omg

[POLARISDAN]

the trespassing today was unbelievable...in this tiny area in Mass it was fkn insane..tracks all over tree lines..right UP to peoples back yards..worst ive ever seen..i couldnt believe it..face it..keep it UP..trails will disappear..

u want to ride OFF..learn it..earn it..quit fkn trail tresspassin..

 

[kip]

I saw that even out by me, it's getting out of hand. It's all private property along Simar-Wasas Road and it's tore to crap. Disappointing to see, no respect or care whatsoever. There's plenty of off trail riding to be had and it's not around town, along state highways, or worse people's private property. This for some reason is the year of the Ahole!!!!!!! To say I'm disappointed is a understatement and I don't have the words to go on. When the state and Yoopers decide to bite back it will not be good.

 

[harski]

It's a shame. My .02 on this yearly issue is somehow educating folks. Whether it be when the trail pass is issued or possibly businesses preaching this when hotel reservations are booked and/or signage in restaurants, gas stations, etc etc etc that cater to the snowmobilers. I know it's throwing a dart in the wind but as Kip stated, eventually the wrath will come down and the majority of the rest of us abiding riders will be p'd off cuz we're getting harassed and have lost trails.

Harski

 

[snobuilder]

When I get on websites and hear and see how much fun the off trail riders have, make me want to go off trail.
But couldn't figure out how you guys know what is public vs private land. Most private land isn't posted.
So I stay on trail.

 

[kip]

Agree snobuilder, sometimes it can be tough but with GPS and a platbook riders can figure just about anything out. Out in the country behind Mass City is all private property and our trails have easements through there. If those private landowners in that area get ticked off you can forget about trail 12 going through Rousseau down to Sidnaw and there are other trails that have the same scenario. Tons of paper company land and state land to ride on, no need for it. Locals do not like to post their land because they want to welcome people such as myself. If you see posted land here it's about 100% sure that they're not a Native Yooper. It's simple, if you want to ride near somebody's home then ask first. If a field is pristine and untouched it's most likely private property so don't go there. There's fun to be had for everyone so please use your melon and respect others.

 

[gary_in_neenah]

WARNING: Member Venting Straight Ahead

Unfortunately, this subject comes up every year.

"couldn't figure out how you guys know what is public vs private land."

In many cases they don't. They're having fun, keeping up with the group, unfamiliar with the area, the list of reasons why this happens is a long one. Trespassing is one thing and that's going to happen on occasion. What troubles me is when young trees, signage and property are damaged. It may be unintentional but nevertheless the damage is done.

I used to ride with a group of guys that I worked with, a good bunch. Button down-straight laced guys up until you put them on a snowmobile and then the adrenaline rush set in and all common sense went out the window.

As snowmobilers, we're responsible for our actions and behavior. Some of us don't know this and I guess others simply don't care.

OK, my rant is over. Back to our regular programming.

 

[POLARISDAN]

When I get on websites and hear and see how much fun the off trail riders have, make me want to go off trail.
But couldn't figure out how you guys know what is public vs private land. Most private land isn't posted.
So I stay on trail.

my god..a lucid thought!!! who took snobuilders keyboard

 

[POLARISDAN]

Agree snobuilder, sometimes it can be tough but with GPS and a platbook riders can figure just about anything out. Out in the country behind Mass City is all private property and our trails have easements through there. If those private landowners in that area get ticked off you can forget about trail 12 going through Rousseau down to Sidnaw and there are other trails that have the same scenario. Tons of paper company land and state land to ride on, no need for it. Locals do not like to post their land because they want to welcome people such as myself. If you see posted land here it's about 100% sure that they're not a Native Yooper. It's simple, if you want to ride near somebody's home then ask first. If a field is pristine and untouched it's most likely private property so don't go there. There's fun to be had for everyone so please use your melon and respect others.

yea kip..obviously u know where i ride and thats the bingo area..unbelievable through the meadows yesterday..i am not talking 10-15 yards outside of the signs which im sure we all do, im talking beeline from the trail all the way into the meadows, right to the treeline, and around past the fence line, back to the trail. the worst one was at the first left turn on 12, a no snowmo sign staring you str8 in the face, been there for years..sure as h e l l right UP over the bank, out the end end of the meadow, big wide spin back to the trail..un***blvble

as gary said, i dont understand what goes through somebodys mind when they are staring at a sign that says DONT, and yet they think it doesnt apply to them ????????

 

[skibob]

OK, just a quick question;

Is the trespassing a ticketable offense?

If so, it seems like local law enforcement could make a killing setting up a "sting" & nailing people riding illegally off trail!

Maybe if a few of these idiots got popped with a hefty fine, word would spread. They seem to travel in packs.

I'm sure manpower would be an issue though....just a thought.
Seems like you could coordinate with volunteers to take shifts watching known trespassing areas & calling in to local LEO's who are already out working.

Bob

 

[whitedust]

Trespassing is a problem everywhere. Riders who take off thru a corn field off the marked trail are trespassing. These people just don't give a rat's butt! I have no idea what to do about it and know we will lose trails due to trespassing. I'm not sure LEOs want to deal with trespassing other higher priorities but if you do get busted I think you need to go to court as well. So fine, court costs ,lost work time may make impression. IDK for sure?

 

[ffemt]

I was up mid week 2 weeks ago I'm a trail ride we covered 400. Miles Wednesday n Thursday, trails were as wide as the the trail those two days Friday comes along and boom trials are 40 yards wider when terrain permits unbelievable no respect or accountability for there actions or never taught

 

[mrbb]

trespassing is a huge problem in my home state of PA< and not just on snowmobile trails, But on snowmobile trails here, its the main reason we loose so many every yr
the problem , IMO tends to come from folks that just don't have respect for others property period,
they live by the only thing they care about is "ME", and honestly I swear in my state its handed down from generation to generation, as parents take there kids out and do the trespassing and before long, they don't even think its wrong!

Fines here are a JOKE if you can even get them arrested for it, the laws are stupid dumb here in PA< making it almost the fault of the land owner for not having told everyone in person, as legally that is pretty much teh only way we can get them on a charge, is if we can PROVE they knew they were trespassing, signs don't cut it here, I have just under a 1,000 signs every 15-20 ft around my property, and get 25-30 plus folks a yr tresspassing, and they all say OPP"S didn't know and not much I can do, cannot even get cops to show up most times!

and that also is why so many trespass, as they know odds of getting caught and fined are LOW

we need stiffer fines, if trespassing on a motorized vehicle, a 30 day or more driver lic suspension would be a nice deal in my eye's
and if caught on foot, a 1,000+ dollar fine on FIRST offence would also deter more I think
in today's world we need to hit folks where it hurts, and that is there wallet (don't forget, a 500 dollar fine back in the 80's and same fine now, doesn't effect folks the same way)or lively hood, no way to drive to work would put a dent in many's plans!
as folks today don't get ashamed as much, so they don't seem to care about there reputation as once did? so just being know to be a law breaker, doesn't seem to effect folks the same as it once did!, heck I would bet many of these trespassers on sleds have GO pro cam's running and pretty proud of there riding skills while doing so<?
a shame to me, but, I play by the rules, so what do I know?

My 2 cents!

 

[G]

Unfortunately snowmobiles leave tracks. If one goes where it is not supposed to others will follow. Monkey see monkey do. Around here the locals know where they can't go. I'm sure it is the same there. Your problem comes from out of the area tourists which you have a lot of. Then you locals have to live with the fallout. It just plain sucks. If you catch them and fine them it might help. But I am sure your law enforcement is stretched as it is. How about if you hang a dummy wearing a snowmobile suit by the neck on a tree next to a meadow that looks ripe for ripping up. Put a sign next to it that says 'Trespassers will be executed'. Try that.

 

[sweeperguy]

I'm not endorsing trespassing,

I think one thing that would help the trespassing situation. Would be to have known, marked with signs, areas that non locals can find and use to get their off trail fix. I think if areas were avaiable, with information available so riders could find the legal areas to ride, would help alot.
People who live in metro areas, don't realize that just because you can't see a house, or there is not a fence around an open area. That it may still be privately owned land.
If it was easier for non locals to use off trail public land, they may not have the need to go off onto private land.
Don't know how to stop Aho...'s that leave the trail in close proximity to a "stay on trail sign". But if the trails were marked in such a way that a rider knew they were in a trail easment area. (Sign stating private land next X amount of miles), or different colored trail blazers on public off trail access areas. Or signed now entering state forest land, and exiting state forest land, could go a long way towards helping the trespassing situation.
It could also be incorporated into the snowmobile maps where there are large tracts of off trail legal areas. Could not put every narrow corridor and aresa that are smaller than 40ish acres. But the large areas could be outlined on snowmobile maps so the riders know where it is legal to go.
People hear that off trail is legal in areas of the UP. But NO ONE IS WILLING TO TELL THEM WHERE THEY CAN LEGALLY DO IT. If it was easier for non locals to do IT legally I'd be willing to bet most would go to legally designated areas.
I hear get a plat map and GPS to find legal areas but my point is it could be so much simpler and easy for the lazy to find off trail and NOT trespass.
I would think that the locals would be even willing to give up directions to off trail areas that are well known by LOTS of riders. I'm not saying give up their TOP SECRET favorite areas to ride. But if asked, tell guys where areas are that are going to get tracked up anyways because they are so well known. But that is not the case, locals won't even "throw out a bone" to a out of towner that is there to spend money at local establishments, and enjoy themselves a couple times a year. The out of area riders have a huge economic impact (positive) to the area. If trails start getting closed. And only small local loops remain, people won't continue to visit the area.

 

[mrbb]

sweeperguy, I agree and disagree with you on this
and I say this as a land owner
the way life is, in the real world, if you DON"T own it, and DON"T Know you can ride or be there, you honestly are 100% at fault
NOTHING in life is easy, you have to work to have things, and then when you OWN something and others think its free for them to use at will, it can get very annoying and costly real fast

I say this, again with seeing both side s of things
IF more info was available about where you can PLAY and not be on trail, that would be a big help to a lot of folks

BUT at same, time, YOU should always be responsible for your actions, if you DON"T know where you can or cannot ride,
then you should NOT be just HOPING your right
two wrongs never make a right!

I catch guys(gals too) all the time trespassing and they are 90% of the time very aggressive and confrontational when I approach them, as if its MY fault there on MY property
as all there doing is enjoying what ever and I'm the bad guy, cause Its my land and I don't want them on it??

Many land owners allow trails to go thru there lands being NICE, yet at same time many maybe don't want to go BIG with saying its OK to play in my fields, yet they are open
as if you follow, MOST times the more that play, the higher the odds , a few bad apples will be in the field and leave a mess behind, or over step there welcome ??

so, the way I see it, honestly, play area's should be state/federal lands that ALL should know where they are, and any private lands, it should be up to the owner how well he wants to advertise there open to play or not

simple rule, DON"T know for 100%, DON"T ride
its really simple honestly!
NOT following this rule, we all loose, as its what makes land and trails get closed!

 

[Ricardo]

One cure for the idiots would be for all trails to become completely fenced corridors with no openings. I understand this sounds extreme and it would be impossible to do due to cost and labor required but it would be something anyone could understand. The whole situation is a sad testimonial on how little respect our "civilized" society has for our fellow man and their property.

 

[sweeperguy]

sweeperguy, I agree and disagree with you on this
and I say this as a land owner
the way life is, in the real world, if you DON"T own it, and DON"T Know you can ride or be there, you honestly are 100% at fault
NOTHING in life is easy, you have to work to have things, and then when you OWN something and others think its free for them to use at will, it can get very annoying and costly real fast

I say this, again with seeing both side s of things
IF more info was available about where you can PLAY and not be on trail, that would be a big help to a lot of folks

BUT at same, time, YOU should always be responsible for your actions, if you DON"T know where you can or cannot ride,
then you should NOT be just HOPING your right
two wrongs never make a right!

I catch guys(gals too) all the time trespassing and they are 90% of the time very aggressive and confrontational when I approach them, as if its MY fault there on MY property
as all there doing is enjoying what ever and I'm the bad guy, cause Its my land and I don't want them on it??

Many land owners allow trails to go thru there lands being NICE, yet at same time many maybe don't want to go BIG with saying its OK to play in my fields, yet they are open
as if you follow, MOST times the more that play, the higher the odds , a few bad apples will be in the field and leave a mess behind, or over step there welcome ??

so, the way I see it, honestly, play area's should be state/federal lands that ALL should know where they are, and any private lands, it should be up to the owner how well he wants to advertise there open to play or not

simple rule, DON"T know for 100%, DON"T ride
its really simple honestly!
NOT following this rule, we all loose, as its what makes land and trails get closed!

I didn't see your earlier post about having your property very well signed. (Must have been typing my post)
But you are missing my point. Make it easier for people to find the legal areas, there would be less problems. (And I understand NOTHING in life is easy, I work my A$$ off to have what I do. With no lucky breaks or nothing given to me.)
As I posted I don't have a clue how to stop people who go off trail, when it is obviously posted.
And I do agree "if you don't know don't go". What I'm saying is help make it common knowledge where it's okay, especially in a region that is known to be an off trail acceptable area.
I don't know what the common knowledge of the area is where you are at, but I would expect it to be that there is way more private land than public access lands. In which case, people need to be vigilant in their own knowledge of where they go off trail. As I have done.
The common knowledge of the UP is there is a LOT of off trail area to be used (respectively).
Maybe even having avaiable specialized maps (at a premium cost) as versus off trail areas on snowmobile maps.
Personally if I wasn't able to off trail in the UP. I wouldn't go. Lots of trails in MN, and WI, I can ride if I want to trail ride.
I KNOW FOR A FACT, the dollars I spend in the UP positively impacts the economy there. If you want to keep the dollars coming in, make it a little easier to keep the people doing the right thing.
In my earlier post I touched on the subject of locals hoarding the off trail spots. Several years ago, hired guides. It was great, they told us and emphasized, that this was all private land. That they had interest in, and permission to ride on. Couple of years later found out it was almost all public, no restriction areas. We also verified this in following up contacting the areas Forestry Service Office.

 

[snowchief]

see this all the time sleds going around stay on trail signs to go and play, plus putting in our trail system down here we have had to move the whole trail plenty of times due to people running over trees and trespassing sucks, usually the guys doing this have no idea the time or effort put in to get these trails, as a landowner I don't think I would ever say it was OK to go off trail on your land just for the fact of being responsible if someone gets hurt now days no accountability, in the black Hills there map is colored and it shows green for OK to rife and white for private property I just assume white means stay out even if the gates open and looks great for playing it's not mine, I know a group of guys that go to UP every year they think they can go wherever they want I won't listen to there story's makes Mr angry because of guys like them sooner or later there won't be trails to ride and they don't care none of them belong to a club or put time in to help

 

[1fujifilm]

the trespassing today was unbelievable...in this tiny area in Mass it was fkn insane..tracks all over tree lines..right UP to peoples back yards..worst ive ever seen..i couldnt believe it..face it..keep it UP..trails will disappear..

u want to ride OFF..learn it..earn it..quit fkn trail tresspassin..

What's up Dan, how you doin.

Ok, I will say it; boondocker, mohawk and can.

Bear

 

[snobuilder]

Lots of paragraphs....in the end .... come sand riding season for tracker in May ...most all evidence is gone and bein replaced with wildflowers, bugs and new greenery.
Lighten up ....you don't own chit...you rent everything...tax man owns it.