The employees "have to enter it." And before you type out "oh well, then the employees can just quit and go elsewhere" remember that this is the USA and we do not have slave labor and people making 35cents an hour making shoes. Safety in the workplace is a prime directive of the unions and government in America, and exposing employees to known toxins is something that must be resolved.
Smoking Ban?? Update??
- Thread starter bryan t
- Start date
The employees "have to enter it." And before you type out "oh well, then the employees can just quit and go elsewhere" remember that this is the USA and we do not have slave labor and people making 35cents an hour making shoes. Safety in the workplace is a prime directive of the unions and government in America, and exposing employees to known toxins is something that must be resolved.
Nash...Nash...waiting for Nash...
yamahauler
Active member
1-snow...: Interesting you mention that you have smoked that long and no issue. My father had a quintuple bypass at 53 and 90% due to smoking and 10% diet. One thing that was interesting as I had a list of questions for the doc. I tossed this one out and asked, can people smoke til the day they die and never have a health problem. He actually told me well sorta. There are some cases out there where peoples bodies can handle it but it is rare. MOST people that smoke will die from it.
Someone mentioned about a smoke shop opening next door to the bar and that people go over there to smoke. Ya know something, you may just opened a door for a bar. How about bar owners either add-on a smoke shop to the bar. Run it as a separate business with a door right into the bar. Just have good venting in there so the rest of us non smokers don't have to deal with it in the bar and problem solved. You get to make money of the cigs now as well.
Someone mentioned about a smoke shop opening next door to the bar and that people go over there to smoke. Ya know something, you may just opened a door for a bar. How about bar owners either add-on a smoke shop to the bar. Run it as a separate business with a door right into the bar. Just have good venting in there so the rest of us non smokers don't have to deal with it in the bar and problem solved. You get to make money of the cigs now as well.
mrsrunningbear
Active member
all I have to say is WOW, WOW, WOW!!
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lenny
Guest
forcing a bar to create a room for smoking not practical, maybe a few bars yes but most utilize the space for it's intended use. many would need to add on and that would be more devastating to the bottom dollar. Sending the guy to smoke outside was and is still the best response
Firecatguy, you said this-
don't smoke (anymore) and think its a sick habit!!!I just get a little worried about our freedoms that we loose everyday and no I don't think its someones freedom to smoke in anyone's face!!!-
You indicate you are a little worried and that says a lot. Things like this are fueled by fear. Take it for what it is at face value. Right now we have an even playing field. No one is singled out and has to go away, unless the smoker cries about having to step outside and not offend anyone. Both the smoker and non-smoker are welcome. My neighbor Ray smokes a ton, he has not stopped hitting Beer Belly Bob's place in the slightest, neither has my buddy Dean. They simple go outside and I commend them for rising up and not crying. The fear you experience is justified but slightly misguided, I understand this and often examine these situations and rethink them.
This has been a great thread. The last thing we need to do is allow our differing opinions to divide us. You guys bring important understanding to the table. Were not going to get anywhere without understanding.
Firecatguy, you said this-
don't smoke (anymore) and think its a sick habit!!!I just get a little worried about our freedoms that we loose everyday and no I don't think its someones freedom to smoke in anyone's face!!!-
You indicate you are a little worried and that says a lot. Things like this are fueled by fear. Take it for what it is at face value. Right now we have an even playing field. No one is singled out and has to go away, unless the smoker cries about having to step outside and not offend anyone. Both the smoker and non-smoker are welcome. My neighbor Ray smokes a ton, he has not stopped hitting Beer Belly Bob's place in the slightest, neither has my buddy Dean. They simple go outside and I commend them for rising up and not crying. The fear you experience is justified but slightly misguided, I understand this and often examine these situations and rethink them.
This has been a great thread. The last thing we need to do is allow our differing opinions to divide us. You guys bring important understanding to the table. Were not going to get anywhere without understanding.
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lenny
Guest
seems to me the important part here is if this is a continual, gaining momentum, deliberate plan of gov to control people. I think not
Am I wrong in assuming this is what the opposition maintains?
Am I wrong in assuming this is what the opposition maintains?
It's simple..
Smokers feel they have a right to blow the fumes wherever they feel and it's everyone's elses problem if they don't stay out of the way.
Yet if I walked up to them and let a white castle ripper in their face I'd probably get punched in the face.
It's not the smokers fault this law has become needed, the non-smokers should have started punching them in the face a long time ago.
Smokers feel they have a right to blow the fumes wherever they feel and it's everyone's elses problem if they don't stay out of the way.
Yet if I walked up to them and let a white castle ripper in their face I'd probably get punched in the face.
It's not the smokers fault this law has become needed, the non-smokers should have started punching them in the face a long time ago.
Last time I checked, slave labor means that somebody MAKES you work, for free. Nobody is telling employees in a smoking establishment (if it were to exist) that they HAVE to work there, for free. If they choose to do so, of their own free will and for pay, they should do so with the understanding that there are risks associated with it (just like there are risks associated with many jobs, including mine).
snowdancer
New member
I do not understand why we do not allow a percentage of bars and restaurants in each county to allow smoking. They could give out smoking permits like they give out liquor licenses. Seems like this might keep everyone on a more even keel. Just my 2 cents worth.
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fusion
Guest
Point well spoken and understood on this end. They will incrementalize us until this becomes a socialist state where government decides and determines everything we do.
I've said my share on this, but I was born in a different time and the world has changed and continues to change. Apparently the freedoms I understood as a youngster no longer will apply at some point. We can either elect those that will hear our anti-socialist pleas's or we can sucuumb to the whims of the masses. No biggee right now for me because I don't smoke, but at some point they will take away something that affects my livelihood and then I'll wish I stood up for the businesses that should have the right to choose how they conduct it.
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fusion
Guest
Thunderstuck - your dad was Phil Harris? I did not read each post in the thread.
If so, I am sorry for your loss and I have great respect for what you guys do for a living. I always put myself in the postion and ask if I could do that myself. I've always thought MAYBE I could work on a crab boat, but I'd never be able to do it without getting seasick, so count me out. I can't even go on Lake Michigan fishing anymore without popping a bunch of seasickness pills and then I fall asleep.
yamahauler
Active member
lenny: as far as adding on. Nobody would force it, I just seen it as an investment. If business profits are down that far like some say, then you need to adjust.
I knew you would go there, but with all due respect, your logic is backward. In the US we value safety of the worker, and while we understand that different jobs have different risk factors we strive, through government policy, to minimize those risks. Why? Because for decades the unions have fought hard battles to ensure worker safety.
You cannot just dismiss worker safety by saying "if you don't like it, quit". While some jobs are inherently more dangerous than others one should expect that employers and the government will try to remove these safety hazards.
If you work in a loud factory you get ear protection.
A construction zone requires hard hats
Machinery requires guards and interlocks.
You can't just dismiss workplace hazards with "oh, just quit." For crissakes, America would be populated with unemployed workers missing half their fingers.
No, workplace safety is important. Smokers emit a known carcinogen into the air in enclosed spaces that is dangerous to those that work there.
They are not considerate enough to step outside on their own, so now the government had to tell them to step outside.
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fusion
Guest
I wanted to add one more piece to this topic - real conversation with a bar owner in northern WI. We were up all last week and stopped at a place that does rather large business up in the sticks. This is how inconsistent this will be....the owner was told by the local sheriff they will not be actively, agressively enforcing the law. BUT - if a patron complains they will be forced to investigate. 1st time will be a warning, 2nd time will be a fine for both the bar and offending party. Person behind the bar already got into it with some customer when she was using one of those electronic cigarettes that puff vapor - the person thought it was a real cigarette and got all bent out of shape. Funny. Threatened to call the cops and made a scene.
So long story short, how selectively are they going to enforce this from county to county?
I wonder about that one. And if someone does smoke in a bar or gets too close to a doorway and is accused falsely, do we end up with a sorts of legal action to determine guild or innocence? The lawyers will get rich for sure. And once again the incongruity between the Indian Casinos and their alchohol serving establishments and everyone else sure doesn't do anything to make things equal.
I also heard there was a crowded joint in Rhinelander on the 4th of July, where at midnite the cops came in and started writing tickets to the bar and smoking patrons at 12:01. Now thats insane. This whole business is out of control in my opinion.
So long story short, how selectively are they going to enforce this from county to county?
I wonder about that one. And if someone does smoke in a bar or gets too close to a doorway and is accused falsely, do we end up with a sorts of legal action to determine guild or innocence? The lawyers will get rich for sure. And once again the incongruity between the Indian Casinos and their alchohol serving establishments and everyone else sure doesn't do anything to make things equal.
I also heard there was a crowded joint in Rhinelander on the 4th of July, where at midnite the cops came in and started writing tickets to the bar and smoking patrons at 12:01. Now thats insane. This whole business is out of control in my opinion.
Ya know, I just don't buy into this "the socialist sky is falling" rant. America, through its political system, is a ship that stays relatively upright, and has done so for 234 years. The move to the left that has occurred is a reaction to the Bush move to the right, which was a reaction to the Clinton move to the left, driven by the Bush 1 move to the right, on top of the Reagan move to the right, caused by the Carter move to the left, driven by the Ford/Nixon move to the right, driven by the Johnson/Kennedy move to the left...do I need to continue?
You will see a move back to the right in the midterm elections in 2010 just like you did in 1994 midterm elections.
And so it goes..left...right...left...right, and we still have the best country in the history of the world.
Funny, despite the "impending doom that is crashing upon our doorsteps", the ship always seems to stay upright.
I bet the thread gets pulled now!