we have to do something, and CAP/STEP is better than nothing. IMO.
I am not happy about this....I live in this district, and have a few choice words for Mary...right now the last thing we need is more fees!!!! And don't give me this "it goes to the clubs BS"...our registration money was supposed to go to trail grooming by the clubs....instead the state got their grubby hands on it....and it sure as worth hasn't gone to the clubs, like it should have....Let me get this straight.. you want to charge more money to get more money for the clubs??? Fool me once...........
This is why more and more people are leaving snowmobiling...it's becoming a rich man's sport....why don't they charge the bicycle people registration fees for using our snowmobile trails???
This is why more and more people are leaving snowmobiling...it's becoming a rich man's sport....why don't they charge the bicycle people registration fees for using our snowmobile trails???