Electric vehicle

[goofy600]

There are currently 225 charging facilities in Michigan. By 2030 there will be 10000. They are already mostly funded by Congress in a bill passed last year. The switch will occur. There is really not much to debate .

Not going to argue your numbers, but to trust the government to get that done is not very reassuring, especially in UP. They promised us (western UP) high speed internet (government supported) by 2022 in 2021 now saying 2023 and I would be willing to bet won’t happen by 2024. So I believe they may have the hopes to do it but just don’t believe it will happen.

 

[G]

Ok mrbb. You are not normal. I don't mean that in a bad way. The average USA driver is calculated to drive 12000 miles a year. That is what the window stickers on all the new vehicles sold use for a number when they calculate yearly expenses for fuel. EVs currently are not designed for everyone. They are designed for the average guy or gal that drives 'normal miles ' 90 percent of the population. Right now you won't go far towing a 5000 lb trailer with an EV pickup. But remember, you are also getting lousy mileage pulling 5000 lbs with your gasser. I get about 7 to 8 mpg when I pull my boat with my gasser. It will be far less expensive to refill my Lightning with juice than it is to refill my current F150 with gas. Not even close. It is just a matter of finding fast charging stations. Which are few and far between right now but are scheduled to explode in the very near future.

As far as the worst possible case and you do run your EV out of juice on the lonely highway I foresee a new service industry of rescue vehicles that can fast charge any EV out in the boonies. Not unlike the wrecker services we have now. It will be an expensive phone call but even the wrecker services we have now are expensive phone calls. The chances of you expiring because of heat or cold or whatever in your EV will be no greater than in an ICE vehicle. And nobody in a stranded EV will die because of carbon monoxide poisoning.
Right now the EV companies of the world - and not just the US - are designing EVs for the masses. The 90 percent. For those that tow big loads or drive 700 miles a day EVs are not there yet. And might not be for awhile. The average American driver drives less than 50 miles a day. That is the target market. And that is where EVs shine. However as more and faster charging stations get built range is not going to be a problem for anyone in the very near future.

 

[G]

Not going to argue your numbers, but to trust the government to get that done is not very reassuring, especially in UP. They promised us (western UP) high speed internet (government supported) by 2022 in 2021 now saying 2023 and I would be willing to bet won’t happen by 2024. So I believe they may have the hopes to do it but just don’t believe it will happen.

I absolutely hear you on the government. Here in MN I can tell you how it is working. Myself and two other businessmen are buying a crappy old building in the center of town. We are a small town of 900. This is a central location within walking distance of all our so called 'attractions" We have a coffee shop, a wine bar, a local brewery as well as a sit down convenience store and my own grocery store/deli with a sit down area. Also one of the local hotels is only a block away.
We have purchased this old crappy building and it will be torn down very soon. Like in the coming week or two. When it is gone our local power provider will tell us exactly what they require for a site. It is THEY that have the actual reigns and grant money for EV stations in MN. It is my understanding that we will provide them with a clean paved site with an awning. Preferably set up for drive through traffic so somebody with a trailer doesn't have to back up.

I am in total and complete agreement with you about leaving the government in charge. Of just about anything. But If it gets farmed out to private industry then it has a chance. Anyway that is what is going on in MN.

We are killing two birds with one stone here in our little town. Getting rid of an old crappy building and replacing it with something useful. The public support has been amazing. And we are so far out in the sticks that sticks are hard to come by. So I truly believe there is hope for the UP and basically everywhere. Even North Dakota is getting up to speed.

 

[mrbb]

Ok mrbb. You are not normal. I don't mean that in a bad way. The average USA driver is calculated to drive 12000 miles a year. That is what the window stickers on all the new vehicles sold use for a number when they calculate yearly expenses for fuel. EVs currently are not designed for everyone. They are designed for the average guy or gal that drives 'normal miles ' 90 percent of the population. Right now you won't go far towing a 5000 lb trailer with an EV pickup. But remember, you are also getting lousy mileage pulling 5000 lbs with your gasser. I get about 7 to 8 mpg when I pull my boat with my gasser. It will be far less expensive to refill my Lightning with juice than it is to refill my current F150 with gas. Not even close. It is just a matter of finding fast charging stations. Which are few and far between right now but are scheduled to explode in the very near future.

As far as the worst possible case and you do run your EV out of juice on the lonely highway I foresee a new service industry of rescue vehicles that can fast charge any EV out in the boonies. Not unlike the wrecker services we have now. It will be an expensive phone call but even the wrecker services we have now are expensive phone calls. The chances of you expiring because of heat or cold or whatever in your EV will be no greater than in an ICE vehicle. And nobody in a stranded EV will die because of carbon monoxide poisoning.
Right now the EV companies of the world - and not just the US - are designing EVs for the masses. The 90 percent. For those that tow big loads or drive 700 miles a day EVs are not there yet. And might not be for awhile. The average American driver drives less than 50 miles a day. That is the target market. And that is where EVs shine. However as more and faster charging stations get built range is not going to be a problem for anyone in the very near future.

NO offence taken and I said i USED to drive 50k+ a yr, the past 5 yrs or so I am driving under 20k
but that still hasn;t hanged me getting stuck in traffic at time, me and my sister take turns running to our parents house, its a 100+ miles 1 way for me and about 200 for her

we both have been grid locked dead in the water several times this yr
so getting stuck in traffic is a honest common deal in MY area and she gets stuck along the way of her 200 miles in different spots as well! so ,its not just MY area
I am well over the million miles of driving club, most likely closer to 2 million than 1, if being honest!

in that time I have encountered dozens of folks that ran out of fuel, some I gave a ride to some I actually went and got fuel for!
it happens a lot more than many wish to believe, some people are just Lazy and or like to push the limits due to they DON"T want to stop to refill!
I know several people that run out every yr at least once, sad but true, there well know for it and been that way for 25+ yrs?? some folks never learn! IMO

MY worries about running out of POWER in E vehicle, is NOT dying, or freezing to death, its about turning a grid lock road way into a LONGER grid lock road way
as you state there is NO way NOW< to FAST charge things
so, its again like lack of a plan IMO and till things have fixes, pushing them SO hard seem's to me like a BAD idea!
as stated some folks will run out, due to they way they are, no matter the fuel type the vehicle runs on
yet, if you have a few E vehicles die in traffic, I see bigger problems! than adding a can of fuel to get going!

Also on E vehicles and how many have different types of chargers, they do NOT all have a universal power port
I'd hope they are now doing so, but one's made up till now, many are different!
which won;t help in finding places to charge!

all this talk about what WILL be, but isn;t is All TALK, if were being honest
talk is cheap as they say
over my life time I heard many things said that would happen yet never came to be!
just claiming something will happen, doesn't IMO< justify pushing a product that doesn't yet have the support yet in place for it
and this I feel is the way many folks feel about E vehicles
its not we think there BAD or never will happen
we just dislike the way there being marketed and pushed onto futures we cannot predict! and costing everyone a LOT of $$ in the mean time on hopes and promises of words , about what WILL some day BE there for E vehicles!
I drive a diesel pickup truck, I get an honest 13-15 towing, and 18-20 driving empty!
not bad IMO for a 8000+ lb truck shaped like a brick! HAHA!
and if emissions were not so tight them MPG's could be a bunch higher! and fossil fuel is rather well in place to supply it, if allowed to use till other things are in better shape to be used by ALL!
and all the talk of the future and what will be, is great, but I still live in the present, not the future!

 

[G]

I can see where you think EVs are being pushed on you. I don't like things pushed on me either. But in reality you don't have to change anything you do or drive until you want to. You don't have to do anything.

But when it becomes obvious that it is more economically feasable to use an EV instead of an ICE vehicle you might have to revisit some of your arguments. In the end it is going to be cheaper to own and operate an EV. There are just a fraction of things to wear out compared to an ICE vehicle. Tires. That is about it. And $$$ always tells the tale.

I truly believe this day is coming. And sooner than most folks think. I could certainly be wrong. I have been wrong before on many things.

However when the entire world is intent on shifting from a gas world to an EV world a person has to sit up and take notice. This is not a Republican thing or a Democrat thing. It is not a Trump or a Biden thing. It is a world thing.

 

[G]

On a side note. The first 2700 Lightnings made are for the Ford dealers. The are in all trim levels from the basic $45000 fleet trucks to the decked out Platinums. They are for anyone and everyone to try out. The Ford dealers can't sell these trucks for six months. They are for the general public to sample. There were 700 miles on my dealer's XLT after the first week. There is a lot of interest here. Go to your local Ford dealership and ask to drive one. Whether you think this whole thing is a good thing or not.

 

[G]

Also the window sticker on the XLT is $54356.00. You don't have to spend $80000 if you don't want to

 

[heckler56]

To the OP, check out Grub’s(?) Ordered a Ford Lighting, we beat this dead horse there.

I remain neutral. There are issues that will eventually need to be dealt with. Power grid improvements (look at Texas asking for people to turn off AC, future - don’t charge your cars). Lithium mining and the chemicals involved in the process as well as the hazardous chemicals to produce solar panels. EMTs will have be trained to handle lithium fires that are hot and fast (e cigarettes, laptop fires and those are small batteries).

In the UK their media is beginning to discuss these issues.

I like that at MSU they created a parking lot under a solar array. I applaud their thinking of not wasting fields for solar arrays and making it multipurpose. We need more open thinking.

Fast charging is still slow compared to filling a gas vehicle. This means to not have long lines to charge we need many more chargers than current gas pumps.

These BEVs are currently heavy to feed our need for driving range. Tesla already offers “long range vs shorter range” built vehicles.

To the poster mentioning regenerative braking, I am addicted. Audi and several other mfrs started using this in the 24 hours of LeMans over 10 years ago. When I am going stop light to stop light in town I actually end up building battery range. I strongly predict my brakes will last allot longer than previous cars I have owned.

Charging outside the home deminishes the “savings” dramatically.

 

[gary_in_neenah]

And we are so far out in the sticks that sticks are hard to come by.

I'm gonna write that one down. Hats off to you sir!

 

[mrbb]

I keep thinking of an old saying
about
Don't count your chickens till they hatch!, and its never a good idea to put all your eggs in one basket!

all the talk again about what WILL be, what will happen, IMO is a LOT of words, and like many times words many times don't end up to anything but words!

I truly don;t think our electrical grid NOW can barely keep up with demand
even if they added more e charging stations, I still find it hard to believe that if say 50% of the population got a E vehicle, there would;t be huge waiting at charging stations
I have watched several REAL world testing on E vehicles including the new F 150 lighting, and the CLAIMS of charging as to the real world charging times were off quite a bit in the tests done!
when compared to a gas, diesel and E truck of same size likes
the Diesel was cheaper to fill up, had longer range and well, was back on the road traveling in a fraction of the time it took to get even half way charged again on the Lighting!
which is what I say a ISSUE
as TILL fast charges happen, LONG Lines would be crazy as things are now, if a LOT of E vehicles suddenly starting running roads

yes charging at home would solve things,
but that isn't always a reality , I mean think about it, if you could ONLY fill your ICE vehicle at home, how inconvenient would that be!

YES things MAY get better , BUT like ALL things TECH, wise, it seems things get outdated pretty fast any more
look how many generations of the I phone have happened in a short period of time??

and again, since all OEM"S don;t seem to even have a SET standard for charging ports/plugs
even with more charging stations, who's to say they will have the right plug to connect too!

look how long it took MOST Smart phones to have the same charger port/plug?

I again am NOT bashing E vehicles
I just rally feel the way there pushing them and the transition to them, has been piss poor in how it was carried out
had it been worked out,planned better, I think it would have had much less resistance with many folks!
there is a LOT of HYPE On them, that is honestly a lot of WHAT IF"S

if we get more chargers, IF we can find ways to charge faster, IF we get more reliable electrical grids in play!and so on!
if we look back at history, say the 70's when we had a BIG oil fuel crisis, SMALL compact cars were the so called solution
but honestly they never took off as expected !
some sure did jump on board of them too!

but in the real world, a LOT of folks drive BIG vehicles due to WANTS over needs! HAHA!~

 

[G]

Most of the power grids are up to the task. If most charging is done at night. Which is kind of the plan.Think of the power grid as a 16 inch pipe. The only time it runs full is about four hours a day in the summertime. At night a two inch pipe would be enough. In the winter a ten inch pipe would be all you need during the day. The power grids are built to handle the absolute peak. But most of the time they are under utilized. My own rural electric is looking forward to increased sales and revenue from EVs charging at night.
Charging at a peak time is going to cost you. In fact I could see different rates for different times of the day. And that is how the power companies will handle it. I know this will upset some people but rolling blackouts are just a tool the power companies use when there is not enough power to feed everything. Rolling blackouts do not mean the system is broken. I could see fast chargers shut down during peak load times . But as time goes on there will be better batteries that require less charging. Already billions are being spent on solid state battery inovation which last longer and go farther than lithium based batteries. Also there are 'salt' batteries that also use no lithium. So it is all advancing daily. I can understand why some want to wait until all the problems are figured out and all the questions are answered. As I have researched this for the last four years most of my questions have been answered and I am comfortable buying my Lightning. I am keeping my 18 gas Lariat because I know the limitations of the Lightning. But I think it will be fun to be part of the transition. I am looking forward to it and I will honestly report back my experiences both good and bad for the rest of you to draw your own conclusions.

 

[G]

I will have to go to the Tracker School Of Posting Pictures To John Dees.

 

[pclark]

"Most of the power grids are up to the task. If most charging is done at night. Which is kind of the plan.Think of the power grid as a 16 inch pipe. The only time it runs full is about four hours a day in the summertime. At night a two inch pipe would be enough. In the winter a ten inch pipe would be all you need during the day. The power grids are built to handle the absolute peak. But most of the time they are under utilized. My own rural electric is looking forward to increased sales and revenue from EVs charging at night."

What happens when electric heat is forced upon us all? You do you realize that this is happening in progressive communities across the nation? Clean burning Natural Gas is now a bad thing to the Progressives, just like Oil is. My personal belief is that because no one plans out anything anymore they just expect wild ass ideas (by that I mean just charging into this and cutting oil production, not EV or renewable energy) that have no thought put into them to be accepted and work form day one when in all reality this is the foolishness that has us where we are today with energy prices be where they are which is leading to the inflationary prices that are squeezing most people hard today. I'm a reasonable person but you aren't going to get me on board until you have a proven plan that shows me that right now this is best for us, it may be in the future but we have a very long road ahead of us to get there.

 

[old abe]

"Most of the power grids are up to the task. If most charging is done at night. Which is kind of the plan.Think of the power grid as a 16 inch pipe. The only time it runs full is about four hours a day in the summertime. At night a two inch pipe would be enough. In the winter a ten inch pipe would be all you need during the day. The power grids are built to handle the absolute peak. But most of the time they are under utilized. My own rural electric is looking forward to increased sales and revenue from EVs charging at night."

What happens when electric heat is forced upon us all? You do you realize that this is happening in progressive communities across the nation? Clean burning Natural Gas is now a bad thing to the Progressives, just like Oil is. My personal belief is that because no one plans out anything anymore they just expect wild ass ideas (by that I mean just charging into this and cutting oil production, not EV or renewable energy) that have no thought put into them to be accepted and work form day one when in all reality this is the foolishness that has us where we are today with energy prices be where they are which is leading to the inflationary prices that are squeezing most people hard today. I'm a reasonable person but you aren't going to get me on board until you have a proven plan that shows me that right now this is best for us, it may be in the future but we have a very long road ahead of us to get there.

Kind of a stretch, eh. US inflation is at the lower end of World levels of inflation. And yes, Oil, Energy prices have been the major cause of Inflation Periods in the US for 45 plus years. just fact.

 

[katden4]

One thing that concerns me is everything is being compared to cost of electric now. once they have a majority of the vehicles electric, I see the rates going way up with really now way for the common people to control it. Just like gas. Right now EV seems like a less expensive way of driving per mile. Two or three, five years from now? who knows what the cost will be. For now both my vehicles drive too far for it to work for the wife and I. I can see it when we do retire, and don't have the 375 mile trips north. I guess at that time, I would do solar panels on the garage, house, or both. We had a remote cabin off the grid for just about 20 years. In the last couple years I finally did a solar system that was really nice for us. I don't think I would do the battery back up, just the straight panels. For now I welcome the new power for vehicles, Its just not for me yet.

 

[whitedust]

My son in law runs auto body shops out of Peoria IL the so called typical mid America community and he has seen zero EVs. Tesla has one body repair shop located in Chicago somewhere. Just another thing that isn’t ready for mass consumption. Whatever happens don’t dent your new EV no parts and OEMs not allowing your fav body shop to repair it at shop of your choice. Again a plan is needed to have an orderly transition to EV.

 

[old abe]

T

My son in law runs auto body shops out of Peoria IL the so called typical mid America community and he has seen zero EVs. Tesla has one body repair shop located in Chicago somewhere. Just another thing that isn’t ready for mass consumption. Whatever happens don’t dent your new EV no parts and OEMs not allowing your fav body shop to repair it at shop of your choice. Again a plan is needed to have an orderly transition to EV.

The same was said about the F 150 aluminum body when it was released. But outside/independent body shops were quick to adapt. My F 150 was the first one my choice of body shops worked on. He said no problems.

 

[mrbb]

T

The same was said about the F 150 aluminum body when it was released. But outside/independent body shops were quick to adapt. My F 150 was the first one my choice of body shops worked on. He said no problems.

body shop"s didn;t adapt, what they did was
they just DON"T fix damaged area's on them they sell you 100% complete new parts
dent a bed, you buy a whole new bed, , where a metal bed, they can repair!
so its a BIG difference in costs on repairs!

same goes for a door, or a hood or a CAB, or?/
the costs to FIX an aluminum body vehicle is a LOT higher due to they only use all new parts, over repairing just damaged area's with cheaper fixes!
SO< its not really any adapted solution , just higher costs for repairs

and I am a BIG fan of the aluminum bodies, so NO bash here, I wish ALL oem's used them!, rust is a BIG problem in my area, so I'm all for things that don;t rust on a vehicle
just saying!

 

[mrbb]

and as for charging working better at night, that's great for those at home sleeping
but we live in a 24/7 world where folks work and travel at all hours of day and night!
and most folks are just plain about in day time, so there is risks of power outages with the current system in place from excessive draw , or possibly!
which again says simply, its not a system up to task, if everyone jumped on board for E vehicles
you already seen how FATS all the F 150's sold
what if that happened to more vehicles
where would the system be?
just saying
they pushed a vehicle out there when supplies for it to WORK , are not up to the task
NO universal charging plugs, few charging stations, electrical grid honestly at risk in many places AS IS, without added use of it! and the list can go on!
like i said, I am not hating on E vehicles, just the way things are being pushed on us! with a real plan in effect to handle things!
its a great novelty vehicle for those that can AFFORD one
as a second vehicle!
which is NOT a huge percentage of the population, most only can afford to have 1 vehicle!, and when the push to go E vehicle is also effecting costs of other vehicles and other things (which they are if we can be honest)
it is being forced on us in a round about way!
I have to be honest and say again, it was handled is a piss poor way!

 

[G]

Kind of a stretch, eh. US inflation is at the lower end of World levels of inflation. And yes, Oil, Energy prices have been the major cause of Inflation Periods in the US for 45 plus years. just fact.

And gas and diesel are cheap here compared to what the rest of the world has been paying for years and years.