WI residents: AWSC wants to force you to join a club or raise your registration

dntsne1

New member
I want to make you all aware of what the AWSC is trying to do. The AWSC is trying to get support for the following:

This is from their site:


LRB-3172 (CAP/STEP LEGISLATION) FEATURES


1. Makes registration a one-time event unless a transfer occurs.
2. Requires the use of an annual trail use sticker to ride on snowmobile trails.
3. Establishes a two tiered trail use sticker fee - $34.25 and $14.25 for AWSC member effective July 1, 2010. Owners with valid registrations for 2010-2011 receive a $15.00 credit for their 2010-2011 trail use sticker. Owners whose snowmobile registration expires on June 30, 2010 will not have to renew their registration and instead only will need to acquire an annual trail use sticker.
***Call this what it really is, a increase for any NON club members and a discount for a club members. This is just as Bill Schumann himself said to Fox 6 in Milwaukee (January 2009) that there should not be ANY raise in the registration with the economy. Also this would give a state resident only a .75 cent discount (per year) on a pass over a non resident user?
4. Authorizes AWSC as the vendor for resident snowmobile club trail user stickers and that AWSC will be able to recoup its administrative costs.
NOTE: Trail use stickers would continue to be available to non-AWSC members through DNR and associated vendors.
5. Trail stickers become the basis for appropriations, rather than registrations.
6. Allocates the entire non-resident trail fee to the Supplemental Account.
7. Eliminates the sunset provision on nighttime 55 mph speed limit.
***Does this mean that they support the night time 55 MPH or not? Again they are not specific, and from all the meetings I have been to this is how they keep an open door to switch their agendas into place.
8. For fiscal years 2010-2011 and for the 2 fiscal years thereafter, appropriates: ***The registration money is not the AWSC's money to give away, this is the state of Wisconsin's money, so unless the AWSC is coming up with this money from their pocket this is ultimately the AWSC trying to re distribute the states money...since when are they a government organization?
• $150,000 for state law enforcement. Actual appropriation is roughly $25,000 as 2009-2010 state budget includes nearly $125,000 for law enforcement
• $40,000 for alcohol education and alternative transportation programs
***What are these programs EXACTLY? There are NO specifics. At the last G.S.R.C meeting Morris was asked what these were and Morris/the AWSC did not have an answer
• $30,000 for state trails.
9. Creates an absolute sobriety standard for operators under the legal drinking age.
***This is ALREADY the standard.
10. Doubles the penalties for intoxicated snowmobilers if a minor under the age of 16 is riding on the snowmobile.
***How many of the fatalities and or accidents over the past 10 years have involved under age drinkers? I will find out


TOLL-FREE LEGISLATIVE HOTLINE: 1-800-362-9472


AWSC CAP/STEP LEGISLATION

For nearly four decades, volunteers (particularly AWSC members) have maintained the quality and safety of Wisconsin snowmobile trails. These trails are regarded as some of the best (if not THE best) in the country. Snowmobiling has become one of our state’s leading outdoor activities, contributing hundreds of millions of dollars in tourism and retail revenue to state coffers.

During these many years, AWSC members have been paying up to $20.00 annually in membership dues in addition to standard registration fees. They have purchased expensive grooming machines, acquired access to properties and volunteered countless hours of their time in order to assure the quality of our trails.
***The clubs have bought this, with money that WE the non members and members have donated, along with the membership dues.


Shortfalls in funding and reimbursement have become regular occurrences, and the financial burden and time commitments placed upon AWSC members have grown immense. Nearly $2 Million in project requests for the 2009-2010 snowmobile season were denied due to a shortfall in available funds, while the number of volunteers maintaining our trails is shrinking.
***There are short falls EVERYWHERE right now, we are in a recession, this happens. EVERY YEAR there are projects not approved and short falls, the state does not have empty pockets.

Several states have addressed these growing problems by instituting their own versions of the CAP/STEP program, successfully increasing funding for snowmobiling and increasing membership in organizations that foster trail maintenance, quality and safety.
***Which states have done this? None in the Midwest, they are all out east where the registration is low and so are the club memberships.

Registration fees in our state have not increased in over 10 years. Even though costs have gone up significantly over that period, each year the quality of our trails has remained intact due to the efforts of volunteers who often pay out-of-pocket to keep our system in top condition.
***Can we see the specific amounts that have been paid out by the volunteers? If this is a legitimate claim then there should be paperwork that can be audited to back this up.


Combining annual registration and trail pass fees, snowmobilers in our neighboring states typically pay more than Wisconsin operators even though our state has many more miles of trails to maintain and supervise. Through the CAP/STEP program, Wisconsin can remain a tourism draw, infuse much-needed revenue into the Snowmobile Program and increase membership in clubs which for decades have been carrying more than their fair share of the workload with respect to maintaining Wisconsin’s snowmobile trails.
***The above fees mentioned nothing about marketing for tourism. The clubs are not forced to maintain the trails, this is a VOLUNTEER basis, club members and non club members do trail work before, during, and after the season. What about the land owner who does not belong to a club and maintains his own land? What benefit do they receive, NONE.

Under this program, we are not forcing snowmobilers to join clubs. ***YES THEY ARE!!! Join our clubs or else you pay more, either way they will get their $20*** We are asking the Legislature to raise the cost of resident trail fees for every resident snowmobiler. The exception is that if an individual already contributes $20.00 annually to a not-for-profit AWSC member club, the cost of that club membership will act as a credit toward the purchase of a resident trail pass. ***Again what about the land owners who give the permission for the clubs to come across our land? We receive NO benefit. What about the land owner who also does all their trail improvements, they have not received money to improve their land, why are they not able to receive this benefit? With out land owner permission we would not have such a good trail system. It ALL STARTS with the land owners.
What about the non land owner non club member who stops at the local club buys food and drink and raffle tickets and spends more then $20 a year, haven't they reached the magical contribution amount?

Again, similar programs in other states have proven to be extremely successful in raising capital and increasing active membership numbers. ***These programs are out east in areas with small registration numbers and small club membership. Lets look at the AWSC and the overwhelming membership numbers? They are dwindling and the demographic is dominantly 60 +, they are not growing their membership numbers like they used to and they do not have a good business plan to address this, yes bottom line this is a business. The AWSC has approximately 18000 members give or take and there are approximately 228000 registered sleds in WI, this is 7% of the total registration. The AWSC needs money so either they need new members and their dues or they want the state to place a $19.25 (per year) fee on our registration and then have the state give the money to the AWSC.

The continued success of the Wisconsin snowmobile trail system is at risk, and the time to raise the cost of operating a sled is at hand. ***Again Bill Schumann himself said to Fox 6 in Milwaukee (January 2009) that there should not be ANY raise in the registration with the economy, so what has changed since then? NOTHING we are still in a recession.
If there is a need to increase registration for a REAL reason, what about <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> increase, not going from $15 to $34.25 a year.


Michigan Snowmobile Trail Permit is: $35.00
Minnesota Snowmobile Registrations Fee: $45.00

***Both Michigan and Minnesota have more sleds registered then WI and the trails are safer....


***This proposed bill does not have the sport of snowmobiling in Wisconsin in mind, it is plain and simple the AWSC as a business trying to help their agenda and their bottom line.
There are other ways to increase the membership in the AWSC and the support for our sport but this is not one of them!
In the spring AWSC meeting I could not believe the disconnect I saw between what the membership wants and what the leaders of the AWSC have since represented to the GSRC; again showing that the membership they have is not treated as being important to them (The AWSC) as a business, but yet it is that membership that has created the good and bad of the AWSC
 
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scott_l

Guest
So are you personally against this? Are you currently a club member? If so an active club member?

I personally think the idea is good (but might need a little work).......why should a small group of people do the majority of the work (usally volunteering) to keep the trails open and ride able for all.

I was out this past weekend brushing trails in northern MN.

All the four wheelers used where club members. Most of the tools where club members. At the end of the day we stopped for a bite to eat. Yup we paid for our own meal. And yes we do pay a club dues. I enjoy working on the trails and being apart of the club, but I would guess there are plenty of people that have never put five minutes into the sport other then making sure there sled is shinny and ready to ride as soon as that first snow falls.

It sounds like a similar situation in the U.P. (another thread on John Dee) they had a trail work weekend and it sounds like they had a small group with some from out of state. Where was every one else?

There will be lots of opinions on this topic.......lets keep this thread pleasant and see what all have to say.
 

blu2u2

New member
There are two sides to every story! Some important details were mentioned above. It is true that nearly $2 million in project request for the 09-10 season were denied due to a shortfall in funds. Does it make sense to use money that is generated by trail fee permits to be used for non-snowmobile related expenses? The entire non-resident trail fee money should be allocated to the Supplemental Account so the money can be used to help make our trails safe and more enjoyable.
The AWSC is not forcing snowmobilers to join a club. They are asking the Legislature to raise the cost of resident trail fees for every resident snowmobiler. The exception is that if an individual already contributes $20 a year to a not-for-profit AWSC member club, the cost of that club membership will act as a credit toward the purchase of a resident trail pass. AWSC club members will be paying the same as non-club members after the membership fees are factored in.
As of 10-21-09 a total of 26,208 members were registered with the AWSC. So about 11% of snowmobilers are AWSC members.
The majority of the trails in WI cross private land. Without clubs efforts to work with the landowners and maintain the trails; all snowmobilers would have less trails to ride on. I have yet to see the (non-club member) landowner working the trails but maybe this is done in other area of the state?
Unless a person has thousands of acres of their own private land to ride on; snowmobiling is a privilege not a right! The AWSC is the leading body that works to make snowmobiling in WI fun for all. Without the AWSC and local Club support our trails in WI would suffer.
 

ezra

Well-known member
I would rather see a bigger chunk of the money go to the club.if the sticker is 34.25 I think the club should get say $30.00 in MN most all the trails I ride are club maintained and the ones the state is supposed to maintain never get groomed and olny get brushed buy clubs
 

harvest1121

Well-known member
I do not mind if we have to pay more for registration. I just do not want 2 sticker on my snowmobile like Michigan does if you register there. I live in Illinois and register in wisconsin. I do not do this because its cheaper just rather not give Illinois any money. I do not think people will mind paying as long as the money is being used and not for some administration fee to keep someone having a job nothing to do with snowmobiling.
 

ubee

New member
This is the same Bill Schumann that wants Awsc prez position a paid job. They will go the same way first USSA did! It will turn into a big money grabwith pd. positions as they will look out for the $ instead of their members! just my .02 worth. I also belong to AWSC and there are lots of qualified people who would do the job for free to promote snowmobiling!
 

lookin4snow

New member
Ubee,

I suggest that you talk to your friends who would be willing to do the job for free and encourage them to run for President of AWSC in the Spring. If you go to the AWSC meetings, which I do, you will find that the active participants and Board members are retired individuals who have different ideas and are often out of touch with "mainstream sledders." Those of us with day jobs do not have the time to devote to organized snowmobiling beyond the time that we put in with our own clubs. Therefore, the pool of qualified candidates is limited.
 

ubee

New member
That is a Great Idea!I'll bring it up and see if I can find some new blood to pump into the orginization! Theres lots of qualified mainstream snowmobilers that aren't working and could use a job for expense account cash flow right now.
 

dntsne1

New member
Scott,
"So are you personally against this?"
Yes I am, there is no need for this much of a increase. The bottom line appears to be fueled by the AWSC not having $$ which is a result of not enough of a market penetration in the WI snowmobile community. The numbers I have show a 7% rate and another by blu2u2 shows 11% either way that is a poor representation of the snowmobile community. Any business model (or no model) can tell anyone that this is poor.

"Are you currently a club member?" No I am not, I do not agree with the way the AWSC is run or the stance on key issues in our snowmobile community.
With that being said I financially contribute as much as any member to my clubs where I ride, and I put in MANY man hours through out the year.


blu2u2:
"I have yet to see the (non-club member) landowner working the trails but maybe this is done in other area of the state? "

I am one of these such land owners, and so are the other 6 members of my family who also own in the land. We have graded our own roads, laid new gavel, trenched problematic water logged areas, we trim all of our trees, remove any dead falls that may occur and this is done with our money,machinery, time and no assistance has been requested to local clubs for man power or money.
We do not do the above work with snowmobiling in mind, we do this to benefit ourselves and the way we use our land, and the winter use of our trail benefits. This has been no small job as the trail uses approximately 160 of our 860 acres....

The AWSC's leadership is out of touch with the new generation of snowmobilers, and from the discussions it is not only I that see'u this. As ubee and lookin4snow have mentioned New Blood in the the leadership is the only way to change to organization.
 
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scott_l

Guest
dntsne1

You are against the possible increase (I respect that). How would you suggest the AWSC (or other state clubs) increase revenue, increase membership? I don't think getting a couple "new leaders" would solve that problem.

You can not argue the fact (you said 7% and Blu2u2 said 11%) that a very small percentage of snowmobilers actually contribute to the sport. But a large percentage have no problems bashing an area or club because the trail they where riding Saturday afternoon was bumpy or poorly marked! Only two things could fix this volunteers (to fix the signs or trails) and money (to pay for the equipment)!

You also said "Yes I am, there is no need for this much of a increase" have you looked at your trail pass increase this year, or Michigan's. They have all increased dramatically. So has the price of sleds and everything else. It is not a cheap sport to participate in nor is it cheap for the clubs to take care of the trails!

Another question I have for you or others that live in WI. I heard if a none resident registers their sled in WI the majority of the registration fee goes to the "WI snowmobile industry" but if a non resident purchases a 1 year trail pass only a very small percentage goes to the "WI snowmobile industry". Is that true if so why?

I am really surprised more people have not spoke up!
 

Hoosier

Well-known member
Scott - I have heard that also and that is one of the reasons I register my sled in Wis. I live in Indiana but ride mostly out of Eagle River, WI and in the UP.
 

Hoosier

Well-known member
dntsne1 - when you say the leadership of AWSC is out of touch with the new generation of snowmobilers, what do you mean? I am a member of the MSA but not the AWSC but I am interested.
 

snobuilder

Well-known member
AWSC Asso. of Wisconsin Snowmobile Clubs
dntsne1
Thanks for being a donating land owner. I wouldn't mind seeing an honorary membership given to landowners such as yourself.
BUT your generous contribution to the sport is the exception to the norm.
I am an active club member and while NOT forcing ppl to join a club has been the noble thing to do in the past, I think tis sport has grown to the point where this action might be necessary.
 

rocky367

Member
From what I understand from the convention this last weekend, (I wasn't there in the a.m.) but the state was 4 million short in funding for bridges, new trails and that sort of improvements. Along with that the clubs are down on membership the last few years. So the idea behind the STEP program is to encourage people to join a club to help maintain the trails, and keep the money where it is needed.
Seems that the money from out of state registrations does end up in the general fund, I recall hearing that this last weekend and that they are trying to get that 2 million back into the snowmobile fund. I am for this STEP program as in my club there are only a few of us going out to do the work, and about 20 in the club, we need more folks to join us or we will be gone eventually. And even though I encourage my brother to join a club he doesn't, but he rides.. I am hoping that the "penalty" as stated will encourage him to join more than I can do and that is what it is aimed at.
 

fusionfool

New member
Whitedust, You are correct. NY state did this back in the 90's. To get a trail permit you had to have insurance, and join the club. I am not sure if they still have the same requirements or not. Back then, as an out of state person we had to bring along proof of insurance and proof of our state registration, and 25 / sled fee for the club membership.
 

90s

New member
Some, but very few realize what it takes to get the trails ready for the season and then maintaining them. some think the dnr pushes a button, and the trails are cleared of brush, signs put up, talked to landowers because some snomobilers got off trail and flattened a bunch of his seedling trees, straightened out the ruts left by atv's & 4wd. Some members are getting tired of busting the butts and getting nothing for it. We personally get nothing for our trucks, chainsaws or time that we put in.I've stopped at pit stops and hear snomobilers complain about the trails, when asked if they belong to a club, the answer is usually no. We were not $4 million short for requested projects this year, it was $1.8 million. If I remeber MI out of state pass is $35 & I beleive they're looking at $45 in the future. I wish there was some way to compensate the landowner, but if it was dollars, there wouldn't be enough money to go around. some one mentioned-what about landowners that maintain the trails on their land, I have been involved for many years , and I have not heard of this. The money that funds the trail system comes from YOUR registration and a gas tax formula. The registered sleds is staying pretty constant and the gas tax formula is the same, so just so much money is generated. Maybe it would have been simpler to raise the registration and forgo the cap/step, but either way the system needs money to continue to maintain the high standard and miles of trails. Remeber, WI has close to 20,000 miles of trail to fund. MI & MN have considerably less miles. If you really want to help the clubs, call your WI state Rep/Sen and ask them to support WI SB215.
 
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scott_l

Guest
pulled this from the MN DNR site

Minnesota's GIA snowmobile trail system has grown to over 18,000 miles.
 

blu2u2

New member
90s has the right idea! However, WI has about 25,000 miles of trails. The Legislation for the CAP/Step program is LRB 3172. Please call 800-362-9472 and state that you are in favor of the program (sign on/vote for it). THANKS!
 

blu2u2

New member
Attached is the information sheet that was handed out at last weekends AWSC Fall Workshop...
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