Gas

[xcr440]

I am most certainly a ' stuff ' collector too. A bunch of stuff I just had to have at the time. A couple of Christmas's ago my first daughter was home and came out to see me in my 40 by 72 lair. Where all my stuff is. After she weaseled her way around all my ' stuff ' to find me she said ' you know, dad. If you die we are going to sell all this stuff. ' Since then I have been downsizing. Now I only have one boat and two Banshees and six snowmobiles. Save them the trouble of getting rid of my stuff. Which really only matters to me.

My dad tipped over 8 years ago. It was about 20 years ago, he told us, when he dies, rent a D8 Cat, have them dig a big hole in the middle of the field (10 acre property) and push everything I have in there and bury it! We all laughed, but when he tipped over, my god what a bunch of junk he had. I did my best sorting through it over the years and Craigslisting what would sell, but the blue dumpster my mom has for her garbage was topped off for about the first 5 years he was gone.
The local communities around me lost their best Garage Sale purchaser when my dad tipped over....

As for electric yard tools - I agree with what has been said. NONE of the services/companies that do the town house communities around me have electric stuff. Sure, the cookie cutter houses with yards the size of a postage stamp, yeah, electric is probably more than enough. Anything beyond that, good luck.

 

[katden4]

I am not against electric vehicles, or the future going that way. But doing it the way they are is financial suicide for many Americans. When you look at $6.00 gas, I can survive that. But when you look at every single product that goes on the shelves at the grocery store, home building stores, basically everything we use every day is shipped by truck, train, boat, or plane, and they all run on gas, or diesel. This is costing the US people BILLIONS, with B. Joe and his team have no clue what everyday people pay for things, or having home budget for food, and heat, and electric. Having an electric grocery getter to get back and forth for errands is one thing. But the day to day trucking, and shipping is not even close to being ready for electric. Our normal every day items have gone up 50% if not more from this horrible plan.

 

[mrbb]

lets try this, if the goal is to use less fossil fuels, lower emissions
WHY have they Not put forth any great effort into reviving the railroad system
a train can hauls millions of tons of product faster and using less fuel that trucks, and cars
there is a basic railroad track lay out across the USA
tons of it runs past most warehouse's and industrial parks!
if folks dis like using diesel for fuel in them, why not FIRST get them to be electric!
could have dedicated stops to re charge(or at all drop off spots?
but yet there is as far as I know ZERO talk in doing this!
this is IMO an example , of logic versus agenda!
the goal of reaching less pollution, emissions, fossil fuel being used, and the way there going about it now, makes little sense IMO
its Something over nothing, maybe, but that doesn;t mean its going in the right direction or taking the right steps to see it happen!
there are a lot of less painful ways they could start changing use of fossil fuels and changing or alternatives that would not effect the average person so harshly
which again says to me they had very little realistic planning here before f doing what they did!
now trying to play catch up for mistakes made over having any foresight!

 

[G]

If you go lumberjacking for half a day then an electric chainsaw isn't going to be of much use to you. If you have an eight acre lawn an electric lawnmower isn't going to work for you. But most people don't have eight acre yards or a lumberjack hobby. Most people have cookie cutter yards and only use a chainsaw three times a year to maybe do some storm cleanup or cut one tree down that your wife doesn't like anymore. For small jobs like this it is nice to know you have a tool that you don't have to fight to start just to get going. Or you can't put your hands on a bottle of premix oil. Or you have old gas and have to go town to get new gas.

Electric stuff will take over when it is actually better. More convenient and more efficient. Not before. But it will happen. And I think that day is a lot closer than most people think it is. For some that day is already here. For others that day will never come. Look how far electric hand tools have come. Does anyone not own a cordless drill? Anyone??? How about a cordless 3/8 impact driver? That has proven to be the best and most useful tool I have ever bought. Cordless Sawsall? Can't be without it. If I were a diesel mechanic I would probably stick with pneumatic tools where you need constant and strong power. But I am not a diesel mechanic. Actually most people are not diesel mechanics. For most people that don't use power tools every day or for their chosen occupation electric is already good enough. My wife will not even look at my gas Echo weed whip. But she can do a lot of damage with her little battery job. Maybe not all at one time. But she gets it done. And I don't have to do it. And I like that.

 

[G]

Nobody is being forced in to anything. You can still buy whatever you want. There is nothing new about electric cars. Tesla has been around for over a decade. And they can't make new Teslas fast enough. Nobody negotiates the price of a new Tesla. They cost what they cost. And that is what they sell for. Has anyone ever seen a Tesla on the side of the road presumably out of power? Has anyone ever seen a Tesla getting towed? How many of you have ever driven or ridden in a Tesla?

The battery warranty on a new Ford Lightning is 8 years or 100000 miles of at least 70 percent original capacity. The Tesla's batteries are lasting longer than advertised. Sure from time to time you will read about one that puked at 40000 miles but that is the exception to the norm.

I will never pay for a new battery for my Lightning. Just as I have never payed for a new motor or transmission in any of the last of seven or eight Ford pickups I have bought new. Because I don't keep anything long enough to go off warranty. So nothing will change much there. Except the warranty on the power train on a gas Ford is 60000 miles and not 100000 like the Lightning.

No oil changes. No transmission. No differentials. No cooling system. No exhaust system. No belts. No hoses. The thing will run my house for days if there is a power failure. So I don't have to screw around with a separate generator for that.

For me there is a lot to like here. I am going to keep my gas pickup for towing and for long distance runs. Because no, we do not yet have an adequate and reliable charging system. But it is getting closer every day. I anticipate driving the Lightning about 90 percent of the time.

There will be some surprises. I know that. I live where it can get to forty below. So it will be interesting to see how that goes. I know it will suck battery capacity. But my gas pickup does not get good mileage in the winter either. Come to think of it my gas pickup doesn't get anywhere near what the window sticker said. None of the pickups I have bought ever get what the window stickers said. The window sticker says 22 highway. When I am driving 77 down the interstate highway I am getting right around 16. Less if there is any kind of a headwind or side wind. This is only about three miles to the gallon better than the 1977 chevy pickup I had way back when. So spare me the fantasy that the new gas pickups get advertised mpg numbers. They don't. They never have. Maybe if you drive 50. But not in real life.

Anyway, I am looking forward to getting the Lightning. And I will report the experience back to everyone both good and bad. My local power coop will put the charging system for the Lightning in my garage. They too want to find out actual charging costs for it. They are going to put a separate in line meter on the isolated charging circuit we will be using. I will be using local off peak to charge it. So it will all be kind of a grand experiment.

 

[mrbb]

Nobody is being forced in to anything. You can still buy whatever you want. There is nothing new about electric cars. Tesla has been around for over a decade. And they can't make new Teslas fast enough. Nobody negotiates the price of a new Tesla. They cost what they cost. And that is what they sell for. Has anyone ever seen a Tesla on the side of the road presumably out of power? Has anyone ever seen a Tesla getting towed? How many of you have ever driven or ridden in a Tesla?

The battery warranty on a new Ford Lightning is 8 years or 100000 miles of at least 70 percent original capacity. The Tesla's batteries are lasting longer than advertised. Sure from time to time you will read about one that puked at 40000 miles but that is the exception to the norm.

I will never pay for a new battery for my Lightning. Just as I have never payed for a new motor or transmission in any of the last of seven or eight Ford pickups I have bought new. Because I don't keep anything long enough to go off warranty. So nothing will change much there. Except the warranty on the power train on a gas Ford is 60000 miles and not 100000 like the Lightning.

No oil changes. No transmission. No differentials. No cooling system. No exhaust system. No belts. No hoses. The thing will run my house for days if there is a power failure. So I don't have to screw around with a separate generator for that.

For me there is a lot to like here. I am going to keep my gas pickup for towing and for long distance runs. Because no, we do not yet have an adequate and reliable charging system. But it is getting closer every day. I anticipate driving the Lightning about 90 percent of the time.

There will be some surprises. I know that. I live where it can get to forty below. So it will be interesting to see how that goes. I know it will suck battery capacity. But my gas pickup does not get good mileage in the winter either. Come to think of it my gas pickup doesn't get anywhere near what the window sticker said. None of the pickups I have bought ever get what the window stickers said. The window sticker says 22 highway. When I am driving 77 down the interstate highway I am getting right around 16. Less if there is any kind of a headwind or side wind. This is only about three miles to the gallon better than the 1977 chevy pickup I had way back when. So spare me the fantasy that the new gas pickups get advertised mpg numbers. They don't. They never have. Maybe if you drive 50. But not in real life.

Anyway, I am looking forward to getting the Lightning. And I will report the experience back to everyone both good and bad. My local power coop will put the charging system for the Lightning in my garage. They too want to find out actual charging costs for it. They are going to put a separate in line meter on the isolated charging circuit we will be using. I will be using local off peak to charge it. So it will all be kind of a grand experiment.

well you say no one is forcing anyone, I dis agree, the current president is forcing the hands of many to MOVE towards the direction he wants , like it or not this is a fact!
so we are being forced in a way!,

next I have both been in a Tesla and have seen one broke down on the side of the road, (my sisters kid owns one)
you already know there is only a SMALL percentage of them about, so, its NOT a big surprise a LOT of folks don;t see them broken down, its a percentage game, vehicles of ALL brands break down, they are no different, just fixes road side for them are farther and fewer know of them!, for now any how!

my point here is, simply, if you look at the number of folks that run out of fuel, by taking to towing company's you will realize a LOT of folks do this(heck I have a dumbass brother in law that does it 5-6 times a yr, he seems to think he gets his money worth out of his AAA doing so?>? )
so again, I highly doubt people going to electrical vehicles will be any more reliable on charging over adding fuel, which is right now a more convenient deal,
as there are more gas stations about than charging stations!
yet folks still run out of fuel

NEXT, you stated, NO window sticker was ever accurate, and I fully agree, unless under perfect conditions or likes, but on average , driving with the " GO WITH THE FLOW"< speeds and hills and ?? well, them window stickers never really accurate, I agree!

SO< why do you think the window sticker on a E vehicle will be any more accurate !
I foresee there claims to be just like gas/diesel claims, they will be off! and this is most likely a fact many don't want to admit that want E vehicles!(no bash here just saying )
some how folks that want E vehicles , but they some how want the world to believe all the claims will be better some how,

when we all know OEM's, well, LIE more or less, about what they really will do on the window sticker, than in real world conditions!

hell, there isn;t even a ton of DATA about due to them being as new as they are, and such a small percentage of them about compared to gas/diesel, and they cannot get gas diesel facts right!

and its not just Tesla that has been making them over a decade, there has been many, yet again few are owning them, over the last decade!
till all the HYPE , fear or need to want to conform, or save the planet suddenly! now being pushed by current president that has a war going on against fossil fuel!
if we can again be honest,
prior to his election, E vehicles were NOT in the focus they are now!, few were even thinking much about them, so again forced on us?
so again, in a way YES we are being forced in a direction!

YES some times things go better with e vehicles , but on average?? they are far from the level many want them to be at IMO!
and hey, be honest, window stickers are like pop up adds, making claims that seldom are true!

NEXT, you compare warranty's from fossil fuel to e vehicles,
well, I can tell you for a FACT, ALL Oem's have tons and ton's pf warranty claims LONG before them warranty's expire!
like window sticker, just cause it says it will last to"X" miles, hours yrs? doesn;t always mean it will, I'd even gather few do!

of the say 25+ new vehicles I have owned,(used to buy a new vehicle every 2-3 yrs, and some yrs a few different types of new vehicles ) as a fact NONE have ever got to the expired warranty miles without several repairs, and I have owned vehicles of many different brands and types!
so I again doubt e vehicles are any different !

NEXT say you will never get to the place where a vehicle will be out of warranty , well that's great and again NO bash, BUT not everyone can afford to do this, all the more so with current crazy high prices on new vehicles!
so a large percentage of folks are having to buy and use these older vehicles that are out of warranty, or own and keep a vehicle a long time, where will they be?? I doubt there are many 10+ yr old electrical vehicles still running on our road ways, even if they have been being built longer than this! where are them old one's?
Long gone parked some place!?? there is sure a lot of 10+ yr old gas/diesel vehicles in my area and places I travel too!

NEXT< cordless tools, YUP, I love many of them, also have/had some that sucked, I can also tell you that as ALL of my batteries age, they make all my tools run weaker and hold a charge a lot shorter than they did new!
some died way faster than were supposed too too!
as a FACT many models of tools I have 3 or more of the same model, and I can tell you they DON"T all work as great as the first one did!
seems that like most things in life, as demand for "X" model ITEM, , as they MASS produce them, quality starts to slip, and its not as great as the originals that came out before getting High demand for them!
seen this in countess items over my life time!, which to me just says, just cause something gets popular, doesn;t mean it gets made better! or last longer
HELL< I honestly think we live in a world today where NO company really wants to make anything last LONG, they only try to get it to last long enough folks don;t complain,. NO money in making something that last forever!, will sell more if it fails and needs replacing!! so consumers buy again!,
AKA< a disposable world we live in with this mind set, and if were trying to save the planet, maybe that's a wrong mind set, but its more profitable than making things last forever! HUMM<

 

[mrbb]

Grub, hey question for you<
if you use your truck to power your home in a power failure, and you then run battery down in truck before power comes back on, that seems like an issue to me ??
I know you said you plan to keep a gas truck about, but what if others don;t have that luxury or foresight! ?

seems like it could lead to problems for folks that don;t think so far ahead! or?? HAHA!

and hey NO bash on E vehicles, we have to start somewhere with them
in order for them to get better!

 

[katden4]

Everything you talk about is homeowner use. The problem we have right now is all commercial related. Most everyone could swallow the $6.00 fuel right now. But that's only a very very small part of the problem that an American household has. Its all the products that come by truck, train, plane, boat. None of this transportation is ready for electric, none! So simple things like clothing, and groceries, things we use everyday day have gone up by 50% or better if you can get them. Electric is fine for the basic homeowner, but taking a look at commercial vehicles or equipment, its a different story. The future will have it, but its not ready now that's for sure. Even your coop has no idea what this will cost? Doesn't that clearly say, we don't know? So why is it, that the current administration is basically gambling with our tax funds? If they were my finical advisor, they would be fired. They right now are costing the US tax payers Billions with their plan. I for one do not care for their plan, and hope it ends soon. Electric will be the future, but its not ready today.

 

[whitedust]

Tesla is at best 1.5% of current vehicles small chance of seeing one on the road in WI probably more likely in CA more wealthy people and green freaks.

 

[whitedust]

Grub, hey question for you<
if you use your truck to power your home in a power failure, and you then run battery down in truck before power comes back on, that seems like an issue to me ??
I know you said you plan to keep a gas truck about, but what if others don;t have that luxury or foresight! ?

seems like it could lead to problems for folks that don;t think so far ahead! or?? HAHA!

and hey NO bash on E vehicles, we have to start somewhere with them
in order for them to get better!

I really don’t think many buy EVs to power their homes as said that’s not practical. No energy for vehicles or home seems like a bad decision.

 

[G]

Grub, hey question for you<
if you use your truck to power your home in a power failure, and you then run battery down in truck before power comes back on, that seems like an issue to me ??
I know you said you plan to keep a gas truck about, but what if others don;t have that luxury or foresight! ?

seems like it could lead to problems for folks that don;t think so far ahead! or?? HAHA!

and hey NO bash on E vehicles, we have to start somewhere with them
in order for them to get better!

The Lightning will only supply power to the house to a certain drawdown. Then it will automatically stop. At which point I would drive it to town to recharge it and then bring it back home and plug it back in to the house. The biggest reason my power company has taken such an interest in my situation is to find out exactly what real world life will be like. How does it compare to window sticker? We are going to find out. As of late the attention paid to viable range for the Lightning has exceeded the 300 advertised miles. Again, I am going to find out. And I will be driving the Lightning the exact same way I drive my present Lariat. In none of my posts do I declare myself 'Green oriented' And I am not. I am about as far away from a greenie as you can get. I am doing this because from what I have been led to believe I think it will work just fine for me 90 percent of the time. We will see. If the damn thing ever gets here. They have pushed it back to the end of July now.

 

[G]

I really don’t think many buy EVs to power their homes as said that’s not practical. No energy for vehicles or home seems like a bad decision.

This is just for power outages.

 

[G]

If you run out of battery in a Tesla it is your own stupid fault. The Tesla starts prompting you long before you are at risk. It pulls up available charging stations and GPS to get to them. I am assuming Ford will have a similar system.

 

[whitedust]

Grub are you locked in with your price on new Lightening?
I read an article of a new owner said his final price was north of $100k with extras. He liked the truck but will never take it camping again just no infrastructure to charge freaked him and wife out. Also said his whole family owned trucks none planned on converting ice to EV. In his opinion EV products and infrastructure many years in future to acceptance.

 

[G]

As far as power tools I am switching everything over to 18 volt Milwaukee stuff. A huge improvement over my old DeWalt stuff that I have basically worn out. More powerful and longer lasting.

 

[G]

After the federal tax credit the Lightning will be about $3000 more than a similarity equiped Lariat. Around the $80000 mark. You have to remember all pickups are going up. Except maybe for Dodge. Again, I will let everyone know when I actually get it and pay for it. I do know a maxed out Platinum Lightning is right up close to $100000. But so is a gasser.

 

[G]

Just now today North Dakota announced they are dedicating 25 million for EV charging stations. The want one every fifty miles minimum. It is coming together. If even North Dakota is getting with the program.

 

[katden4]

I really do hope it works out for you. As a full time vehicle for myself, not even close to thinking of one. 5 years from now maybe, but I don't paint the walls before the concrete and roof goes on, just saying. They are still very far off for it to work for me. I am very happy that people have made the choice for themselves about owning one. Without putting them on the streets to test, progress would never move forward.

 

[camphappyplace]

I recently read that charging an EV at home consumes as much electricity as an average house. So if you purchase an EV and charge it at home it‘s like two houses. If you and your spouse both have EVs you are now taxing the electrical infrastructure like 3 houses. If what I read is accurate (I don’t recall the source), our electrical infrastructure will require major beefing up before EVs are in every driveway.

 

[mezz]

I recently read that charging an EV at home consumes as much electricity as an average house. So if you purchase an EV and charge it at home it‘s like two houses. If you and your spouse both have EVs you are now taxing the electrical infrastructure like 3 houses. If what I read is accurate (I don’t recall the source), our electrical infrastructure will require major beefing up before EVs are in every driveway.

Not only the infrastructure, more importantly the cost of the electricity provided. Here in the UP our electric rates are the highest in the country. Who is going to want to double or triple their cost of electicity over & above what they already pay? Makes absolutely no sense to me. If your that worried about a long standing power outage, get a nat gas back-up generator, cost a hell of a lot less than a $100,000 EV.