WI residents: AWSC wants to force you to join a club or raise your registration

polarisrider1

New member
dntsne1, enough with the whining. We get your message. I am a life member of the MSA. sticker several sleds for several states and Canada. I am proud of our trail system here in Michigan. We get a deal for the money. The AWSC is trying to inprove the whole system for you. It takes steps and time. You will not agree on everything. Do you have a better plan in the works??
 

magie03

New member
dntsne1, I'll give you a good example of why you should JOIN A CLUB. Today I called a land owner, YES I DID, not the DNR or the AWSC, I did,----ya know what he told me? Nope I do not want snowmobilers on my land any longer. He said they left trash on his land and would not stay on the trail last year. He also said he did some research and found out that all snowmobilers do not belong to snowmobile clubs, he ask me why? I told him that that is there right. He said that was the dumbest thing he ever heard of, and that is probably why his land looked like it did. He said he was sorry, but no trail this year. This was a main trail through our town which will no long be, so I guess me being part of a snowmobile club should just say SCREW it and not even try to find another route into town. RIGHT? because the trails fall out of the sky. Or maybe someone from the DNR or the AWSC will come and talk to some new land owners. Ya know what I think I'll do what dntsne1 does------NOTHING.
 

todds

New member
Don't worry magie03, THEY will take care of it. THEY will make a new trail. THEY will call more landowners. THEY will apologize for "the few bad apples" that didn't respect the landowners land. THEY always do.
 

todds

New member
That's one of my favorite lines. Why don't THEY make a new trail from point A to point B? Why don't THEY do a better job of grooming? Why don't THEY let ATVs use the snowmobile trails? THEY should do a better job of marking the trails. THEY, THEY, THEY.....

Some people don't seem to realize that THEY is us and belonging to a club is how the work gets done.
 

magie03

New member
I like the they thing, that is so true. I still think that most of the people do not have a clue. The trails just pop out of the sky and onto the land in December. We had our meeting last night, I wrote an article in our town news letter that just informed towns people of our snowmoble club. Our trail boss got kind of scolled at a county meeting about it because I wrote in my article that if you own a sled, joining a club is the right thing to do. supposedly I was telling people they had to join a club.?? GET INVOLVED.
 

dntsne1

New member
I know the extent of work it takes and as I stated I help out more then alot of your club members, but the attitude that YOU are owed something is complete garbage.

Whine and complain about your CUSTOMERS more and see where that gets you. Snowmobilers are your customers and your clubs are the service provider. Like any business you have good and bad, it is what you do with these that will make it successful or make it fail.

Yes I do have a plan, I proposed this to Bill Schumann in January 2009 and I was told that in this economy there was no place for any type of increase, but here in October 2009 it is fine?

Bottom line, I have not heard one single person explain why the increase needs to be $19.25 a year per person, why not $5, $10? Dont tell me becasue of short falls, becasue there is ALWAYS going to be short falls.
Also where is the 3 million dollars going? It is NOT laid out in the proposal. If you are a club member and you are for this then you should be able to explain this in detail.
 

magie03

New member
You and I acually agree on something. I agree $19.25 a year??? I do believe that if your not a club member ( or not invoved in someway ) these people should pay more. I'm sick and tired of asking land owners, brushing trails, marking trails, maintaining trails, taking signs down, and putting all the signs away for bunch of free loaders that think if they register there snowmobiles it's ok to ride the trails (and yep I know thats how it is right now) but I personally hope that changes. People that live by us, buy a house and think it is ok to drive across anyones land to get to the trails, and us as a snowmobile club get all the s__t for it. These people need to understand how things work, and how hard it is. I think you and I are kind of talking in two different directions, so there you go.
 

blu2u2

New member
dntsne1 the cost for a person to join an AWSC Snowmobile club is $20/year. This is the same cost before the $.75 is taken out for the "vender fee" ($34.25-$14.25=$20). So the $20 (19.25 after vender fees are applied) is a credit given to those who belong to a club and pay their dues.

magie03 if you are talking about the Outagamie County Snowmobile Alliance Meeting last month; I was there when your trail boss was told that your message needed to be changed. The Board asked that your message be changed to "invite snowmobilers to join a club vs. require them to be club members". It wasn't like they yelled at your trail boss. They just made it clear that your message was not worded the best. Even though it is a good idea; you don't have to be a club member to ride on public trails in WI.

Crispyknite is right.
United we trail...Divided we fail!
 

todds

New member
"Whine and complain about your CUSTOMERS more and see where that gets you. Snowmobilers are your customers and your clubs are the service provider."

I think we found the problem. Snowmobile clubs are not running a business as service providers and other snowmobilers are not customers. Snowmobiling is Wisconsin is a collection of COLLEAGUES working together to create a shared trail system. We can always go back to the system with private club trails, open only to members of a particular club.
 

sabercat

Member
Snowmobiliers are extremely dedicated to the sport. I would bet most people would like to help out and talk sleds. That being said if you have low membership in a snowmobile club you should take a look at yourselves and the way you run your club. Everybody over 60 years old? Maybe its that way because you don't connect with anybody younger.

Club funds low? Maybe you should have some fund raisers during the summer instead of waiting till November to sell hot chocolate at the abandoned ball diamond. (que the crickets chirping)
 

magie03

New member
blu2u2----------
My message read as this, If your going to ride the snowmobile trails you need to belong to a club. I did not say my club, I just said a club. It's the right thing to do. And I know they don't have to. It's not like I said (join a club or we'll GET you) It was a suggestion that I thought was good. It could have said, if your going to snowmobile it would be a good idea to join a local club. Word mishandled.
 

magie03

New member
ble2u2-----
Explain to me how it works as of today? Our club pays $20.00 for a single person and $25.00 for a family as of today. How much of that goes to the AWSC now, and how much goes to the clubs? Then explain to me how they want it to work next year? THANKS
 

renegade

Active member
The cap step program is a good idea. I t will add 2 million bucks into the general fund and basically it will only break even. That means in 5 years if expences increase it will already be short. Personally I would like to see it higher. Joining a club just gives you a credit towards registration, it will still cost the same for everyone. $19.25 won't even fill an empty gas tank on a sled. Not saying I agree with the allocation of the money, but the amount is not out of line. There are a lot of bridges that are being patched back together when they should be replaced. Just remember, there are alot of politics involved because politions are the ones voting for this, that could explain some of the allocations. They are looking for good PR.
 

blu2u2

New member
magie03-
Currently $10 goes to the AWSC regardless if a person joins as a family or a single. The club keeps the extra $10 for a single membership and $15 for a family membership.

I am not 100% sure on the details right now so before I state anythting about next year; I will verify the facts first.
 

sleeping_dragon

New member
You may be interested to know that the year you speak of nearly 40,000 there were also nearly 50 more clubs on the roster, many of which have gone under due to lack of funding and participation.
I have the awsc 40 th anniversary booklet right in front of me if anyone needs any more of these numbers.
My biggest concern is that when I recently attended the awsc workshop, I think I was one of the youngest people there at 38!!
This bill might not be the perfect answer, but we obviously need to do somthing to get more people into the clubs unless we want to be riding around in circles in our back yards.
The "groomer of the year" has been doing it for only a short time I think since 1971 when he dragged an old bedspring down the trail.
The point that I am trying to get across, is that we somehow need help, and if no one is willing to volunteer maybe this bill will at least open the eyes of some ridres that have no clue how the trails come to be. Unfortunately, this is a great percentage of the people that ride.
 

blu2u2

New member
sleeping dragon, I agree with you about the average age of the AWSC Workshop attendees.

I sat at the table with Mr. Dorich "Groomer of the Year" and yes he did start with a bedspring drag being towed by his Artic Cat Cheeta but the year was 1973. This was before my time as I am only 34 years old.

As of 10-21-09 the AWSC had 577 Clubs and 26,208 members. It looks like in 2001 they had 608 Clubs and an all time high of 39,094 members. Note in 1999 the all time high number of clubs was 615.
 

jpsted

New member
Here's the reality, you can charge more and provide credits for belonging to a club, but the only real problem being solved will be narrowing the gap on the $2m budget shortfall. Perhaps we'll have some new bridges, signs, etc.(and for these reasons alone I'm for paying more in the form of registrations or a trail permit).

This program does not fix the other problems. I've heard a number of guys complaining in this thread that they're tired of doing all the work while others do nothing...do you really believe this is going to change? Sure, you may have more club members, but how many of the new members will actually volunteer to trail brush, groom, etc. Many new members will be from a locale that is perhaps far from the club trail system and will pay dues and consider it only a "cost of doing business". Is that right or wrong...I don't know. But don't expect a guaranteed surge in individuals contributing to the physical work and upkeep. And those currently doing the work...are you going to feel better if your still the only ones doing the work but the club is getting more money from the state? I hope the answer is yes, cause if your expecting much more you may be sorely disappointed. Also, if riders are going to pay more, should they have an expectation of better groomed trails...perhaps?

This measure also doesn't keep the individuals who currently do not obey the laws or rules of respectful treatment of others from continuing to do this. The yahoo that rides off trail on private land and ruins a 1/4 acre of young seedlings will continue to do so, only now he's paying a bit more to do so.

And the reality is that snowmobiling in WI is a business...whether you want to agree with that or not...I don't really care. But to simply say it's a group of colleagues working together to enjoy the trail system is a bit naive. It is a business. Millions and millions of dollars are generated each year in this state by the sale of sleds, gear, gas, food, lodging, transportation, donations, services, etc. The question becomes though who is best suited to manage this business and pull the many moving parts together to improve what we currently have...is it the AWSC? I don't know...but I'd say until they get out of bed with the DNR and many of the states politicians and lobbyists that they are NOT the best suited to look out for the best interests of snowmobiling in our state.

And I'm going to go way out on a limb here and I'm sure offend quite a few fellow sledders...but I do not agree with anyone who believes that snowmobiling is simply a privilege and not a right. In fact I believe it is my right to be able to operate a snowmobile in a responsible fashion on multi-use public land. I temper my position by admitting that operation of my sled on private land is a privilege. But I should have every right to operate on public lands. And until the AWSC recognizes this(they continually compromise with the DNR and have slowly been giving away our rights). I'm not suggesting they play hardball, but we need someone or a group with the savy, intelligence, management and negotiation skills to demonstrate and leverage the economic impact the sport may or may not have on the state. of WI.

And for those of you who fault/criticize the rider who does not belong to a club...you should also look at any business owner in any community with the same scrutiny who benefits from our sport, but who does not contribute in anyway, either directly by volunteering or financially. And lord knows there are many who fit this description out there.

Off my soap box.
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
jpsted- The rights/privilege discussion is not an emotional one, it is a factual one. In the US you have the right to free speech, free religion, freedom of press, freedom to assemble, to bear arms, to have a jury trial, to not quarter troops, to not endure unreasonable search and seizure, etc. (see Bill of Rights). Those are your rights.
You can snowmobile all you want on your own land, but the PRIVILEGE of snowmobiling on public lands is granted by the state, and the state may attach restrictions or revoke that privilege as it sees fit.

You do not have a right to drive a car on public roads, it is a privilege granted by the state with certain conditions. Your driver's license is your consent to those conditions.

You have a right to keep and bear arms, but hunting is not a right, it is a privilege granted under certain conditions. Your hunting license is your consent to abide by those conditions.


You do not have the right to snowmobile, walk, hike, ski, or bicycle on public land. The state may choose to grant you that privilege and attach conditions. You agree to this by buying a registration which is your legal agreement to abide by these conditions.

I am not emotionally involved in this discussion, but the rights/privileges issue is one that has been explained to me by a well respected lawyer friend of mine. Our "rights" are few and well defined, and they are called "Rights". All the rest are privileges, and the state may attach conditions as it deems appropriate.

You are, however, correct that this increase will not fix the rest of the problems. Fee increases are designed to fix only one problem, and that is revenue.
 
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