2021 Yamahas

[Attak man]

Snobuilder...I quit letting yamaha disappoint me 3 years ago...they dont build what i want...I could give two shizzles about a yamaha badged cat built 2 stroke....the whole reason to buy yamahas is their engines...and the Apex was the best...period...and yes the power steering worked awesome...I loved it...I wish ski doo would put their dps on the grand touring, and 4 stroke enduro models.
But let's get real honest here...the Apex chassis, and suspension are nowhere near as good as a ski doo, Polaris or cat...Sidewinders are faster, and ride far better than ANY apex...they were a buckboard wagon with lousy skis...yeah..great engine, and the Eps was a really good idea on a heavier sled....I loved my 2011 xtx...until I rode the xs, and gen 4 ski doo 900s (and 1200 in both xs and xr chassis)....neither had the top end of the apex...but both out ride the apex so bad its silly..its no comparison ...and the 900 turbo, is perfect for those guys looking to replace their apex...many of us want to stay in that 150 to 160 hp range, and dont need 205 hp...the 900 turbo is the "better apex"...we sold alot of those to yamaha guys, and I can tell you the mass exodus will continue with this line up.
Apex guys (like me) ...fell in love with the 4 stroke power.
And right now ski doo is the only option.....yamaha could easily go toe to toe with ski doo if they wanted to, and build an n/a 998, and a low boost 998 (160 hp range) ....add eps, and better gauges in a new chassis, with competent suspensions, and they'd get alot of their old customers back. ...right now...if you like lighter weight 4 strokes, that ride and handle excellent...its ski doo...period.

 

[snoden]

@snoden700viper

Do you have issues with the electronically adjustable suspension? I am a little nervous about the wiring under there when ice chunks form. I would like the QS3s as well.
Is it an option to upgrade a L-TX SE to those shocks? I really prefer the colors of the 2021 SE over the LE...

My winder is an 18 and does not have the IQS shock package. Kinda wish I had it though as I like the idea of switching compression on the fly. Following the TY crowd it seems to be pretty reliable for 2 years now after its release. I've seen a few that had a module issue but it doesn't keep you from riding. It sets the package into the medium setting until the module is replaced. I get the color scheme your after and if that fits you that's what you should do. You can upgrade shocks anytime just not from Yamaha during spring power surge.

 

[G]

My winder is an 18 and does not have the IQS shock package. Kinda wish I had it though as I like the idea of switching compression on the fly. Following the TY crowd it seems to be pretty reliable for 2 years now after its release. I've seen a few that had a module issue but it doesn't keep you from riding. It sets the package into the medium setting until the module is replaced. I get the color scheme your after and if that fits you that's what you should do. You can upgrade shocks anytime just not from Yamaha during spring power surge.

You are wrong. When the module fails it does not go to the middle setting. It stays where it was set last.

 

[kip]

I can't engage who is better. and I won't. They all have positives and negatives. What's better is in the eyes of the beholder and what's most important to he or she. I'm not thrilled that Yamaha has a joint venture with Cat being a true blu Yamaha guy. I always enjoyed all 4 manny's having their own product. It's not fun but right now it is what it is. We have sold a ton of Vipers and Sidewinders so I can't say it's been a failure. Do I think we're a lot long in the tooth, yes! Yamaha and Cat are two different companies and operate totally different. Right now it's working for Yamaha so they're sticking with it, and no I don't like it anymore than the die hard Yammy guys and gals. I don't believe it will stay this way forever no matter what the negative nelly's think, but I do think plenty of positive will come from this for both companies in the end. Nothing lasts forever. Just sit back and enjoy that there are still 4 brands involved. To say one is better than the other is just foolish in my opinion. I have plenty of Yamaha action for snowcheck in a short period of time since the 2021 release. All 4 have something to offer snowmobilers. Then we talk price. Yes, prices are high but let's take a look. The big MSRP prices are never what anyone pays. If prices get high is because it's either a snowcheck only model or someone builds a new one with a bunch of extras! Sidewinders sold as cheap as they ever have this year! So go buy a sled and then a year or two later look at the extras you've added to it and then add it up. Bet we would all be pretty astonished! LOL! Build your own snowcheck will never be cheap if you build it just the way you want it right out of the gate. Polaris was very smart to take this approach and don't think for a minute they're not doing this to feel out the market. They've done it with side by side way before sleds. Polaris is still continuing to do it with the Razor and so is Can Am. They're going to keep coming up with streamline pimped out models just to see what the consumer is willing to pay! It's similar to a mountain lion sighting in the U.P. Yes, we see them on game cameras right? The DNR denies it. HMMM.... We all call them dumb.... Really, are they? Wonder what happens to hunting if certain people find out they exist in the U.P.? My point is everything isn't always what it seems. Many times there is a motive behind what they're doing and we don't give the powers to be credit for it. Other times, the powers that be are wrong!! LOL!

 

[snoden]

You are wrong. When the module fails it does not go to the middle setting. It stays where it was set last.

Well crap Grub I guess the guys that have one and had a module fail are lying then. Either way it doesn't keep one from riding. As I stated mine does not have the IQS shock package and also stated that following the TY crowd in regards to those that do have the IQS shock package.

 

[dfattack]

I personally want to see all four Manufacturers successful and even more if another company wanted to jump into the ring. The more the merrier. More competition benefits all of us. Can you image if we all had to ride the same sled? I don't think anyone would want that.

Snobuilder, I'm not sure if you are referring to me with the comment "kick a manny when it looks to be down already". If so, I'm not kicking any manufacturer. As I stated above, I would like all manufacturers to be successful...benefiting all of us. What I will say is that I'm disappointed to not have a Yamaha sled to pick from. Sorry, the Yamicat is NOT a Yamaha through and through. The only sled out of 16 sleds I have bought since 2002 that ever had any mechanical issues was the Yamicat with the chain case. the only sled that ever broke down on the trail was the Yamicat (2015 Viper). I'm very disappointed I don't have an apex XTX replacement option within the Yamaha lineup. But, I'm moving on because thankfully I have other options. My son is spring ordering a Renegade XRS 850 etec this year and I will probably spring order an 900T the next year.

 

[G]

Well crap Grub I guess the guys that have one and had a module fail are lying then. Either way it doesn't keep one from riding. As I stated mine does not have the IQS shock package and also stated that following the TY crowd in regards to those that do have the IQS shock package.

They are not lying. They are just too dumb to know the difference. Of course you can still ride it. It isn't going to explode. It will just flash the annoying code the whole time you are riding.

 

[G]

When it fails it does not have power. If it has no power it is not going to have the power to return it to the medium setting or anywhere else. It stays where it was last set. It is a horrible system in that it fails regularly and the parts to fix it are backordered until May. A person is much better off with QSR3rs. Then you get rebound damping too.

 

[harvest1121]

When it fails it does not have power. If it has no power it is not going to have the power to return it to the medium setting or anywhere else. It stays where it was last set. It is a horrible system in that it fails regularly and the parts to fix it are backordered until May. A person is much better off with QSR3rs. Then you get rebound damping too.

I ride with a guy that it has iced up and broke 2 times. He rode this year without it because it broke early in the season. Not a durable high mile set up

 

[xsledder]

I ride with a guy that it has iced up and broke 2 times. He rode this year without it because it broke early in the season. Not a durable high mile set up

Interesting, what went? How many miles? I didn't have any problems with mine this year. I also did not put a heck of a lot of miles on either this year. About 650 miles.

 

[harvest1121]

Interesting, what went? How many miles? I didn't have any problems with mine this year. I also did not put a heck of a lot of miles on either this year. About 650 miles.

He has about 9000 on it was broke within 2000 miles this year. IT was warrantied before the season could see it collecting ice on it.

 

[xsledder]

He has about 9000 on it was broke within 2000 miles this year. IT was warrantied before the season could see it collecting ice on it.

Where did it build up and break? Just curious, something to watch for.

 

[whitedust]

I personally want to see all four Manufacturers successful and even more if another company wanted to jump into the ring. The more the merrier. More competition benefits all of us. Can you image if we all had to ride the same sled? I don't think anyone would want that.

Snobuilder, I'm not sure if you are referring to me with the comment "kick a manny when it looks to be down already". If so, I'm not kicking any manufacturer. As I stated above, I would like all manufacturers to be successful...benefiting all of us. What I will say is that I'm disappointed to not have a Yamaha sled to pick from. Sorry, the Yamicat is NOT a Yamaha through and through. The only sled out of 16 sleds I have bought since 2002 that ever had any mechanical issues was the Yamicat with the chain case. the only sled that ever broke down on the trail was the Yamicat (2015 Viper). I'm very disappointed I don't have an apex XTX replacement option within the Yamaha lineup. But, I'm moving on because thankfully I have other options. My son is spring ordering a Renegade XRS 850 etec this year and I will probably spring order an 900T the next year.

Dfattack and I ride together with other Yamaha brand faithful and we all realized at some point we would want and need to move on to another brand since the Viper was not enough ponies and the SW was way too much hp for high mile trail riders. Mr tree made my decision for me mid 2019. Do I repair a high milage 2012 Apex xtx or do I move on to another 4s. I chose to move on to the doo 900t Enduro. Dfattack and others rode my Enduro and liked it a whole lot better than they thought they would. The current OEM relationship between Yamaha and Textron never blossomed and produced a leading edge snowmobile platform from the ground up engines and chassis and is stuck on dual branded exact duplicate sleds. Blue or green is the choice and the Yamaha msrp is much higher. I’m embarrassed since I was a Yamaha faithful customer who always thought this is the year Yamaha will show their expertise and surprise everyone with a new 4s/2s sled. Like old Abe I don’t believe it is ever going to happen. We have 3 OEMs and and a 4s engines supplier for a old in the tooth Textron chassis. It is what it is in an overall shrinking marketplace. It’s sad but it is what it is. Other than dealer preference why buy a Yamaha when you can purchase a pure AC 2s sled from AC? SW or Thunder Cat why not the TC? As said before nothing lasts forever so the purebred seems to me to be the safer purchase. I sincerely hope Yamaha will get back in the snowmobile manufacturing with their own pure Yamaha product BUT to be honest I think it’s over. That’s my 2 cents and my opinion and it’s sad to post it but I’m not a sugar coater it is what it is.

 

[ezra]

. I can remember when they were the leader in sleds.

way back when your screen name was just abe

 

[just_ride]

still no track options for a spring order....like a 1.25 ice ripper or 1.5 ice ripper...or did I miss that

 

[Attak man]

Don't get me wrong...I always like the mutual agreement...Cat makes a fine chassis, and suspension. ...the sidewinder engine is awesome, and the 1050 has been a stellar motor (minus the starting issues with Cat's calibration).
But simply rebadging an M series cat, painting it blue, and calling it a "Mountain Max" is almost a sin to me...I bought a 2001 700 Mountain max from Pat's (if you look waaaaaay back when, on John's Journals from 2001-2002, you can see that very sled busting powder in the keweenaw with John)...it was an amazing sled that never let me down...I put over 5,000 miles on her that winter (the most I have ever done on ANY sled)...so that sled is near and dear to my heart, and I find it almost sac religious to rebadge a cat, and use that name. I think the Venom/blast will be good little sleds...but they are over priced for what you get...you can get the new FI Doo 600 for almost the same price..so why would you buy a 60 HP single cylinder? Like I said earlier I'm fine with the cat yamaha agreement...but why not make a 998 N/A with Eps, and go toe to toe with ski-doo...it's healthy for the industry.

 

[timo]

LOL
that a good one.

way back when your screen name was just abe

 

[old abe]

way back when your screen name was just abe

Yeah, well that's pretty much it! A friend and I grass dragged a GPX 433 F/A. A real "featherlight".

 

[whitedust]

Don't get me wrong...I always like the mutual agreement...Cat makes a fine chassis, and suspension. ...the sidewinder engine is awesome, and the 1050 has been a stellar motor (minus the starting issues with Cat's calibration).
But simply rebadging an M series cat, painting it blue, and calling it a "Mountain Max" is almost a sin to me...I bought a 2001 700 Mountain max from Pat's (if you look waaaaaay back when, on John's Journals from 2001-2002, you can see that very sled busting powder in the keweenaw with John)...it was an amazing sled that never let me down...I put over 5,000 miles on her that winter (the most I have ever done on ANY sled)...so that sled is near and dear to my heart, and I find it almost sac religious to rebadge a cat, and use that name. I think the Venom/blast will be good little sleds...but they are over priced for what you get...you can get the new FI Doo 600 for almost the same price..so why would you buy a 60 HP single cylinder? Like I said earlier I'm fine with the cat yamaha agreement...but why not make a 998 N/A with Eps, and go toe to toe with ski-doo...it's healthy for the industry.

I agree if Yamaha had partnered with Textron to integrate eps in the Viper 4s, SW and TC I think many Yamaha faithful would have said ok lots of Cat DNA here but Yamaha did contribute the eps and their outstanding 4s engines. Well that never happened and probably won’t. I would have considered a SW with eps more hp than I need but only eps model available if it had happened. Why that didn’t happen is very puzzling and disappointing to me. Oh well it’s in Da past and onward with what’s available now.

 

[old abe]

I agree if Yamaha had partnered with Textron to integrate eps in the Viper 4s, SW and TC I think many Yamaha faithful would have said ok lots of Cat DNA here but Yamaha did contribute the eps and their outstanding 4s engines. Well that never happened and probably won’t. I would have considered a SW with eps more hp than I need but only eps model available if it had happened. Why that didn’t happen is very puzzling and disappointing to me. Oh well it’s in Da past and onward with what’s available now.

SW Yama/Cat engine/chassis not "designed" as to be together. Nor is the Viper. Both are "shoehorned kits" that was "just" barley doable. Needed room all but nonexistent. Yamaha's engine downfall is there weight. As not a "specific application" design, no way around it.