Dieselgate - VW TDI

[snobuilder]

You guys are kinda missing the point. It is not an issue of testing methodology, or clean diesel vs European diesel, or the EPA, or Al Gore.

The issue is that VW, the world's largest automaker, deliberately and intentionally wrote code into their diesels that analyzed when the car was being tested and changed the performance of the engine to pass the test. This was also used as a selling point to consumers who thought they were buying "clean diesel".

The code was intentional, not accidental, VW has already admitted to it and the CEO has resigned. It has nothing at all to do with Hillary, Al, EPA, evil liberals, Trump, Obama, Bush, or my buddy Elmo from St. Paul. It is the world's largest car maker intentionally rigging their cars, thus duping 11 million people and many governments around the world. The cars cannot perform as advertised, so let's just cheat the test!

That there is some big balls!

Maybe Bill Belichick should be the new CEO of VW

Not missing the point at all. I commend them for duping the regulators. I love this Boston tea party kind of uppityness!

I doubt ANYONE feels slighted that their VW diesels weren't this so called "clean" you speak of. They were 100% looking at the reports of exceptional fuel mileage owners were getting....and why not????.... isn't the point to save energy for the future generations?....or is it simply to regulate and control the masses through the enormous clout of yet another unelected agency.

I'm not much of a rules are rules guy.

 

[highhertel]

Yep, just another cheating corporation. Not sure who's worse, the government or corporate America.

HH

 

[ezra]

well if it was not for a overreaching bureaucracy who has a worthless testing processes for small diesels corporate America oh sorry corporate Germany would not have to skirt the worthless rules.
any one think this has been on the back burner just waiting for when Germany needs a scapegoat for a collapsing economy ?

 

[polarisrider1]

Yep, just another cheating corporation. Not sure who's worse, the government or corporate America.

HH

The government by far.

 

[snocrazy]

Not missing the point at all. I commend them for duping the regulators. I love this Boston tea party kind of uppityness!

I doubt ANYONE feels slighted that their VW diesels weren't this so called "clean" you speak of. They were 100% looking at the reports of exceptional fuel mileage owners were getting....and why not????.... isn't the point to save energy for the future generations?....or is it simply to regulate and control the masses through the enormous clout of yet another unelected agency.

I'm not much of a rules are rules guy.

I agree with you! No one I know bought these cars to save the world or because they were called "clean diesel". They all bought because of the fuel economy.
Some really good points in this thread. Travel 100 miles @ 50mpg or 100 miles @35mpg. Which one pollutes more? Seems like a no brainer.

 

[whitedust]

It seems to me if one wants the emission standards changed then they should try to change the standards not design software to to fool the emission test. VW auto sales have already hit the skids & those that own VWs have no idea how to fix the problem or what the mpg will be? If that is ok with you then feel free to not use the recall & send your refund checks back to VW...LOL... EPA is here to stay & snowmobilers should realize this more than any other market segment. You don't like injected clean 2s and 4s then don't buy them plenty of dirty 2s out there for ya to run.lol

 

[lenny]

It seems to me if one wants the emission standards changed then they should try to change the standards not design software to to fool the emission test. VW auto sales have already hit the skids & those that own VWs have no idea how to fix the problem or what the mpg will be? If that is ok with you then feel free to not use the recall & send your refund checks back to VW...LOL... EPA is here to stay & snowmobilers should realize this more than any other market segment. You don't like injected clean 2s and 4s then don't buy them plenty of dirty 2s out there for ya to run.lol

I don't see as black and white as you see it. The EPA regulations are crushing. I believe they have an enormous impact on the economy. I'm not glad they did what they did but I understand and would still buy a VW in a heart beat because I think they make good vehicles. IMO the biggest change needs to be from the EPA and back the F off all of us. It won't happen so this is what happens.

 

[G]

EXACTLY! The epa is all passed off, environmentalists are pissed off, yet, not thing is ever said about the emissions jet aircraft emit!

Boy you got that right. The very next time a 757 takes off - and how many take off every day????? - more crap will be put into the atmosphere than all the weedeaters in the world have ever put out. Snowmobiles and lawnmowers and chainsaws and virtually EVERYTHING else is subject to EPA restrictions. It reeks of unburned kerosene at airports. Boeing must have some old POL engineers working there that used to throw more fuel at the old Storms to keep them from burning down.

 

[lenny]

Somebody at VW is going to jail this is no small thing! Everybody got screwed including the environment!

how do you know the environment got screwed ? That's the problem, controversial data produced to fuel an agenda

 

[dcsnomo]

I will be watching to see if people start dumping these used in the market and will scoop one up. This will be a boom for the aftermarket tuners, which, have likely already defeated code and passed emissions.

I had the same thought...

 

[whitedust]

I don't see as black and white as you see it. The EPA regulations are crushing. I believe they have an enormous impact on the economy. I'm not glad they did what they did but I understand and would still buy a VW in a heart beat because I think they make good vehicles. IMO the biggest change needs to be from the EPA and back the F off all of us. It won't happen so this is what happens.

Lenny for me the VW topic is black & white & what VW is/ was doing is wrong. Dcsnow boiled it down well regarding this topic. Now ...does the EPA over reach on other environmental standards?... then I would agree ...Yes... but not on auto emissions tests. There has to be a standard & even VW has said what they did was wrong.

 

[momoney2123]

I agree with you! No one I know bought these cars to save the world or because they were called "clean diesel". They all bought because of the fuel economy.
Some really good points in this thread. Travel 100 miles @ 50mpg or 100 miles @35mpg. Which one pollutes more? Seems like a no brainer.

Not Necessarily true. Some conditions "over fuel" the piston/cylinder which causes a overly rich condition and some fuel to escape unburndt. unburndt fuel=less emissions and worse fuel economy.

This appears to be exactly what VW was doing to "fake" out the emissions test....

 

[whitedust]

how do you know the environment got screwed ? That's the problem, controversial data produced to fuel an agenda

If the EPA tests were created to clean up emissions for our environment and one would think that was the reason for the EPA standards.Then VW writes software to fool the test I would say the environment got screwed by VW. To me a huge company like VW could do much better to meet emission tests than install a work around solution then sell that to the consumer based on false information. Like dcsnow said that there takes some big balls!

 

[dcsnomo]

I chuckle at some of these responses..."VW cheated, therefore the government sucks!"

Companies sell products to people. People buy based upon what the company (and other research) tells them about the product. Consumers expect the product to perform as advertised. If I sell you a box of microwave popcorn and it doesn't pop you will feel cheated. If I sell you a snowmobile that won't start in cold weather you will feel cheated. People bought these vehicles under the premise that they are "clean diesel", and the testing results were used to back up the product claim. The testing results are false not due to an error, but because of intentional fraudulent code written into the vehicle. VW did it, knew it, and cheated 11 million people.

Saying other companies cheat does not exonerate VW
Saying the government sucks, EPA sucks, aftermarket does it, testing sucks, rules suck, does not erase the fact that VW cheated 11 million people JUST LIKE YOU, people who bought a vehicle they thought would perform to a standard that was a lie. Not an error, a fraud.

 

[whitedust]

I chuckle at some of these responses..."VW cheated, therefore the government sucks!"

Companies sell products to people. People buy based upon what the company (and other research) tells them about the product. Consumers expect the product to perform as advertised. If I sell you a box of microwave popcorn and it doesn't pop you will feel cheated. If I sell you a snowmobile that won't start in cold weather you will feel cheated. People bought these vehicles under the premise that they are "clean diesel", and the testing results were used to back up the product claim. The testing results are false not due to an error, but because of intentional fraudulent code written into the vehicle. VW did it, knew it, and cheated 11 million people.

Saying other companies cheat does not exonerate VW
Saying the government sucks, EPA sucks, aftermarket does it, testing sucks, rules suck, does not erase the fact that VW cheated 11 million people JUST LIKE YOU, people who bought a vehicle they thought would perform to a standard that was a lie. Not an error, a fraud.

Amen!... seems straight forward to me too + VW admitted to wrong doing.... talk about holding the smoking gun better to come clean at this point work on a recall to save their reputation worldwide if possible. This is a HUGE problem for VW & has brought their USA sales to a unit dribble.

 

[Hoosier]

Amen!... seems straight forward to me too + VW admitted to wrong doing.... talk about holding the smoking gun better to come clean at this point work on a recall to save their reputation worldwide if possible. This is a HUGE problem for VW & has brought their USA sales to a unit dribble.

Everything I've read says these vehicles got better MPG's than advertised. I doubt the consumers felt screwed. No one is going to buy a VW diesel now since you don't know what the outcome is going to be and how they'll work after they are "fixed." Looks like BMW may have had some issues too with their diesels.

I think we'd all like it if the sled manufacturers found a way to "cheat" the EPA so that we can have more reliable 2 strokes.

 

[whitedust]

Everything I've read says these vehicles got better MPG's than advertised. I doubt the consumers felt screwed. No one is going to buy a VW diesel now since you don't know what the outcome is going to be and how they'll work after they are "fixed." Looks like BMW may have had some issues too with their diesels.

I think we'd all like it if the sled manufacturers found a way to "cheat" the EPA so that we can have more reliable 2 strokes.

I would only be repeating myself over & over regarding this issue. If cheating is alright with you then so be it I would not be able to convince you that VW would have been well advised to to seek a software solution to meet not fool emissions tests. The buying public is NOT buying these non compliant autos so many feel VW has not done the right thing. To me VW will be forced to meet EPA standards still perform at outstanding mpg & the tech will move on as always just like injected 2s for sleds. To me the question for VW is why in the heck did you do this knowing eventually you would need to correct at a very large cost to the company & market reputation????

 

[Cirrus_Driver]

I chuckle at some of these responses..."VW cheated, therefore the government sucks!"

Companies sell products to people. People buy based upon what the company (and other research) tells them about the product. Consumers expect the product to perform as advertised. If I sell you a box of microwave popcorn and it doesn't pop you will feel cheated. If I sell you a snowmobile that won't start in cold weather you will feel cheated. People bought these vehicles under the premise that they are "clean diesel", and the testing results were used to back up the product claim. The testing results are false not due to an error, but because of intentional fraudulent code written into the vehicle. VW did it, knew it, and cheated 11 million people.

Saying other companies cheat does not exonerate VW
Saying the government sucks, EPA sucks, aftermarket does it, testing sucks, rules suck, does not erase the fact that VW cheated 11 million people JUST LIKE YOU, people who bought a vehicle they thought would perform to a standard that was a lie. Not an error, a fraud.

It's a gross overestimation, and misrepresentation, of the reason your average consumer buys a TDI Passat. It's all about the 42 MPG, and very little about the invisible smoke plumes in the rear view. Unless you're a left wing, environmental extremist. They won't be clamoring to get them "fixed".

 

[Admin]

Let's just say...hypothetically.....that a guy owned one of these VW TDIs and was a little worried about things. What brand of oil might he want to use?

And should he use hand signals or rely on the turn signals on the vehicle?

Hee...Hee. Just having some fun!

HAPPY FRIDAY EVERYONE! Two months an a handful of days and it will be time to light this candle!

-John

 

[Hoosier]

I would only be repeating myself over & over regarding this issue. If cheating is alright with you then so be it I would not be able to convince you that VW would have been well advised to to seek a software solution to meet not fool emissions tests. The buying public is NOT buying these non compliant autos so many feel VW has not done the right thing. To me VW will be forced to meet EPA standards still perform at outstanding mpg & the tech will move on as always just like injected 2s for sleds. To me the question for VW is why in the heck did you do this knowing eventually you would need to correct at a very large cost to the company & market reputation????

VW is completely fraudulent - agree 100% and not arguing about that. I'm just commenting more that this is an indication of the issues caused by the arbitrary EPA regs.

As to your question, I'm assuming like most frauds they didn't think they would be caught, or they thought the gains would be worth the costs of doing so. They are struggling big time anyway.