will you still go???

[snohawk]

Why is there such a price difference between Wisconsin and Michigan. I think a 2 year for Wisconsin is $35 and Michigan is $45 for 1 year and if you live in Michigan you have to register it also. Where is all the money going in Michigan?

WI resident is $30.00 for two years. Nonresident is $35.00 per year
Will I pay $45.00 for a MI trail pass, yes if that is the only place that has snow otherwise I will continue to ride in WI and stay south of the border when we ride up in that area.
My wife will never go back to MI, because everytime I have taken her to the UP the bumps have been very bad on Saturday mornings. It is also the only place that had snow so the traffic was heavy. I think that all of the trail passes will hurt the family part of sledding, I have five sleds in my family and to pay $45.00 or $35.00 for each sled for one day or weekend gets to be to costly and I would tend to just stay in the state in which my sled is registered in and not ride if no snow. Increasing the fee will not hurt the single riders as it does for families. A snowmobiling family will bring a lot more money to an area than a single rider does, with lodging, food and gas.

 

[snohawk]

The chart does look like that it is not wasted. I would like to see if Wisconsin has some type of chart like that. If Wisconsin has that many more sled registered so they do not have to charge more. Just wondering if Michigan think the higher the price the more money they bring in while Wisconsin charges less and has more registered. I am going to snowmobile in Wi and Mi so I just like to see the cost difference.

WI uses the gas tax multiplier to fund the trails and it is based off of the sled registered at Feb. or Mar. This money is used for the trail maintenance. The money collected by the WDNR for Sled registration is sucked up by the DNR, the trail fund might get $3.00 of the $15.00.
Here is a link that explains better http://www.awsc.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=iHyCt-hXY1c%3d&tabid=229&mid=903

 

[FZ1]

I have thousands of dollars invested into snowmobiling, whats another $10. So, yes, I'll be buying another 3 next year. Actually its another $30 I guess.

 

[Banks93]

If you really want to look at the fee it has been raised 80% in the last two years. It use to be $25.

I am sure everyone could spring for the extra amount but it sure makes you think of what the government in MI is doing with the 80% they had from somewhere else before the rate increases or what the snowmobilers are really funding.

Basically this poll is looking like a land slide for the no's if you take out the MI people not to mention all the lost money in the gas, food, hotels and other supplies.

The reason I say a landslide is because we all love snowmobiling and people who don't like it as much are sure to have an issue with it.

Lets say 20,000 people snowmobile in the UP over the winter.

20% loss is 4200 people
$147,000 loss in $35 fees
3 day weekend trip - $300 loss per person x 4200 - Total loss $1,260,000
1,407,000 of a loss because of the rate increase.

The rate increase would of made them $11,000. Still think it is a good idea.

Just using some numbers to show it isn't a smart move IMHO especially in a down economy.

 

[lenny]

banks, from your post:

"sure makes you think of what the government in MI is doing with the 80%"

for someone who is "wondering" you sure have come to a definite conclusion. This thread had a good premise but has jumped the gun and speculation has run it's course,,,,by the way, mi residents pay the same amount

 

[xsledder]

Currently 41 nos, 148 yes:

189 * $35 = $6,615
148 * $45 = $6,660

 

[Banks93]

banks, from your post:

"sure makes you think of what the government in MI is doing with the 80%"

for someone who is "wondering" you sure have come to a definite conclusion. This thread had a good premise but has jumped the gun and speculation has run it's course,,,,by the way, mi residents pay the same amount

Yes, but if you live in MI and ride you have to buy a pass the second part came from reading the post from someone who said they haven't spent any of the easement money.

 

[russholio]

I'm still confused as to why some people think Michigan residents shouldn't count in this poll. Our money is just as green and worth the same amount as money from other states. And we're just as free to pay or not pay the increase as anybody else is.

 

[Banks93]

I'm still confused as to why some people think Michigan residents shouldn't count in this poll. Our money is just as green and worth the same amount as money from other states. And we're just as free to pay or not pay the increase as anybody else is.

Because the poll is asking if this will change your mind. Being a resident in the state of MI doesn't really give you an option if you want to snowmobile. It does give people from MN, WI, IL, IA, IN, OH and other states choices to make if they want to continue to come to MI or choose another destination to spend there money. The point of the poll was to see how many people will stop coming to MI to snowmobile not how many people will still snowmobile from MI.

 

[lenny]

Yes, but if you live in MI and ride you have to buy a pass the second part came from reading the post from someone who said they haven't spent any of the easement money.

I no more "have" to buy a pass that anyone from any other state. The point is mute. I have a better reason to NOT buy a permit, because I mainly ride off. The point of someone risking a ticket by no permit is the same for an out of state'er or resident. IN fact, I would be willing to say more locals do not buy a permit for particular reasons, not getting into that now

When the UP has snow and WI does not, which is often the case, WI people will come but cry about. You'll continue to say WI is better because we have more twisty but when you have NO snow, you'll be here. When you get a ticket for not stopping at a stop sign or ticketed for 52 at night, you'll still be here claiming WI is better and MI sucks because we had to pay a few bucks more. One thing I am tired of is WI mentality, being 46 and observing, it's real. Not saying all are like this but I have seen a trend. I have a good friend that is state racist,,,lol but true. Always making stupid statements like when he's going down the highway and someone blasts past him he can be assured it's a FIB, or other things like your lucky to see a yooper mow his grass. It's all gibberish.
They always say FIB'S this FIB'S that, complain about a permit increase fee that Polaris1 showed exactly where it is going. Whatever, well all survive regardless, Ask this question when the snow is flying, SOMEWHERE

 

[russholio]

Because the poll is asking if this will change your mind. Being a resident in the state of MI doesn't really give you an option if you want to snowmobile. It does give people from MN, WI, IL, IA, IN, OH and other states choices to make if they want to continue to come to MI or choose another destination to spend there money. The point of the poll was to see how many people will stop coming to MI to snowmobile not how many people will still snowmobile from MI.

Sure it does. I can choose to go to Canada, or New York, or Pennsylvania, or Ohio, or Illinois, or Wisconsin, or Minnesota, or out west, or any number of places. Of course, it would be silly of me to do so since the $10 increase would be way more than offset by the extra money I would spend getting to these places, not to mention having to buy THEIR permit (if they have one), but that's beside the point.

 

[Banks93]

Wow is all I am going to say.

If WI raised there snowmobiling fee 80% in two years I would still have to pay it because I live and snowmobile in the state. I would expect less people from MN, IL, MI and other states to come use our trails because of it. I wouldn't count my self in the same poll because I live here and don't want to break the law by not having one.

I guess if that makes me a state racist I need a new definition of racist. I actually enjoy the UP. I just said I would change my plans because of it and so will others. If and I don't play the lottery WI wouldn't have any snow then yes I would go.

 

[polarisrider1]

Wow is all I am going to say.

If WI raised there snowmobiling fee 80% in two years I would still have to pay it because I live and snowmobile in the state. I would expect less people from MN, IL, MI and other states to come use our trails because of it. I wouldn't count my self in the same poll because I live here and don't want to break the law by not having one.

I guess if that makes me a state racist I need a new definition of racist. I actually enjoy the UP. I just said I would change my plans because of it and so will others. If and I don't play the lottery WI wouldn't have any snow then yes I would go.

I see no reason to ride in MN, IL or WI. We got it all here, nothing like Lake effects snow!! I think the permits were $25 here for many years, then went to $35 for the past couple years and then It suppose to go to $45. How is this 80% in 2 years equate. Those who are involved with the local snowmobile clubs and MSA knew about this stepped increase about 5 years back. As I have stated in other posts this increase was polled first to snowmobilers before the MSA fought for it. The extra money and the not yet spent money in the easement fund is going to purchase permanent trail land and easements to ensure you have a place to ride and your grand kids have a place to ride. Trust me this costs much more that the $10 increase. Hopefully we can get matching grants from the state when the state has money again. Point is You have no point. it is a mere whine. You feel entitiled to ride here because you spend a little coin here. So what.

 

[dcsnomo]

How is this 80% in 2 years equate.

$inc./base rate=%inc.
$20/$25=80%

 

[lenny]

Wow is all I am going to say.

If WI raised there snowmobiling fee 80% in two years I would still have to pay it because I live and snowmobile in the state. I would expect less people from MN, IL, MI and other states to come use our trails because of it. I wouldn't count my self in the same poll because I live here and don't want to break the law by not having one.

I guess if that makes me a state racist I need a new definition of racist. I actually enjoy the UP. I just said I would change my plans because of it and so will others. If and I don't play the lottery WI wouldn't have any snow then yes I would go.

your making everything way to black and white bud. When you say 80% it sounds bad but 80% of $25 is not much, it's almost negligible. Everything is raising in cost, food, gas, sleds, groomers, drags, energy in general. You say you would expect people to stop visiting WI if they did the same. What if they like riding Wis as I do. Is beautiful there. I love the narrow twisty trails so I'll buy a permit. Am I saying I am in favor of paying more? not really but am I willing to deal with the increase as long as I see an increase in many other aspects of the industry that go hand and hand, I suppose. Am I happy about it, no less than you.

Banks, please understand this, I was referring to my buddy who is a good friend. It's not an attack and is there such as a thing as state racist? NO but I do get tired of hearing fib, cheesehead, troll. No if it is used in general conversation but when it heats up a conversation you find out where a persons heart is. You've said nothing in regards to someone thinking your prejudice. I regret saying what I said in the way I generalized, please accept my apology. If trail permits get up to $100 that would be my breaking point. I am a snow lover and ride more than most but much less miles, 500 miles this year. You guys do more than that in a weekend so me being a resident does not imply exactly how you see a typical resident, in fact, most residents in my area are the same as I. I know 70 yr old guys that ride offtrail, never buying a permit. They lived here all their lives and know the woods better than we know city streets. No need to buy a permit because thery'll be no one to ever see them riding, you knoiw what I mean?

 

[windingtrailgal]

Notice I have stayed out of this red hot mess of a thread ...but I DO have a question...

NOT because I'm looking to be illegal or anything. I will buy my permits. We now have a house there...I use the trail system and am happy to purchase AT LEAST (4) $45 permits - although I didn't vote 4 times and I also didn't put in a vote for the other 2 sleds that "reside" at our UP house. Xsledder - although I like that you are posting the totals - they may be a little off in the end for the simple fact that folks like me purchase multiple permits.

That said...my question is what is the fine for NOT having a trial permit? That would weigh in for someone who is thinking of "taking their chances," yes? Let's say WI has some good snow for the year and one decided to ride from Boulder Jct, WI up to White Pine for some fine bowling at the Konteka...if one knows the ticket IF one gets caught is $50, one may go ahead and take their chances. If it's $150, one may not be as likely to do so. If someone has multiple sleds in their family, a $50 ticket/sled wouldn't be worth it to "get caught" either and this would weigh in on one's decision whether to purchase the permit or not.

I'm sure I could look it up but am figuring someone knows the figure off the top of their heads??

 

[xsledder]

Notice I have stayed out of this red hot mess of a thread ...but I DO have a question...

NOT because I'm looking to be illegal or anything. I will buy my permits. We now have a house there...I use the trail system and am happy to purchase AT LEAST (4) $45 permits - although I didn't vote 4 times and I also didn't put in a vote for the other 2 sleds that "reside" at our UP house. Xsledder - although I like that you are posting the totals - they may be a little off in the end for the simple fact that folks like me purchase multiple permits.

That said...my question is what is the fine for NOT having a trial permit? That would weigh in for someone who is thinking of "taking their chances," yes? Let's say WI has some good snow for the year and one decided to ride from Boulder Jct, WI up to White Pine for some fine bowling at the Konteka...if one knows the ticket IF one gets caught is $50, one may go ahead and take their chances. If it's $150, one may not be as likely to do so. If someone has multiple sleds in their family, a $50 ticket/sled wouldn't be worth it to "get caught" either and this would weigh in on one's decision whether to purchase the permit or not.

I'm sure I could look it up but am figuring someone knows the figure off the top of their heads??

Your are correct, they can be off because of multiple purchases or other reasons. Unless there is someone on this site that is an actuary or a statisition that can account for such irregularities, I'm keeping it simple (1 vote = 1 permit).

One thing I noticed since the beginning of this poll. The nos haven't dropped below 20%. I personally thought the nos would be half of what they are.

I'm sure of MSA really wanted to know what would happen, they would higher a professional pollster (I'm not a professional pollster, or do I play one on Johndee.com (poor attempt at humor)).

 

[windingtrailgal]

Your are correct, they can be off because of multiple purchases or other reasons. Unless there is someone on this site that is an actuary or a statisition that can account for such irregularities, I'm keeping it simple (1 vote = 1 permit).

One thing I noticed since the beginning of this poll. The nos haven't dropped below 20%. I personally thought the nos would be half of what they are.

I'm sure of MSA really wanted to know what would happen, they would higher a professional pollster (I'm not a professional pollster, or do I play one on Johndee.com (poor attempt at humor)).

Wasn't picking on you in the slightest xsledder...I stated I appreciated your totals...is good to see.

 

[polarisrider1]

Notice I have stayed out of this red hot mess of a thread ...but I DO have a question...

NOT because I'm looking to be illegal or anything. I will buy my permits. We now have a house there...I use the trail system and am happy to purchase AT LEAST (4) $45 permits - although I didn't vote 4 times and I also didn't put in a vote for the other 2 sleds that "reside" at our UP house. Xsledder - although I like that you are posting the totals - they may be a little off in the end for the simple fact that folks like me purchase multiple permits.

That said...my question is what is the fine for NOT having a trial permit? That would weigh in for someone who is thinking of "taking their chances," yes? Let's say WI has some good snow for the year and one decided to ride from Boulder Jct, WI up to White Pine for some fine bowling at the Konteka...if one knows the ticket IF one gets caught is $50, one may go ahead and take their chances. If it's $150, one may not be as likely to do so. If someone has multiple sleds in their family, a $50 ticket/sled wouldn't be worth it to "get caught" either and this would weigh in on one's decision whether to purchase the permit or not.

I'm sure I could look it up but am figuring someone knows the figure off the top of their heads??

I just got off the phone with MSA, They said they are not 100% sure on the ticket cost but suspects the state hits you for $125 to $150 for no permit on a sled. They declined to partcipate in this forum or any forum other than there own., but would love to talk to anyone about the price increase or any other concerns related to Michigan snowmobiling issues. Just call the MSA office.

 

[Banks93]

your making everything way to black and white bud. When you say 80% it sounds bad but 80% of $25 is not much, it's almost negligible. Everything is raising in cost, food, gas, sleds, groomers, drags, energy in general. You say you would expect people to stop visiting WI if they did the same. What if they like riding Wis as I do. Is beautiful there. I love the narrow twisty trails so I'll buy a permit. Am I saying I am in favor of paying more? not really but am I willing to deal with the increase as long as I see an increase in many other aspects of the industry that go hand and hand, I suppose. Am I happy about it, no less than you.

Banks, please understand this, I was referring to my buddy who is a good friend. It's not an attack and is there such as a thing as state racist? NO but I do get tired of hearing fib, cheesehead, troll. No if it is used in general conversation but when it heats up a conversation you find out where a persons heart is. You've said nothing in regards to someone thinking your prejudice. I regret saying what I said in the way I generalized, please accept my apology. If trail permits get up to $100 that would be my breaking point. I am a snow lover and ride more than most but much less miles, 500 miles this year. You guys do more than that in a weekend so me being a resident does not imply exactly how you see a typical resident, in fact, most residents in my area are the same as I. I know 70 yr old guys that ride offtrail, never buying a permit. They lived here all their lives and know the woods better than we know city streets. No need to buy a permit because thery'll be no one to ever see them riding, you knoiw what I mean?

Thanks Lenny. I am sorry as well for thinking it was me.

The survey was just a poll to see who it would change and who it would not for coming to MI. Right now it is tracking around 20% of what I would call hardcore sledders. See my previous post where I broke out some money costs from losing 20% of people in 20,000 sledders for a 3 day weekend.

As for the 80% thing. I didn't make it up it is the truth. The question permit owners and MI residents should be asking is how did the trail grooming go up 80% in the last two years or where is the money going that use to pay for it that you are not receiving anymore.

You are right the $10 isn't that much money to some people and to others it is but that is why the poll was created and right now about 20% think it is too much.

It gives us something to debate and talk about. : )