Trespassing vidio Watch and discuss

[lenny]

Protecting your family and house is one thing...chasing people down outside and saving the snow in your yard is another.....one deserves a gun and one dont.......

bluthooth- just fyi the guy was assaulting my friend and had taken his key out his sled.....self defense is what the police called it.....and believe me if the second sledder in the video reached in his coat and pulled out a legal permitted gun and shot him dead I am sure the video will show a land owner who was unreasonable and out control trying to defend your land with a gun is a no no thats why we have police....defending your house with a gun is very different..........people need to start using there head better!!!! the action better warrant a gun......if you have a gun out that means your going to use it not wave it around...

what I really hope is some you watch this video and understand that you can not act like the landowner did in this day and age!!!!The only ones in the situation that would been justfied to shoot was the sledders being stoped at gun point by someone who does not own the land!!!

Our land in Pine city is right on the lake...took me 18years to make it look like a golf course from the house to the water!!!!new neighbors in cabin next door decided that a new 4wheeler and letting there kid run in our yard when it flooded was great idea......guess what the sheriff said!!!!!!need a fence to keep them out or signage every 10ft or there nothing they can do but give a warning......trespassing is not as cut and dry as some you think...a gun is way over board unless you plan on kicking someone sled and hitting one in the head then you might need a gun.....be prepared to goto jail

pat, you are dead on and well said. It really is disturbing to think that many on here believe it's fine to smack someone, damage their property and point a deadly weapon at them, basically it was revenge, especially when he did all this after the sledders are off his property. He was looking to send a strong message and the problem is not all people receive a message in the same manner. if I were all these guys I would just shake hands and make up, lessons have been learned,,,I HOPE!

 

[Dave_B]

Protecting your family and house is one thing...chasing people down outside and saving the snow in your yard is another.....one deserves a gun and one dont.......

bluthooth- just fyi the guy was assaulting my friend and had taken his key out his sled.....self defense is what the police called it.....and believe me if the second sledder in the video reached in his coat and pulled out a legal permitted gun and shot him dead I am sure the video will show a land owner who was unreasonable and out control trying to defend your land with a gun is a no no thats why we have police....defending your house with a gun is very different..........people need to start using there head better!!!! the action better warrant a gun......if you have a gun out that means your going to use it not wave it around...

what I really hope is some you watch this video and understand that you can not act like the landowner did in this day and age!!!!The only ones in the situation that would been justfied to shoot was the sledders being stoped at gun point by someone who does not own the land!!!

Our land in Pine city is right on the lake...took me 18years to make it look like a golf course from the house to the water!!!!new neighbors in cabin next door decided that a new 4wheeler and letting there kid run in our yard when it flooded was great idea......guess what the sheriff said!!!!!!need a fence to keep them out or signage every 10ft or there nothing they can do but give a warning......trespassing is not as cut and dry as some you think...a gun is way over board unless you plan on kicking someone sled and hitting one in the head then you might need a gun.....be prepared to goto jail

We actually agree on something!
Well said.

 

[snobuilder]

If the guy would have gotten out of his truck without a gun and simply waved the guys over and stated his concerns and past problem with trespassers I think the 2 sledders would have apologized, shook hands and learned a lesson.
Instead, they might now be thinking real hard about CC while sleddin' if it is legal where they are.

.... this guy reminds me of the same intellect as the tow truck driver trying to catch the Audi in the TV commercials.

 

[lenny]

If the guy would have gotten out of his truck without a gun and simply waved the guys over and stated his concerns and past problem with trespassers I think the 2 sledders would have apologized, shook hands and learned a lesson.
Instead, they might now be thinking real hard about CC while sleddin' if it is legal where they are.

.... this guy reminds me of the same intellect as the tow truck driver trying to catch the Audi in the TV commercials.

oh but come on, all the sledders in Canada GPS his property just to ride by stomping his kittens and spooking the ostrich, skidooers needs to get the message he ain't taking no more bull!

 

[indy_500]

We actually agree on something!
Well said.

x2 You guys that think that what the landowner did was fine need to get off your high horse anyone who says they've obeyed the law 100% and never trespassed in their lifetime whether it be on purpose or accident is completly fooling theirself IMO. Firecatguy hit the nail on the head...

 

[Ramsey]

Based on what I saw in the video, I'm bettin' that those two don't ride on Dude's property again.

 

[russholio]

anyone who says they've obeyed the law 100% and never trespassed in their lifetime whether it be on purpose or accident is completly fooling theirself IMO.

Completely true. But did anybody in any of the preceding posts actually say this? If they did, I missed it....but I do recall seeing a few who, in fact, were man enough to admit that they had on occasion been guilty of trespassing.

The landowner was wrong in his methods (i.e., what he did was not "fine"), but right in his motives. Doesn't matter whether sleds cause damage to his land and/or animals or not. It's his property and he has every right to not want sleds, ATV's, bikes, autos, hikers or whatever else on it. "NO" means "NO".

 

[Firecatguy]

We actually agree on something!
Well said.

see I am not that bad guy!!!!
I just think me and you got off on wrong foot...I reviewed that entire ordeal...

 

[russholio]

Based on what I saw in the video, I'm bettin' that those two don't ride on Dude's property again.

Indeed. But I'll bet he hasn't seen the last of them!

 

[lenny]

Bravo for the ringmeister who chases people down, damages property, smacks people and assaults them with a deadly weapon. Bravo for all the people who somehow justify these criminal activities because it makes you feel better somehow. I believe this all come down to a matter of political correctness, people who defend ring want to appear sympathetic to the poor land owner who has been abused by sledders. Somehow you fell this improves the image of sledders if you side with a landowner. If sledders on a sledder site sympathize with the landowner we all appear to be good sledders,,that or you have no common sense whatsoever!

Trespassing does not warrant an illegal use of force with a deadly weapon. Use your brain instead of your might and be sensible. No one here is condoning trespassing but by you guys condoning the actions of ringmaster you nullify the legality of the entire situation. Some of you I would expect more from but hey, if your sole motive is to appear politically correct,, than thanks for the moral decline of our system at the expense of principle.

BRAVO!

 

[russholio]

Lenny, I'm not sure why you continue to insist that the folks who "defend" the landowner condone his actions? MOST of the posts I've read on here (not all, of course) including my own (which I thought I'd been pretty clear about) that "defend" the landowner state that they agree with him for being upset about the trespassing issue, but do NOT agree with the way he handled it. Unless I've misread or misunderstood somehow?

 

[lenny]

Maybe this is why Russ! Go back and read some of these comments. Post # 3,7,10, yours on 12,18,19,20,24,30,31,34,35,69,86.

how about this quote:

"I think the sledders are lucky the land owner had enough cool not to use the gun. If not, two hot heads wouldn't have made a right, and we'd be reading about this on the local, or even national news. Black mark on snowmobiling for sure, regardless of all the hoopla about kickin' the guys *** for a foot print on your precious little snowmobile."

Or maybe this one:

The guy who gets slapped in the helmet, gets off his sled, and lips off by saying "what the **** are you doing" to the land owner. I guess if i would have been the land owner snd some disrespectful punk said that to me, i would have done the same thing. Better yet, instead of kicking the hood, maybe put a round through it eh? Yea, now were talking!

No one single post on here says trespassing is acceptable but we do indeed have some on here who support Ring. Now we have a guy who smacks someone, damages a sled, waves and points a shotgun at people and the response from us is misunderstood? lol

This is a serious matter and like others have stated, possibly a felony but I do not see you guys mentioning the extreme nature of Rings action or calling it as it actually is. Somehow the sympathy for the land owner clouds the issue and that my friend is a degree of condoning his actions. Many from the get go see ring as out of control and are not sympathetic for the clown in any way. I seriously think that we as sledders try an repair the incident to a minute degree by publicly not calling out ring and showing him sympathy.

 

[russholio]

In theory I could understand the sledders getting lost or off the trail unintentionally, for any number of reasons. We've all done it. Now, I don't know how the trails are in western Canada but here in Michigan with our signage it doesn't take long to figure out that you're not on a trail. And if there are "no trespassing" signs posted (no mention if there were or weren't) it's usually a pretty good indicator that you're probably somewhere you shouldn't be and its time to turn back. I understand and 100% agree with the landowner being upset, and verbal confrontation is one thing, but I think he crossed the line when he got physical. Nothing good usually comes of that. As far as having a weapon....can't say I blame the guy for bringing one since you never know who you're dealing with, but it seems like he could have carried it in a manner that would appear less threatening. I'd say mistakes were made by all and they all were lucky it wasn't worse.

I'm not sure how this is construed as supporting the landowner's actions. Seems to me to be quite the opposite.

Lenny, I'm not sure why you continue to insist that the folks who "defend" the landowner condone his actions? MOST of the posts I've read on here (not all, of course) including my own (which I thought I'd been pretty clear about) that "defend" the landowner state that they agree with him for being upset about the trespassing issue, but do NOT agree with the way he handled it. Unless I've misread or misunderstood somehow?

Again, seems pretty clear to me.

Of course there are going to people who think the landowner did nothing wrong and behaved properly. There are probably people who think the sledders did nothing wrong. But I still stand by my thinking that both of those groups are in the minority.

 

[lenny]

I'm not sure how this is construed as supporting the landowner's actions. Seems to me to be quite the opposite.



Again, seems pretty clear to me.

Of course there are going to people who think the landowner did nothing wrong and behaved properly. There are probably people who think the sledders did nothing wrong. But I still stand by my thinking that both of those groups are in the minority.

No Russ, myself and a select few have called out Mr.Ring and called his actions for what they are. The majority have sugar coated his actions and not taken a strong stand because they do not hold a strong position, and that's fine, we're all different but it is what it is and for many it falls under the acceptable range.

It's similar to a guy getting beat up while people walk by and do nothing to help. I do not do that, I will not do that. Most would leave a guy for dead and mike somewhat light of a serious situation,,,not good!


no one has said the sledders were right in trespassing but some have said landowner was just fine. Point is when excessive behavior is exhibited we ought to cal it out, not make excuses.

I'm going riding now, sled is warmed up and I just gotta rip!

 

[ranlam]

This is getting really stupid. The sledders were wrong for trespassing, the land owner is wrong for waving a gun and using force, and for having sex with animals,lol. Personally i would lock up the latter. I dont see myself reading anymore of this thread. Gonna go riding or maybe ice fishing, later.

 

[xcr440]

"I think the sledders are lucky the land owner had enough cool not to use the gun. If not, two hot heads wouldn't have made a right, and we'd be reading about this on the local, or even national news. Black mark on snowmobiling for sure, regardless of all the hoopla about kickin' the guys *** for a foot print on your precious little snowmobile."

My point with this was more of why make a bad situation worse by getting into it with who ever the guy is? Land owner or just plain crazy? At that point, with someone standing in front of you with a gun, the snowmobile is the LAST thing I would be worried about. And I hope you or anyone else doesn't ever get into this situation, take the guys gun and throw it 75 feet into the snow, only to have him pull out another from his coat after you *think* you have disarmed him.

Not trying to condone the guys actions anymore, but he certainly made his point. As pointed out by others, I wouldn't be surprised, he is the one who gets in trouble.

 

[russholio]

No Russ, myself and a select few have called out Mr.Ring and called his actions for what they are. The majority have sugar coated his actions and not taken a strong stand because they do not hold a strong position, and that's fine, we're all different but it is what it is and for many it falls under the acceptable range.

It's similar to a guy getting beat up while people walk by and do nothing to help. I do not do that, I will not do that. Most would leave a guy for dead and mike somewhat light of a serious situation,,,not good!


no one has said the sledders were right in trespassing but some have said landowner was just fine. Point is when excessive behavior is exhibited we ought to cal it out, not make excuses.

I'm going riding now, sled is warmed up and I just gotta rip!

I understand your point. And I get your concerns about people whose actions go over the top. I don't think I've sugar coated Ring's actions, or made excuses for his excessive behavior, but at any rate, how much of a stand, pro or con, can we really take on a discussion board?

Enjoy your ride....I wish I had that option! Pity us city-dwelling trolls whose snow is gone and can't even use yard work as an excuse to get outside since nothing is growing. Now the boredom sets in (hence why I've probably spent too much time on this board) God, how I hate spring!

 

[russholio]

At that point, with someone standing in front of you with a gun, the snowmobile is the LAST thing I would be worried about. And I hope you or anyone else doesn't ever get into this situation, take the guys gun and throw it 75 feet into the snow

Definitely agree. Unless you have the training or experience to attempt such a maneuver (and most of us probably don't, despite some of the bravado displayed in previous posts), this is about the dumbest thing somebody could do, and very well could end up being the last thing they do. I'm sure the deceased's widow and children would take great comfort in knowing that their husband/father fought the good fight and bravely defended his sled's honor to the bitter end.

 

[blutooth]

I keep going back to the poll on the website... Yeah, everyone in the video was not shown in their best light, but at the end of the day the public is siding with the landowner. To me that is the biggest take away we as sledders can get from the incident. If you are trespassing you have no idea what you are going to come across - you are the outsider, NEVER the victim.

This has nothing to do with political correctness. I'm not defending the actions of either really, but I sympathize with the landowner more than the sledders in this case. Plain and simple. How many posts are there on this forum every year about trees and fences being damaged in the UP? What is the real cost of that to landowners? Don't you see why they are upset?

You can get behind your keyboard and try to pontificate about the laws of Saskatchewan and how you would have handled the situation - or even try to apply them to your own state, but remember trespassing laws can vary greatly from state to state so there is no clear cut rule on what each situation dictates (know your state laws). In Wisconsin for example open carry is completely legal - you can carry a gun in the open and if you are doing it when confronting a trespasser that certainly isn't assault with a deadly weapon - obviously kicking the sled isn't good, but I would bet money any DA is going to side with an angry landowner over a trespassing sledder.

But only a fool would ever try to wrestle a gun away from someone after you were just confronted for trespassing on their property. Once you do that anything that happens afterwards is most certainly self defense on the part of the landowner and you the trespasser are SOL. (See George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin if you need convincing).

Cooler heads always prevail. Remember to apologize, show respect and move on quickly.

 

[blutooth]

One more case in point. This year WI gun season. My buddy shot a deer it ran onto adjacent property and died. We hustled out to retrieve it. While hauling it the landowner pulled up in his truck, got out, pulled out his rifle and walked out to us. We were in the middle of a 40 acre field. No living deer in sight. Did I assume he brought the gun out in case a deer ran by? Of course not. I knew exactly what was going on. Landowner made his way to us yelling about what the heck we were doing. I quickly apologized, offered to let him keep the deer and made sure he knew we recognized we were in the wrong. Guy calmed down let us drag the deer out. Said we got a pass this time. Did it ever cross my mind and pick up my gun and ask him what I did wrong? Next time we will call before going over there and hopefully never have to.

was it uncomfortable, did I feel threatened? Sure, but I never would have put a video of the incident out there saying I was the victim.

Same principles apply this is not sledder specific.