UP Signage Revisited

snobuilder

Well-known member
So bein a bit vocal ,pre-season on the trail signage removal in the UP, I have to admit that I was wrong to jump to the conclution it would be a disaster.
We rode along at our normal pace wherever we went this year, and when going back onto SOME northern WI. trails noticed many unecessary signs cluttering the trails.

What say youse?
 
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lenny

Guest
well,,,I didn't wanna say anything,,,lol Seriously, I am glad it didn't pose a serious problem. I didn't think it would but I have been known to be wrong on many occasions
 

snowdance

Member
On our UP trip it wasn't an issue either. Some in our group that were unaware didn't even notice until I brought it up.
 

ktm909

New member
signage

Talk to the rental shops to see-how many rentals are being damaged. It is not the people who know the trails that need the signs, its the newbies who we need to keep in the sport.
 

nytro_rtx

Active member
Just 1 question, why did they leave the stupid "WET AREA" signs all over??? I would think the bridge ahead signs are more important??? No issue with the sign removal other then that seemed realy strange.
nytro
 

polarisrider1

New member
Retaining newbies was never an issue before signage and the invention of groomed trails. So why is it now? That's why Polaris makes a 550 to slow the newbies down. But a newbie needs to be responsible for their own actions and not fall back on society as the blame for everything that they feel does them wrong. (Entitlement generation). Time for them to put on their "Big Boy" pants.
 
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lenny

Guest
Talk to the rental shops to see-how many rentals are being damaged. It is not the people who know the trails that need the signs, its the newbies who we need to keep in the sport.

newbies are gonna wreck stuff with or without signs. I'll see if I can find a video that will shock you
 

ezra

Well-known member
spent 5 days total ridding in the UP this yr less than 10 mi total on a trail did not notice any diff
 

lvr1000

New member
My only two issues were 1) the grade (around Phoenix) I met a sled at a bridge/culvert? I was hugging the snowbank(as was he) and just as we were about to pass on the bridge and I was watching him, I noticed at the last minute the small post with a little yellow sticker. As you know, the trail is slightly narrower on these. I had to do a slight positioning change to prevent from hitting the post, IE serve to the left. Visibility wasn't the best.
2) Feb 19th (blizzard) Visibility was horrible and a difficulties determining where the trail was a few times. I didn't know which treeless path of 3-4 ft drifts was the trail or just an opening in the trees. Course with the 50 mph blowing snow, might not have seen the sign anyway.

Later that week I did come across some rental sleds that failed to make a turn outside of Lake Linden. Newbies, trying to lift the sled out of the stucks. Glad I didn't meet them in the turn!
 

russholio

Well-known member
My experience is also that it has not been the disaster I thought it would be. I still encounter Rickys coming too fast through a turn (marked or unmarked, doesn't seem to matter) on my side and I wouldn't say the number of those occurrences is any different than before the change.

However -- and this is not a b*tch session, or complaint, or blaming anyone, it's simply an observation -- it seems as though we've regressed in terms of consistency in signage. Back when I started riding (mid 90's) some systems were well-marked, some were not. Over the years, the playing field leveled out and most systems were on par with each other. Not anymore. I've seen plenty of 90 degree turns that were not marked and should have been (in my opinion). I've seen some that were marked that didn't really need to be. Placement of the signs is inconsistent and often times in spots where they are hard to see.

The biggest issues I came across, however are these:

1. Several intersections being poorly marked (in terms of which trail was which and where it went). This could have been the work of vandals.

2. Several instances of trail direction not being indicated (i.e., when coming to a road, does the trail go across, or turn alongside?) Similarly, when the trail runs along the road, several instances of no indication when the trail suddenly turns back into the woods).

3. Open areas that were (in my opinion) low on confidence markers. I found it difficult on several occasions to follow the trail through a large open area when everything is white, looks the same, and there are no sled tracks to follow.

Even when traveling at reasonable speeds (I am by far not a fast rider) I found the aforementioned to be bothersome. I did not think #3 was part of the removal program so I can't explain why it's that way. Maybe I'm just getting old and my eyesight is not what it used to be.

The biggest problem with the new method of marking curves (or not marking them) is that it leaves too much to subjectivity. What I feel is a 90 degree turn that should be marked, may not appear the same to somebody else. And so on. Personally, I think they should either go back to marking them all or marking none, and letting rider beware.

FWIW, there have been 17 recorded fatalities this season. That seems to me to be on par with other years. Several incidents were not on marked, groomed trails. Of those that were, I don't know if there's any way to tell whether lack of signage played a role, there are no such indications in the accident summary and I'm certainly casting no aspersions or making any judgements.
 

ajscam

Member
For me, the difference was noticeable, but it did not impact my enjoyment in any way whatsoever. In fact, I thought it was more enjoyable without all the signs cluttering up the trail. I was not paralyzed with fear that I was going to blow every unmarked corner, nor did I see newbies wrapped around trees at every unmarked corner.

Did the clubs/msa/dnr get the new signage absolutely perfect on their first attempt? No, of course not. I don't think that this is a reasonable expectation. Improvements can be made, and it appears, through posts here & elsewhere, that once clubs/dnr were made aware of trouble spots, adjustments were made mid-season. More adjustments will be made through the off-season.

Heck, I'll go so far as to admit it; it slowed me down somewhat, and forced me to ride more cautiously. And I'm fine with that. I still had a ton of fun!
 

russholio

Well-known member
For me, the difference was noticeable, but it did not impact my enjoyment in any way whatsoever.

Did the clubs/msa/dnr get the new signage absolutely perfect on their first attempt? No, of course not. I don't think that this is a reasonable expectation. Improvements can be made, and it appears, through posts here & elsewhere, that once clubs/dnr were made aware of trouble spots, adjustments were made mid-season. More adjustments will be made through the off-season.

Heck, I'll go so far as to admit it; it slowed me down somewhat, and forced me to ride more cautiously. And I'm fine with that. I still had a ton of fun!

I agree. I wouldn't say it slowed me down, as I've never been a speed guy (most people other than my wife would say that if I went any slower, I'd be going in reverse). But it definitely did keep me more alert, and there's nothing wrong with that.
 

Polarice

New member
I'm sure that there are many crashes that we didn't hear about that were caused by the lack of signage. Still idiocy at it's best, period.
 

sixball

New member
Had no problems at all. The only sign I think could be revisited is the bridge ahead sign. We had some grate ridding in the U.P. this year. No one in our groups had any issues and no one even brought it up unless asked.
"I'm sure that there are many crashes that we didn't hear about that were caused by the lack of signage." I don't think this is a fair statement as no on knows, and no one knows if signage or poor ridding habits would have more to do with any problems with undocumented crashes. JMHO.
 

fredster

New member
Our club discussed at our Feb meeting. I thought things with the new signs were going well, me and the family rode over 1,000 miles this year and no big problems. Club president had a different view, indicated there were a lot of issues where the trails leave a straight/fast 2 track and turn into the woods, in the old days these turns were well-signed but not any more. Apparently we had quite a few people blow these turns/corners and he has been bearing the brunt of the complaints....not sure if there were any true accidents/injuries, just lots of negative feedback. He indicated he was going to provide feedback to the DNR. I don't think anything will change (although bigger arrow signs would help), but was surprised that there were issues. I will admit though that I miss these corners being marked more clearly esp when you go from a 12 feet wide/fast 2 track to an 80 degree turn onto a narrow/curvy woods trail. Obviously, going a little slower helps.......
 
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