Michigan removing turn ahead signs
- Thread starter mjkaliszak
- Start date
Klein got bought by Trek in the 90s I believe. I think Bianchi and Miyata still make bikes, not sure about the others. Campagnolo isn't the go to anymore - both Shimano and SRAM have great options in up to 11 speed cassettes, but Campy does split the high-end segment up between all 3 companies and i've heard it's really good stuff.
I'm much more of a mountain biker though, don't even own a road bike. They've had a lot more advantages from newer tech than road biking. Tires have come a long way, wider and lower pressure is the go-to for mountain biking. Suspension forks, rear suspension designs, frame designs and much lighter & more reliable components. Hydraulic disc brakes have been game changers for me. I'll try not to de-rail this topic too much... I think there was a mountain biking thread in off-topic from this past summer.
I'm much more of a mountain biker though, don't even own a road bike. They've had a lot more advantages from newer tech than road biking. Tires have come a long way, wider and lower pressure is the go-to for mountain biking. Suspension forks, rear suspension designs, frame designs and much lighter & more reliable components. Hydraulic disc brakes have been game changers for me. I'll try not to de-rail this topic too much... I think there was a mountain biking thread in off-topic from this past summer.
XSSLEDDER, "If this wasn't done by a Professional Engineer then the explanation and logic is most likely flawed."
That's a hoot, I deal everyday with eng's and arch's trying to correct problems with their drawings and actually build a product. Even if they went through an engineer it would probably be a book smart kid with out the common sense or experience to lay it out correctly.
Before you think that I'm just bashing you as an engineer, I'm one too but that comment just sounded so condescending and conceited that I had to speak up.
LET IT SNOW!!!!
That's a hoot, I deal everyday with eng's and arch's trying to correct problems with their drawings and actually build a product. Even if they went through an engineer it would probably be a book smart kid with out the common sense or experience to lay it out correctly.
Before you think that I'm just bashing you as an engineer, I'm one too but that comment just sounded so condescending and conceited that I had to speak up.
LET IT SNOW!!!!
I've got to agree here on the "mentality" of people who ride on the trails. I hate to generalize cause we are all different in how we ride, but we do all tend to fit into two groups: hammer down or personal pace. No matter what is done, the super-hero, ricky racers of the world will not cease to blow through corners and set land speed records from bar to bar. Its been the same was for the last 3 decades I've ridden trails, and having been a Ricky Racer, I can spot them long off and know where to watch for them and how to avoid them. So I would rate my skill level as very high; however, the relative newcomers stand little to no chance in a bad situation on a trail based on experience or skill. I do firmly believe that signage is safer for just this reason, it makes both parties aware of a possible natural obstacle and allows each time to assess and decide how to handle it (raises awareness so they can hopefully focus on a safe corner). The signage is also very handy at night and I'd bad unhappy to see it go as there are blind corners or shadowed fade-away hills that corner markers help identify.
People are people too, I believe in a season or two after the signage change the same behaviors will return with or without signage, it's human nature. I'd rather ride semi-relaxed with a level of awareness offered by signage than be defensive at all times focused on every inch of the trail driving defensively, I think I might actually not enjoy riding as much. To em signage offers peace of mind, thats why I ride. To say that I ride fast based on signage is entirely false, I ride at my own personal pace. Simple fact is I don't know if my personal pace is the "right" or "safe" pace in other people's eyes, likely not at times as I may not know the trail's twist and turns, but thankfully the signage is there now to let me know I should slow for the corner and drive defensively. I guess nobody is argueing that corner markers tell you to speed up, but that could be just the effect for some riders who would have previously slowed...since now they may brake later or too late into and through a corner.
Also, be careful about stats from state to state on accidents. MN, WI, MI ridership is much higher than most all others so we will have more accidents, but when compared against number of registered sleds, the accidents/1000 riders may be lower than othe states. I don't know the numbers but I would hope that to be fair they are all based on the same metric state to state for there to be a valid comparison.
My last suggestion is they test their theory on a trail system first before going state-wide. Get feedback from riders and clubs and see if what the the DNR thinks worrks, will in fact work better or worse.
My only real issue with signage, and its been this way for 30 years and no matter where I seem to go, is too little of it. Too few mileage markers, directional signs to resorts/gas/towns. Why so few clubs put trail numbers on a tree at an intersection? I know its costly, but much of its one-time cost for many years of service on these signs... They would help people navigate to their destination much easier with more confidence. Just my $.02
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G
G
Guest
Snowmobile trails are not like highways or bike trails. Snowmobile trails are basically ONE lane passageways. So are most bike trails but bikes do not travel at 100 mph. How would you ever begin to 'engineer' signage for a lane where opposite travel at high rates of speed are commonplace? To me there would have to be 'Watch For Oncoming Traffic' signs every 1/4 mile to even begin to start addressing the whole signing thing if you were going to do it from an all bases covered engineering standpoint. Again, you could put up a million signs and people with no workable common sense will still have trouble. If existing signs are in place leave them alone. The general public will 'sign' the really dirty corners on their own with homemade signage. Signs that are really needed will be there. All the other stupid and useless signs will be gone. That is how it used to be before groomed trails and DNR and clubs. With the DNR came groomed trails but also regulations and BS. Sometimes I wonder if it was worth it.
bearrassler
Well-known member
I haven't ridden in the UP for years so I am not an expert on your trails and signage, but I am President of a snowmobile club that has state trails in two different states, ND and MN. Both states have some different rules on signage, but we do not use many curve signs. We don't have any hills so we don't use any hill signs but I don't think that I have ever seen one where there is some hills. I don't recall seeing many curve ahead signs in either state. When I ride I almost always lead, and I am watching the trail for curves, bumps, and the best lines to take, not looking up for curve signs. I have been riding for almost 50 years and have not wrecked a sled yet on the trails. If we had to have an engineer help sign or plan our trails I think we would loose many of them. Saying the State organizations or the DNR should pay just means they have to get more money out of us somehow.When we sign a few volunteers go out and if they think a sign is needed they put one up. We have to put up and take down most of our signs every year. I do think some signs are needed if the trail turns sharply but looks like it could go straight, and we could do a better job at junctions and mileage signs. The more complicated we make this the less volunteers we are going to have and the higher price we are going to have to pay for licenses and permits
So you've seen fellow sledders busted up and dying? Guess it really didn't matter if there was a sign there did it?
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I couldn't agree more! I traveled some trails in Canada that the dangerous corners and sudden down grades that end with a 90 degree turn at the bottom had no signs but there might be a hunk of Christmas tree garland or an orange hunting trail ribbon in the tree put there by the last group to go sailing into the bush.
We will watch out for each other regardless of what the state ends up doing..
polarisrider1
New member
Irons, Mi does not have it's arrows up to warn of up coming turns. They have the arrow in the turn. It is already being practiced in my riding area. This is new this year. also the stop ahead signs are gone.
Has this already happened in other areas?
Has this already happened in other areas?
xsledder
Active member
If you talking about a kid just out of school, they can't. You have to have four years of experience before you can sit for your PE license.
Whatever!!! Based on that statement I would guess you either haven't taken the PE, or you didn't pass it. I usually hear these type of comments for engineers that don't have their PE.
xsledder
Active member
Read my prior posts about expectations. And how are they one lane passageways? Most groomers are approximately 8' to 8'-6" wide while sleds can't be over 4' wide.
Yes I have !!!
Its not always on a marked trail, and after reading Polarisrider1's post about riding Monday. He noticed less signs from last year and more missed corners. Heck he almost missed a stop sign himself .
All my point was, is if the signs are coming down we need to get the word out.
So what MATTERS is they were there last year and now there not. That could mean more injuries !
polarisrider1
New member
Thank you!
xsledder
Active member
I would be interested in reading it.
(I actually chuckled at your comment.)