MI Now Right To Work State!

russholio

Well-known member
How is that grasping at straws? I wasn't aware we were talking about firearms.

We weren't. It was an analogy.

It's obvious that you are anti-union, and that's okay. It's also obvious that your mind is dead set against them, all of them, and no matter what good there may be about them, you don't want to hear it or believe it. I guess that's okay, too. Everybody is entitled to his/her opinions. But really, with such closed mindedness, further discussion is pointless.
 

whitedust

Well-known member
We weren't. It was an analogy.

It's obvious that you are anti-union, and that's okay. It's also obvious that your mind is dead set against them, all of them, and no matter what good there may be about them, you don't want to hear it or believe it. I guess that's okay, too. Everybody is entitled to his/her opinions. But really, with such closed mindedness, further discussion is pointless.

Show the value of unions if you want to have people support a union seems simple enough to me.
 

mjkaliszak

New member
Unions = ruining americas mfg advantage!!! To have all of the wages and benies that those unions get and then still want MORE MORE MORE is insane!! mspease is spot on with the whole drinking and smoking lefties and getting jobs back with back pay. The union def helped those people get their job back!! Don't you see the problem with that?? Don't you see the problem with 4 people to do 1 persons job?? I worked at a union shop many years ago. I was told to slow down and quit working so hard. I was told that I didn't need to work that hard and I was making the other people look bad.... Then we played this game when a new forklift showed up if you were the first person to ram into the new forklift you drank for free that night. Me and another guy tag teamed this poor kid on his new forklift and got caught doing it. The union stuck up for us and we got to keep our high paying forklift jobs with not so much as a talking to.... I would have FIRED ME for that bs.... I just don't understand how people can think that the unions are so good for workers and for America..... Just the opposite.... Only crappy workers need the unions!!!!

Yea... try that crapola at my company and your gone, just like the You Tube of those ford guys hooking up a bucket car seat to a robot arm and giving rides.... I have never heard of such BS in a workplace. Or the high/low operator that makes 90K +... *** is that all about. I have no problem going to work and WORKING.... then being paid and supporting my family.
 

mjkaliszak

New member
Unions are making their own beds and have no one to blame for this "stereotyping" but themselves! Did anyone see how they behaved in Michigan the other day? Knocking down tents with women and kids inside, punching and shoving people. You may not have seen it as only Fox News shows it. Had that been a Tea Party member it would be on every station! Why always the yelling and shoving and punching? Man, those guys are angry people!

What are they trying to protect, their jobs ?
 

mjkaliszak

New member
Just not to be one sided... I'm not a fan of upper level corporate management. Talk about kick backs & bonus's.... some bonus's are more than my wife & I make combined.

I worked with a retired ford division manager. He was a real card ! Even though he was retired from ford, they still bought him a f-in Jaguar every 2 years. He had been pissed when they announced to him that they wont be paying for his Yacht mooring place ( dock space ) and insurance .... he somehow lost that benefit.... LOL
What the **** type of retirement package ( golden parachute ) did he get ?????
That is ALL wrong also.
So it goes both ways, and the average joe is wondering where all the jobs went.
 

russholio

Well-known member
Just not to be one sided... I'm not a fan of upper level corporate management. Talk about kick backs & bonus's.... some bonus's are more than my wife & I make combined.

I worked with a retired ford division manager. He was a real card ! Even though he was retired from ford, they still bought him a f-in Jaguar every 2 years. He had been pissed when they announced to him that they wont be paying for his Yacht mooring place ( dock space ) and insurance .... he somehow lost that benefit.... LOL
What the **** type of retirement package ( golden parachute ) did he get ?????
That is ALL wrong also.
So it goes both ways, and the average joe is wondering where all the jobs went.

Bravo.
 

russholio

Well-known member
What are they trying to protect, their jobs ?

I'm not sure what's wrong with wanting to protect one's job. After all, who -- whether union or not -- wants to lose their job? But obviously, the way these characters went about it IS NOT the RIGHT WAY to do it.
 

russholio

Well-known member
Show the value of unions if you want to have people support a union seems simple enough to me.

Not asking anybody to support them. Like I said before, I have no problem with somebody being against unions. I'm sure they have their reasons, and I respect that. I'm not arguing for or against RTW. Personally, I don't believe anybody should be forced to join a union if they don't want to -- but if they don't, then they should be on their own to negotiate their own compensation packages and to defend themselves against the potential whims of an employer. All I'm saying is, it's unfair to lump all unions in the same category based on the actions of those clowns in Lansing or based on the stuff that happened in the UAW that was referenced in prior posts. That's as silly as saying that all Muslims are bad because of the actions of a few extremists, or that all Mexicans are illegal immigrants because they're Mexican. Any group of people or organizations have their share of rotten apples.

I could tell stories about how the IAFF helps raise millions of dollars for Jerry's Kids, or how locals raise money for camps for burned kids, local kid's sports teams, athletic booster clubs, or numerous other charities. I could tell stories about how our local uses its own money (not the city's) to purchase smoke detectors to give away to people who don't have them (and in some cases will even install them). I could tell stories about how we took cuts and concessions to help the city financially, offered to pay the salary of a police officer until the next fiscal year so he wouldn't get laid off (city declined and somehow found the money), and worked to help them get millages passed-- all while they continue to waste money on such things as city vehicles and gas (that they use personal use as well as business use) for department heads. But I doubt it would do any good because some folks' minds are made up that we're just a bunch of greedy SOB's looking for "more, more, more".

Personally, I choose not to judge books by their covers but if other people want to, that's up to them.
 

sixball

New member
Just not to be one sided... I'm not a fan of upper level corporate management. Talk about kick backs & bonus's.... some bonus's are more than my wife & I make combined.

I worked with a retired ford division manager. He was a real card ! Even though he was retired from ford, they still bought him a f-in Jaguar every 2 years. He had been pissed when they announced to him that they wont be paying for his Yacht mooring place ( dock space ) and insurance .... he somehow lost that benefit.... LOL
What the **** type of retirement package ( golden parachute ) did he get ?????
That is ALL wrong also.
So it goes both ways, and the average joe is wondering where all the jobs went.

I am not calling you on this, as many people don't always tell you the truth. I will tell you he did not get a new car given to him every 2 years. He likely got a new Lease veh every 2 years. He may have used money from a package for a slip but Ford does not give its employees boat slips.
someone is blowing this way out of reality.
I am saying this as a retired Ford employee and I also have a very close family member who was very hi in the Co. Above division manager level.
 

mjkaliszak

New member
I am not calling you on this, as many people don't always tell you the truth. I will tell you he did not get a new car given to him every 2 years. He likely got a new Lease veh every 2 years. He may have used money from a package for a slip but Ford does not give its employees boat slips.
someone is blowing this way out of reality.
I am saying this as a retired Ford employee and I also have a very close family member who was very hi in the Co. Above division manager level.

Just repeating what came out of his mouth, never the less one should ask " why all the perks " when you retire . Wether or not it was the boat slip, or insurance payment ? or both was my understanding is kind of irrelevant. The person I spoke of ... was director of a division not just a manager at some division ! He was a hard core, not known to BS. In fact I hated to talk to him or get called to his office. I was not just whipping up a plethera of nonsense .... The point was the excess corporate perks ???? Additionally, I wanted to be fair , . My intentions were not to mislead anyone.
 

polarisrider1

New member
Just not to be one sided... I'm not a fan of upper level corporate management. Talk about kick backs & bonus's.... some bonus's are more than my wife & I make combined.

I worked with a retired ford division manager. He was a real card ! Even though he was retired from ford, they still bought him a f-in Jaguar every 2 years. He had been pissed when they announced to him that they wont be paying for his Yacht mooring place ( dock space ) and insurance .... he somehow lost that benefit.... LOL
What the **** type of retirement package ( golden parachute ) did he get ?????
That is ALL wrong also.
So it goes both ways, and the average joe is wondering where all the jobs went.

Some of those jobs went to build the Jaguar, build and maintain his yacht, pay the cleaning lady, etc. etc. trickle down economics at work????? Can't complain, I work for those "high rollers" so it has become a love/hate thing for me. (mostly love).
 

whitedust

Well-known member
Not asking anybody to support them. Like I said before, I have no problem with somebody being against unions. I'm sure they have their reasons, and I respect that. I'm not arguing for or against RTW. Personally, I don't believe anybody should be forced to join a union if they don't want to -- but if they don't, then they should be on their own to negotiate their own compensation packages and to defend themselves against the potential whims of an employer. All I'm saying is, it's unfair to lump all unions in the same category based on the actions of those clowns in Lansing or based on the stuff that happened in the UAW that was referenced in prior posts. That's as silly as saying that all Muslims are bad because of the actions of a few extremists, or that all Mexicans are illegal immigrants because they're Mexican. Any group of people or organizations have their share of rotten apples.

I could tell stories about how the IAFF helps raise millions of dollars for Jerry's Kids, or how locals raise money for camps for burned kids, local kid's sports teams, athletic booster clubs, or numerous other charities. I could tell stories about how our local uses its own money (not the city's) to purchase smoke detectors to give away to people who don't have them (and in some cases will even install them). I could tell stories about how we took cuts and concessions to help the city financially, offered to pay the salary of a police officer until the next fiscal year so he wouldn't get laid off (city declined and somehow found the money), and worked to help them get millages passed-- all while they continue to waste money on such things as city vehicles and gas (that they use personal use as well as business use) for department heads. But I doubt it would do any good because some folks' minds are made up that we're just a bunch of greedy SOB's looking for "more, more, more".

Personally, I choose not to judge books by their covers but if other people want to, that's up to them.

Seems to me you can do all the above without a union happens on this website all the time. I need to know how a union can do something for ones self the one can't do alone? You don't need the collective to help people who need help. Just throw some money in a hat or write a check happens all the time in non union companies.
 
D

Deleted member 10829

Guest
Personally, I don't believe anybody should be forced to join a union if they don't want to -- but if they don't, then they should be on their own to negotiate their own compensation packages and to defend themselves against the potential whims of an employer.

If unions would limit what they do to what you said above, I would support that. But they have become so much more than that, spending member's money on causes that they may or may not agree with. 95% of union political contributions go to one party, and I'm guessing that 95% of their members don't agree with that. Is that fair? All of the dues money should go to benefiting the workers, and nothing else.
 

russholio

Well-known member
If unions would limit what they do to what you said above, I would support that. But they have become so much more than that, spending member's money on causes that they may or may not agree with. 95% of union political contributions go to one party, and I'm guessing that 95% of their members don't agree with that. Is that fair? All of the dues money should go to benefiting the workers, and nothing else.

I agree. I didn't like that some of my money went to a political party that I don't support. But some of it also went to things that I do support. To me, the good outweighed the bad, but that's just my view and it's not the same for everybody. I agree that RTW gives each person the opportunity for himself/herself what is right for them.

Seems to me you can do all the above without a union happens on this website all the time. I need to know how a union can do something for ones self the one can't do alone? You don't need the collective to help people who need help. Just throw some money in a hat or write a check happens all the time in non union companies.

That's a fact. I never intended to imply otherwise. In fact, it was never my intent to argue for or against the pros/cons of unions in the workplace. My intent was simply to say that not all union people are thugs because of what happened in Lansing, nor are they all greedy, self-centered SOB's who are looking for "more, more, more". Nothing more, nothing less. Apparently, I did a poor job of conveying that. That being said, before I dig myself into a deeper hole, I'll just shut up about it.
 
D

Deleted member 10829

Guest
russholio,

I would say we can agree to disagree, but it was nice we could agree on something above! :)
 

sixball

New member
Just repeating what came out of his mouth, never the less one should ask " why all the perks " when you retire . Wether or not it was the boat slip, or insurance payment ? or both was my understanding is kind of irrelevant. The person I spoke of ... was director of a division not just a manager at some division ! He was a hard core, not known to BS. In fact I hated to talk to him or get called to his office. I was not just whipping up a plethera of nonsense .... The point was the excess corporate perks ???? Additionally, I wanted to be fair , . My intentions were not to mislead anyone.

Corporate perks!!! I don't see many talk about a singer who makes $$$$$$ for singing or playing songs. Why do sport people get the money they do? what about an actor?? Why do people pick a person who has spent much of there young life preparing for a career spend many times 80 hour weeks or more, oh without extra pay. Most are on a salary. That is a big reason they get what you call perks. This is what makes The USA a grate place to live. You can make the life you live or you can be happy with your life and go day to day.
Oh I am not one who got perks, but did very well just busted my butt.... I had to live in areas I would not pick as a first choice but beleaved the outcome was the end goal.
I get a kick out of people who think corporations are always greedy! I am sure some are but no as many as you think.
 

mjkaliszak

New member
Corporate perks!!! I don't see many talk about a singer who makes $$$$$$ for singing or playing songs. Why do sport people get the money they do? what about an actor?? Why do people pick a person who has spent much of there young life preparing for a career spend many times 80 hour weeks or more, oh without extra pay. Most are on a salary. That is a big reason they get what you call perks. This is what makes The USA a grate place to live. You can make the life you live or you can be happy with your life and go day to day.
Oh I am not one who got perks, but did very well just busted my butt.... I had to live in areas I would not pick as a first choice but beleaved the outcome was the end goal.
I get a kick out of people who think corporations are always greedy! I am sure some are but no as many as you think.

Seems your bothered by my post ???? I guess I'm leaving this thread. You will have to pick other posts to reply to. I'm neither pro union or pro corporate greed, Both are responsible for the auto industry mess.....
Please debate with someone else.
 
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