Smoking Ban?? Update??

[Firecatguy]

This is a great thread...many points are made and seeing the views of others makes one think......

Im just one for our Liberties and freedoms...and its scary what is going on today in big Government!!!!

JUST CLINGING TO MY GUNS I GUESS......lol

 

[cat_man_mike]

What about the liberies and freedoms of the other people there. If you are all about liberties and freedoms, oh wait, you are just conserned about YOUR liberties and freedoms. Now I get it. What about the other guy's LIFE, liberty, and his pursuit of happiness. Nobody is saying you can't go to the places of buisness. Nobody is saying that the owners have to turn the smokers away. They are more than welcome. Nobody is even saying that they can't smoke while they are there. They are saying that they have to walk the whole 15 feet to the door and have your smoke. Don't even use the "It's cold outside" excuse on a snowmobiling forum either. It is starting to become clear now. People don't want to walk all the way over to the door to smoke, so they make up this "the government is trying to control us, man" (In my best fillmore, from the movie Cars, voice) conspiracy to try and sway public opinion to get the law reversed. Unfortunately this law MAKES SENSE to anyone with an outside view if it. For what is, I hope, the last time.... Nobody says smokers are not welcome, nobody is saying that owners have to turn smokers away. Nobody is trying to control who can go where and do what. All they are saying is you have to get up out of your chair, walk a whole 15 feet to the door, and have your smoke, then walk the entire 15 feet back to your chair (a lot of work, isn't it?) and sit back down. This simple act of walking a whole 30 feet WILL SAVE LIVES!!!!!!!! If walking 30 feet is too much action for you to benifit your fellow man, maybe you should not be mingling with society anyway.

 

[cat_man_mike]

Let's try this on one more angle. I will post this seperate from my previous post incase it offends someone and the mods need to delete it, my previous point will remain. Sex is legal, right? So why is it that if I take my wife out to a romantic dinner and the mood catches us right, that we can't do it right there in the dining room? What if the owner thinks my wife is hot (which she is, love you hunny!) and has no problem with us going at it? We are not phisicaly harming anyone there. We are doing something that is perfectly legal in the privacy of our own home. We are doing something that the owner of the establishment in perfectly fine with. But who of you out there would be on the phone with the cops instantly???? (be honest with yourselves here people)

 

[xcr440]

Let's try this on one more angle. I will post this seperate from my previous post incase it offends someone and the mods need to delete it, my previous point will remain. Sex is legal, right? So why is it that if I take my wife out to a romantic dinner and the mood catches us right, that we can't do it right there in the dining room? What if the owner thinks my wife is hot (which she is, love you hunny!) and has no problem with us going at it? We are not phisicaly harming anyone there. We are doing something that is perfectly legal in the privacy of our own home. We are doing something that the owner of the establishment in perfectly fine with. But who of you out there would be on the phone with the cops instantly???? (be honest with yourselves here people)

Good one! How about the guy that has the (In his opinion!) best smelling GAS, and goes out to establishments, cracking one off just because he feels like it! I'm sure it happens, but 99% of people have the tact to resist the temptation of sharing that with everyone else, because it is considered RUDE. Well guess what, I (And many others) consider your smoking in my air space RUDE as well.

I know that is not illegal, but most people are courteous enough to take it outside (Or to the bathroom!), just like you have to do to smoke now.

 

[thunderstruck88]

Id be calling the cops asap cause what you and your wife do better not affect me and ANY KIDS that are present. also you would be breaking the law any how indecient exposure is NOT LEGAL in any state in this coutry Keep that in the privacy of you own home or if the bar tender would allow this in his bar he would risk loosing his Liquior permit State agents do do suprise visits to bars and they do it more and more also if you and her had STD or HIV I would want everything in that bar SANITIZED KEEP your smoke to yourself and your sex in your house and quit evading MY SPACE to

 

[Firecatguy]

Id be calling the cops asap cause what you and your wife do better not affect me and ANY KIDS that are present. also you would be breaking the law any how indecient exposure is NOT LEGAL in any state in this coutry Keep that in the privacy of you own home or if the bar tender would allow this in his bar he would risk loosing his Liquior permit State agents do do suprise visits to bars and they do it more and more also if you and her had STD or HIV I would want everything in that bar SANITIZED KEEP your smoke to yourself and your sex in your house and quit evading MY SPACE to

um they do have sex clubs...and yes for some reason you and your children are not allowed inside.....HMMMM imagine that a place were people can be free and live how they choose....hope that wasn't a big secret to you all...hate for you all to start telling another group of property owners how to do business.....

 

[Firecatguy]

Good one! How about the guy that has the (In his opinion!) best smelling GAS, and goes out to establishments, cracking one off just because he feels like it! I'm sure it happens, but 99% of people have the tact to resist the temptation of sharing that with everyone else, because it is considered RUDE. Well guess what, I (And many others) consider your smoking in my air space RUDE as well.

I know that is not illegal, but most people are courteous enough to take it outside (Or to the bathroom!), just like you have to do to smoke now.

and if i ever here of a fart club I will forsure call you first......

 

[lenny]

firecatguy, I think you missed the point,,,,,,,again. His point was about being respectful in public. Yea, there are places to do as you want and for a reason. There is a place to smoke and that is outside. your defense is the same position lawmakers saw as unreasonable.

RESPECT!!!!!!!!!! is the basis of a stable society. Tonight I took the family down to Onto for ice cream and than to the beach to watch the sun set. We had a nice time. My daughter was playing in the sand and collected some stuff,,,,NICE,,,,,,the world is a smokers ashtray. We sat there on a beautiful sandy beach with very minimal trash, actually none other than these butts and one plastic bag by a garbage can. I counted 16 butts within 10 ft of the log we were sitting by. My point: The majority of smokers have no concern for where and when they smoke. They see their butts as small and no problem but their wrong. The next law should be to fine every person seen throwing the butts out the window, strictly and any garbage for that matter. I'm on no quest to save the planet, not even close but a little respect goes a long way

 

[lenny]

by the way, we collected the butts and threw them away so the next people didn't have to be disgusted as we were, mainly myself.

 

[lenny]

a few nice shots

 

[cat_man_mike]

um they do have sex clubs...and yes for some reason you and your children are not allowed inside.....HMMMM imagine that a place were people can be free and live how they choose....hope that wasn't a big secret to you all...hate for you all to start telling another group of property owners how to do business.....

KINDA LIKE A SMOKING CLUB! Thank you for proving my point, that was mighty nice of you. If you are dead set to have a place where people can smoke, start one of those. See, some types of behavior are unacceptable (public sex/CANCER CAUSING second hand smoke) to the general public and should be done only in the presence of those who find that behavior acceptable.

 

[cat_man_mike]

[/QUOTE]WHAT I DID SAY IS ........ITS MY F-ING CLUB AND IF I DONT WANT YOU OR YOUR LAME AZZ ATTITUDE YOU CAN GET THE F OUT!!!!!!THAT WOULD BE MY RIGHT AS A PROPERTY OWNER!!!!!!!!!!you don't get it...and from your attitude!! your not about too.....[/QUOTE]


You do not have a right as a property owner to do anything you want. There are laws in this country for a reason. This is a democracy, not an anarchy! You can not shoot every 3rd person to walk through your door (which is kinda what you are doing with the second hand smoke) just because "It is my club and I can do whatever I want" There is a law against that. If you want to live in anarchy I sugest you go start a club in a 3rd world country, or some crumbling eastern european country. Unfortunately, some people think "Home of the free and land of the brave" Translates to " I can do whatever the h*** I want with no reguard to my neighbor and with no consequences."

 

[thunderstruck88]

Also BUTTS if thrown out anywhere that is NOT put all the way out can start a wild fire People who smoke should be more responsible in there actions of dispossing of there butts in proper places and make sure it's out and if they find out your caused that fire your in TROUBLE BIG time and have to pay for every thing you have burned and also if some one gets killed cause of your STUPIDITY you may find yourself in jail

 

[Firecatguy]

firecatguy, I think you missed the point,,,,,,,again. His point was about being respectful in public. Yea, there are places to do as you want and for a reason. There is a place to smoke and that is outside. your defense is the same position lawmakers saw as unreasonable.

RESPECT!!!!!!!!!! is the basis of a stable society. Tonight I took the family down to Onto for ice cream and than to the beach to watch the sun set. We had a nice time. My daughter was playing in the sand and collected some stuff,,,,NICE,,,,,,the world is a smokers ashtray. We sat there on a beautiful sandy beach with very minimal trash, actually none other than these butts and one plastic bag by a garbage can. I counted 16 butts within 10 ft of the log we were sitting by. My point: The majority of smokers have no concern for where and when they smoke. They see their butts as small and no problem but their wrong. The next law should be to fine every person seen throwing the butts out the window, strictly and any garbage for that matter. I'm on no quest to save the planet, not even close but a little respect goes a long way

well then maybe we should started a thread about how the government can regulate respect.....cuz this is about smoking in public and private buildings...and i think smoking in a government building should be a no no.......

I dont think people littering at the beach has anything to do with smoking in publi\private BUILDINGS......I pick up garbage at the beach all the time...beer cans...pop cans and various trash...you get the point......

also Lenny it is alaw that littering in a fine...up to 1500 here in MN..

you go get em guys....littering,smoking,trash at beach you all should run for Governor and tax the chit out of the fine people of your state for breathing.....wait i missed fire,bad food,farting

and this is the last I will be posting on this thread as you guys try and talk about every issue but the one at hand....kinda like The Obama administration...smoke and mirrors

 

[cat_man_mike]

well then maybe we should started a thread about how the government can regulate respect.....cuz this is about smoking in public and private buildings...and i think smoking in a government building should be a no no.......

I dont think people littering at the beach has anything to do with smoking in publi\private BUILDINGS......I pick up garbage at the beach all the time...beer cans...pop cans and various trash...you get the point......

also Lenny it is alaw that littering in a fine...up to 1500 here in MN..

you go get em guys....littering,smoking,trash at beach you all should run for Governor and tax the chit out of the fine people of your state for breathing.....wait i missed fire,bad food,farting

and this is the last I will be posting on this thread as you guys try and talk about every issue but the one at hand....kinda like The Obama administration...smoke and mirrors

I agree that this thread has gotten a little off track at times, but your unwillingness to respond to either of my posts gives me the feeling that you may in some way be starting to see the light. Current political climate asside (I think that may have been a ploy on your part to get this thread deleted) People have to realise that there is a huge difference between Big Brother and PUBLIC SAFTEY. "I paid $75,000 for my new corvette, I live in America Da**it, I should be able to drive it 180mph because it is my right!"/"I paid $1.5 million for my buisness, I should be able to allow my patrons to do whatever I want to allow them to do because it is my right." No, not quite. Ugh, I am getting sick of typing this, you are harming innocent people by allowing this behavior so there is now a law prohibiting it. If you drive 180mph all the time on public roads, chances are you will kill and innocent person. If you allow second hand smoke to billow through your establishment, chances are you will kill an innocent person. Is any of this sinking in yet or are you so tunnel visioned on how "the government is out to get you" that you can't see the real issue here?

 

[thunderstruck88]

cat man mike 5 thumbs up if I had 5 of them nicely wrote to !!!!!! you have a peaceful night and a great Sunday

 

[Admin]

Thought I had bowed out for good, but guess I have one last post (i hope it's the last) left in me.

Speaking for me and me only, I get what all of those of you against this ban are saying. You are just simply for the government not sticking it's head into others business and telling them how to run their show. I get that completely and in the majority of instances, I TOTALLY AGREE!

Contrary to what some may think (I am a skirt wearing liberal that needs to be shipped off to a different country to live my life of government control), I am ALL FOR as many personal freedoms there can reasonably be.

HOWEVER, what seems to be missed by some arguing against me is that along with FREEDOMS comes RESPONSIBILITY. No where in this world are you free to do ANYTHING you want, WHEN EVER you want and I can guarantee that none of you would go for that kind of a situation either.

We live in a civilized society and a necessary evil to all civilized societies are rules and laws. I dare anyone to find a civilized society that does not have laws. Laws are not put into effect to harm the innocent, they are put into effect as a DETERRENT to those that are irresponsible and bring harm to others through their actions. Unfortunately, laws can have a negative impact on the innocent. Again, all part of living in a civilized society. We ALL make sacrifices.

So for me, this law is not about big government taking over our lives. Heck it was a state law and not even a federal law. The ground work for this law was started during G Dubbs's tenure in Washington, so I have no idea why the feds and current administration are even being blamed for this one. Anyway, for me this law is about stopping a specific group of individuals from bringing harm to me and my family. Sure you say I could just choose to not go into an establishment that allows smoking and for the most part that is exactly what I did before the law. However, it was restricting my freedom to be in a place where the public is free to gather and enjoy life without being put in harm. So in a way, MY FREEDOMS were being withheld.

Times change and we as a society need to change with them. Many years ago, all the risks of smoking were not known and it was not even that long ago that ANY risk was associated with second hand smoke. Things have become more clear in these regards and thus the need for new restrictions have been enacted.

So I guess the bottom line for me is that I am not for new laws always, but do see them as a necessary evil sometimes. This argument seems to be more about where to draw the line rather than if the line needs to even be drawn. I respect those that are against this law and am not trying to change your mind by any of my posts, I am just trying to get you all to see my point is all.

Hopefully any bar owner will not be negatively impacted by this for an extended period of time, but for any bar owner that is, my friendly advice would be to make changes and adapt. After all, that is the definition of intelligence- the ability of an organism to adapt to a changing environment.

Oke doke, I think I am done!

-John

 

[lenny]

firecatguy,

"and i think smoking in a government building should be a no no......."

Why do you think that?

No on is trying to upset you here bud but respect would have prevented this, respect WILL prevent future similar instances. it's the root of a social behavior that has a huge impact on society. I am persistently trying to illustrate this with my comparisons and analogies.

I would be willing to bet we are much more alike than we are different. I do not want to contribute to division because of a world view, ideals or statements. Nest time you in this area if ever stop in and I'll buy the first brew or what ever you like (as long as I approve,,,,,just messin with ya, he he he). Seriously, most of us need help in the respect department including myself, it's hard work but well worth it. No hard feelings I hope?

 

[Skylar]

Wow, this baby took off eh? LOL.

I just got home yesterdasy from da yoop, it was a great vacation, know what made it better for MY family? No smoke in any of the establishments we went to.

People have pointed out that if one doesn't like cig smoke, don't go to the places where it was allowed, and we as a family tried to do that as much as we could. Now with the ban in place, we stopped in a couple of places that we as a family would not have normally gone too, because of the cig smoke. Case in point, The Mosquito. The last time we stopped in their as a family was about 4 years ago on our fall atv ride. We had lunch there. After we left my wife said, well we can't go in there again, too much smoke. And we never stopped in again, until this past week. We stopped in, along with my buddy and his wife and two boys, had a couple of beers, listened to some Lady GaGa, talked with Don and Donna, and really enjoyed the fact that it was smoke free.

I think after awhile the people who smoke, and are right now not patronizing their favorite bar, will miss the regular people they would normally see there, and return, and they will step outside and have a smoke, and walk back into the bar.

 

[Firecatguy]

ok It wasnt my last post....you got me back in here so here it is....

all right guys you may be surprised but I agree with you all!! kinda said that a few post back...I went in a place last winter up in the UP and the next morning i felt like i was still smoking.....made me remember why i quit......I also don't think this has anything to do with Washington or Obama but does have to do with local big government (is a sign of the times) and again i would like you all to remember that from one state to another the law is way different on what can and can not be done!!!!I ALSO UNDERSTAND THE RESPECT THING more than you would think.I would like to touch on the littering thing also!!!that is so wrong in many ways I ride a motorcycle and don't like when a smoker tosses a smoke out at 70mph only to hit the ground and turn into a nice spark and fire show that i can drive thru BUT this law is about smoking in a public\private place not cleaning up the looser smoker who litters and yes smokers need a class in respect I agree with that BIG TIME....but this is about smoking in closed structure.....
I am not the best at relaying my thoughts on a forum so some may take what I say wrong, with that said!! Lenny I agree Govt buildings,opera house,local pool,school and Im sure I could go on and on have no place for smokers shoot most them places I think smoking on govt property(ie.schools etc) is not only a bad idea but damaging to the general public, I am only and I say ONLY talking about ADULT entertainment places...
again I AGREE something needed to be done but like I said MN has taken it to far!! our local bars are doing what the law says they need to do! BUT they are all trying to put up separate from building shelter with heat and windows etc BUT thats a no no!!!COME ON, they got pushed outside why no shelter???make them suffer?wth would it matter if smokers had a little smoking room?
few scenarios for you all who live in a reasonably safe place.....

bar#1 down town murderapolis MN say you are lone female who smokes and now you have to go stand on the front sidewalk in a town were its not ideal to be out after dark Does she deserve to be killed or raped for he enjoyment of a smoke? kinda a stretch but possible!!That same bar at one time build a enclosed shelter with heat out of the eye of the general public but MN says no no no....

bar #2
I will use my 74 year old dads hang out....its in the city! but a nice safe neighborhood, High class steak and lounge set up!....old school steak house, great old duffs there. the bar did everything they could to upscale the smoking area outside...tree heater thing, little fire pit, chairs etc....I go there for dinner some times and it just kills me to see my pops killing himself with the smokes but now he is out in 10 degg weather WHY not no shelter???cuz big brother says no here...crazy!!!
I am not arguing with you guys I agree but maybe just maybe we can give a little leeway for them to take care of the situation!! again we are talking about apple and oranges as some states have different regulations pertaining to this subject and here in MN it is a tuff law...
Lenny I would love to take you up on the beer sometime you might be surprised on how respectful I am....I just think they should worked with the bars more and see if they could all come to a better middle ground than this.....
just so you know my dad after 60years of smoking no longer smokes in his house, moms doc said he was killing my mother but we redid his garage and added heat!! kinda a trade off works awesome for them,moms house smells great now and we repainted the entire place that is called a trade off and it works....maybe the local govt should take a look at my parents!!LOL

I wounder what the lawsuit would be like of the gal in Bar#1 as you all know she will sue the bar and its owner and WIN as the bar did nothing to make her reasonably safe when patronizing that establishment and you know some nanny state loving lawyer will take that case on any-day....kinda leaving the bar owner open to lawsuits