Trespassing vidio Watch and discuss

[blutooth]

I have park behind my house and in the summer the ball fields are packed with kids playing ball......I get balls in my yard alot!!!even caused damage in past!!!!I thinking I will get my gun out this summer, maybe smak a kid or two around!!!screw you kids who do they think they are jumping my fence!!!!maybe even get a bigger dog one that eats kids.........

so if you have a ccw you can walk around threatening people with your gun? on your neighbors land????

This isn't even a comparable situation in my mind. A bunch of kids trespassing in a neighborhood with people everywhere, vs an older guy approaching 2 fit sledders in the middle of no where? It is obvious that had it come down to a physical situation that the landowner would lose. He was holding a weapon for personal protection. He didn't walk up to them aiming it at them, it was in his hands. He is explaining the trespassing issue (a bit too heatedly) and the second guy gets off his sled and approaches (approaches aggressively in the sledders own words)? Whether your personal feelings differ or not, the current public sentiment is that the landowner would be acting in self defense.

In the middle of nowhere you get what you get. There is no running to the cops. You handle the situation as it sits, and that always means stay calm and never incorporate more aggression into the situation.

Anyway it will be interesting to see the results and if the landowner gets any legal charges against him in gun hating Canada. I'm betting no charges against anyone in this case.

 

[lenny]

This isn't even a comparable situation in my mind. A bunch of kids trespassing in a neighborhood with people everywhere, vs an older guy approaching 2 fit sledders in the middle of no where? It is obvious that had it come down to a physical situation that the landowner would lose. He was holding a weapon for personal protection. He didn't walk up to them aiming it at them, it was in his hands. He is explaining the trespassing issue (a bit too heatedly) and the second guy gets off his sled and approaches (approaches aggressively in the sledders own words)? Whether your personal feelings differ or not, the current public sentiment is that the landowner would be acting in self defense.

In the middle of nowhere you get what you get. There is no running to the cops. You handle the situation as it sits, and that always means stay calm and never incorporate more aggression into the situation.

Anyway it will be interesting to see the results and if the landowner gets any legal charges against him in gun hating Canada. I'm betting no charges against anyone in this case.

So Bluetooth, public sentiment trumps law? lol NOT! Who cares what public sentiment says because if it comes before the judge do you think he is going to take a poll and than make a decision?

Respectfully, Ring is a liar and not sure how anybody cannot see this. These guys are snowmobilers, not the hells angles or a gang. They are riding snowmobiles recreationally . They were on Ringos land and were no longer,,THEY LEFT! The trespassers are no longer on Ringo's land. So in your opinion Ring see's the trespassers leave and he is still fearing for his life, or possibly? If he had any fear he would not have approached them in a way that would provoke the skidooers. Ringo initiates a aggressive tone, mannerism and behavior.

I'm just not seeing it buddy, trust me, I am trying hard to accept what you guys are presenting but it does not sit well. Does not mean I am right but it just doesn't make sense!

 

[russholio]

In my humble opinion-- not necessarily an interpretation of the law -- Ring was indeed aggressive in his mannerisms and method of carrying his weapon. Aside from the head slaps and putting the boot to the sled -- both unnecessary -- his method of carrying his shotgun (one hand on the grip, one on the forearm, and in some instances, leveled) would indicate to me that he was ready to use it at the drop of a hat. A more non-aggressive approach (again, my opinion) would be to carry it shouldered, or at his side, which would send the message "hey, I don't intend to harm you but if you get ugly I will defend myself".

I DO think, however, that by getting off his sled and approaching a gun-wielding agitated individual, the sledder made a dumb move that, in my tastes (and apparently his, by his own admission) was aggressive for the circumstances. Consider this: if you were out on a walk, and a dog ran up to you barking and snarling, showing its teeth, in an obvious threatening manner, would you move toward it? I know what I would do, and it definitely wouldn't be to close the distance.

All this being said, two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[lenny]

In my humble opinion-- not necessarily an interpretation of the law -- Ring was indeed aggressive in his mannerisms and method of carrying his weapon. Aside from the head slaps and putting the boot to the sled -- both unnecessary -- his method of carrying his shotgun (one hand on the grip, one on the forearm, and in some instances, leveled) would indicate to me that he was ready to use it at the drop of a hat. A more non-aggressive approach (again, my opinion) would be to carry it shouldered, or at his side, which would send the message "hey, I don't intend to harm you but if you get ugly I will defend myself".

After 143 posts we have gotten somewhere I suppose. It's a great topic and good discussion!



I DO think, however, that by getting off his sled and approaching a gun-wielding agitated individual, the sledder made a dumb move that, in my tastes (and apparently his, by his own admission) was aggressive for the circumstances. Consider this: if you were out on a walk, and a dog ran up to you barking and snarling, showing its teeth, in an obvious threatening manner, would you move toward it? I know what I would do, and it definitely wouldn't be to close the distance.

All this being said, two wrongs don't make a right.

I agree, Ring could have walked up with the shot gun at his side and chewed these yokes out and both parties could have had a form of communication along with his fire arm doing talking of it's own. Ring was serious and that message was received when sledder one says "what the F", "really" while decelerating, Ringo never even heard what sledder said, not possible.

Personally, I think getting off the sled was a good move. He didn't walk fast towards, hands were at his side and he stopped, that means not walking anymore. Ring closes the gap, not the sledder, after a slap sledder still does not show aggressive nature. Sledder 2 diverts attention from the kicks to a head slap. If I was approached by a dog I would stand my ground, not retreat or pursue.

 

[russholio]

Personally, I think getting off the sled was a good move. He didn't walk fast towards, hands were at his side and he stopped, that means not walking anymore. Ring closes the gap, not the sledder, after a slap sledder still does not show aggressive nature. Sledder 2 diverts attention from the kicks to a head slap. If I was approached by a dog I would stand my ground, not retreat or pursue.

Good observation and good point. I still think I would've stayed closer to the sled (escape route) but I guess that's a matter of detail.

 

[lenny]

Good observation and good point. I still think I would've stayed closer to the sled (escape route) but I guess that's a matter of detail.

exactly and that's the beauty of individuals, we all act and do things different. Keep in mind the spread of a sawed off, there really would be no escape route. Ring will get you easily with poor aim,,,lol

 

[russholio]

Indeed, on all accounts. Though without looking at the video again (which I hear has been removed) , I don't believe the shotgun was sawed off (which typically indicates the barrel was shortened). The stock was removed in favor of a pistol grip which, to the best of my knowledge, does not fit the definition of "sawed off". But again, details.

 

[russholio]

Keep in mind the spread of a sawed off, there really would be no escape route. Ring will get you easily with poor aim,,,lol

Hence my reason for thinking that attempting to disarm him is extremely dumb. A shotgun at close range is a formidable weapon. The likelihood of injury (or death) even in a successful disarmament, is high.

 

[lenny]

Indeed, on all accounts. Though without looking at the video again (which I hear has been removed) , I don't believe the shotgun was sawed off (which typically indicates the barrel was shortened). The stock was removed in favor of a pistol grip which, to the best of my knowledge, does not fit the definition of "sawed off". But again, details.

shortened, sawed off is the same. Anyone can saw the barrel to what ever length a guy wants. The shorter the better for close range but you need some barrel. Looking at the gun again it is accurate to call that a sawed off pistol grip shot gun

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Hence my reason for thinking that attempting to disarm him is extremely dumb. A shotgun at close range is a formidable weapon. The likelihood of injury (or death) even in a successful disarmament, is high.

you would for sure need to know the proper way to remove that gun from Ring. Right hand on the barrel and left hand just over his left hand but more so on his fingers and stock. Lift up real quick with right hand and rotate left. Does not matter if gun fires as you control the barrel and he will not be able to maintain grip and loose gun swiftle if a quich precise motion is performed.

 

[jr37]

So Bluetooth, public sentiment trumps law? lol NOT! Who cares what public sentiment says because if it comes before the judge do you think he is going to take a poll and than make a decision?

Respectfully, Ring is a liar and not sure how anybody cannot see this. These guys are snowmobilers, not the hells angles or a gang. They are riding snowmobiles recreationally . They were on Ringos land and were no longer,,THEY LEFT! The trespassers are no longer on Ringo's land. So in your opinion Ring see's the trespassers leave and he is still fearing for his life, or possibly? If he had any fear he would not have approached them in a way that would provoke the skidooers. Ringo initiates a aggressive tone, mannerism and behavior.

I'm just not seeing it buddy, trust me, I am trying hard to accept what you guys are presenting but it does not sit well. Does not mean I am right but it just doesn't make sense![/QUOTE



I will reply once, and only once. I will not argue my opinion.

I take exception to the phrase "These guys are snowmobilers." These guys are not snowmobilers, they are some guys who happen to ride a snowmobile. There is a difference. "Snowmobilers" are respectful of other peoples property, are involved with maintaining trails, a club member. "Snowmobilers" wouldn't have gotten them selves in this position to start with.

 

[xcr440]

I will reply once, and only once. I will not argue my opinion.

I take exception to the phrase "These guys are snowmobilers." These guys are not snowmobilers, the are some guys who happen to ride a snowmobile. There is a difference. "Snowmobilers" are respectful of other peoples property, are involved with maintaining trails, a club member. "Snowmobilers" wouldn't have gotten them selves in this position to start with.

A voice of reason sums it up completely. Thanks jr37.

 

[wishbone]

WHAT?????

As landowner are saying that you want sledders to have permission to pass through your property so if one of them gets off course you can eff em in the ace with yur mighty shotgun?....LOL thanks but no thanks...stick your land up yur...


How would you have handled the situation, wishbone?

Not knowing all the details, I can't say how I would have reacted. If Mr Ring has had many years of trespassing problems. And one of his pets was killed by one incident, it explains his passion. I do not agree with the way he acted, and he may be in trouble with the law because of it, but can easily see how it can happen. The older generation does not tolerate "cocky" behavior well, and this is the backwoods not the city park.
We have been struggling to keep our trails open in this area. We depend almost entirely on private landowners. Reasons we have been denied permission include. Animals did not react well to traffic, Damage to small trees and crops from corners being cut, Loud exhaust systems, and fear of liability. I have seen many of things happen myself and the landowner does not need to show the snowmobile clubs proof of why he does not want the trails on his land.

blutooth ; I think we have a lot common
lenny; Your passion is clear. I don't think we see things the same way, but you are well spoken.
snobuilder; Hope you like running your sled on the road shoulder or on public land only.
My views come from being raised as a small town 3rd generation farmer. I'm approaching 50 and have 2 sons that love to ride also. The amount of work the AWSC , which I have been a member of my whole sledding life, puts into the trail system is unending. Events like this only make it worse.

 

[Dave_B]

This thread is going nowhere.
It's just causing endless, useless arguments between users against users.
Granted, I don't always agree with some folks but, what is really being accomplished here?
Nothing!
Leave it up to "landowner" and the riders to sort it out in court.
To continue this nonsensical arguing is just dragging this site down.
Let it go.
Nobody here was there!

Tired of these threads on JD being dragged out into the oblivion where nobody remembers the original point!

 

[lenny]

This thread is going nowhere.
It's just causing endless, useless arguments between users against users.
Granted, I don't always agree with some folks but, what is really being accomplished here?
Nothing!
Leave it up to "landowner" and the riders to sort it out in court.
To continue this nonsensical arguing is just dragging this site down.
Let it go.
Nobody here was there!

Tired of these threads on JD being dragged out into the oblivion where nobody remembers the original point!

yawn,,snort, scratch,,,,,hmmmm,,did you say something Dave? I recommend the unsubscribe option because some of us are interested, if not, find another thread,,,sorry but that there is true, no offense bud

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Not knowing all the details, I can't say how I would have reacted. If Mr Ring has had many years of trespassing problems. And one of his pets was killed by one incident, it explains his passion. I do not agree with the way he acted, and he may be in trouble with the law because of it, but can easily see how it can happen. The older generation does not tolerate "cocky" behavior well, and this is the backwoods not the city park.
We have been struggling to keep our trails open in this area. We depend almost entirely on private landowners. Reasons we have been denied permission include. Animals did not react well to traffic, Damage to small trees and crops from corners being cut, Loud exhaust systems, and fear of liability. I have seen many of things happen myself and the landowner does not need to show the snowmobile clubs proof of why he does not want the trails on his land.

blutooth ; I think we have a lot common
lenny; Your passion is clear. I don't think we see things the same way, but you are well spoken.
snobuilder; Hope you like running your sled on the road shoulder or on public land only.
My views come from being raised as a small town 3rd generation farmer. I'm approaching 50 and have 2 sons that love to ride also. The amount of work the AWSC , which I have been a member of my whole sledding life, puts into the trail system is unending. Events like this only make it worse.

I really wanna know how we differ. Could you please explain that to me? I am serious and not sarcastic, very curious. My entire argument is about Ring and his over the top behavior. I cannot give him a pass o this because that goes against simple law. You cannot assault people if someone trespasses. Please help me to understand this. Just as Mr.Ring acted super sketchy, a sledder could react in a poor manner just as Ring did. Because Ring is a farmer, does he get privileged treatment? I myself said I understood Rings frustration but never could I accept him threatening someone to the point that they are worried if they will live or die,,is this right? I understand a battered wife taking her last beating from her drunk husband of 25 years and finally swinging the ball bat while he's sleeping but is this really what you are asking me to agree with. I am speculating here if this is indeed what yu are implying so seriously, help me understand.

 

[Dave_B]

Lenny.

Your a brother from another mother.

The Yawn, scratch and snort wasn't what I was looking for but, makes my point.
That's all this has become is a yawn scratch and snort forum.

I don't want to "unsubscribe" and I don't want to go away. Enough of the "originals" have done that already.

I just don't see the point of dragging topics like this to where they become nonsensical! There isn't solution to the problem and it will never go away.

 

[jcd]

Reading this thread I only have this one post. I have been involved in Snowmobiling at the local, County, and State level for years. I don't say I agree on how both parties acted in this action. What I don't believe is how everyone reacted, defending both parties instead of posting a positive attitude toward Snowmobiling. If all of you are club members you all know how hard it is to keep the trails open. In our area we ride on mostly private land, this means treating the landowners land with respect.It is so hard doing this when riders ( you know the ones ) cut corners, ride off the marked trails, ECT, ECT, ECT, you get my drift. Lets all get together and ride with respect for the ones that are letting us ride. We all for sure do not want it to come down to riding on State or Federal land only, if this happens we will all be riding in a big old circle. I'll get off my Peach crate now, Thanks. Let's all join a club and make our trail system great. Jim

 

[russholio]

shortened, sawed off is the same. Anyone can saw the barrel to what ever length a guy wants. The shorter the better for close range but you need some barrel. Looking at the gun again it is accurate to call that a sawed off pistol grip shot gun

You say "tomayto", I say "tomato", I guess. I'm no firearms expert but whenever I've heard the term "sawed off", it applied to the barrel (which is illegal -- or at least, there's a minimum length the barrel can be, though I admittedly don't know what that length is). The pistol grip, to the best of my knowledge, IS legal. (based on Michigan law) But at any rate, I don't think it's really important to the ordeal either way.

This thread is going nowhere.
It's just causing endless, useless arguments between users against users.
Granted, I don't always agree with some folks but, what is really being accomplished here?
Nothing!
Leave it up to "landowner" and the riders to sort it out in court.
To continue this nonsensical arguing is just dragging this site down.
Let it go.
Nobody here was there!

Tired of these threads on JD being dragged out into the oblivion where nobody remembers the original point!

No, we won't solve the problem. But how many threads on this board do? Personally, I enjoy a lively debate (I honestly don't see an "argument" here) with worthy contestants about an interesting subject. I think exercising the brain is a good thing. Nobody is getting hostile, nobody is getting nasty, no swearing at one another, no name-calling. All the rules of the board are being observed. Frankly, I don't see the problem. I know that when I come across threads that don't interest me, or that eventually lose my interest, I just don't read them. We all have that option. Seems pretty easy to me.

 

[Dave_B]

You are right so,
I guess I'll just stop reading.

 

[polarisrider1]

Brain exercise??? Some fire up the bong and others drink the bong water. Just saying. Dave B. May I suggest a thread pertaining to your views. Maybe add a poll.

 

[Dave_B]

Brain exercise??? Some fire up the bong and others drink the bong water. Just saying. Dave B. May I suggest a thread pertaining to your views. Maybe add a poll.

Funny guy!
We've had this conversation and seems we are pretty much on the same page.
Pat summed up my views on this subject. What else do you want to talk about?