Wisconsin AB 407 / SB 343 - Snowmobile registration, trail use sticker and funding

[snobuilder]

I do the work that goes into a trail system and don't care who rides them as long as they do it respectfully. I sure as **** won't do the work and then whine about them who ride without supporting a club. Our fathers and grandfathers who built and maintained the trails before us didn't do it and whine and neither do I.
To me cap step is just more money sent to bloat the system with more administrators and over complicate the whole process which also invites corruption along the way.

 

[Attak man]

I am against any added fee through any state agency......please ......do join a club...and donate to the trail fund jugs....better yet...if u can...help brush and mark trails....NO NEW FEES!!
Let's not make our sport any more expensive than it is....I already know families who no longer ride in Michigan...because trail passes for 6 machines...puts their budget to far out of wack....think about it....gas, lodging, food....it adds up.

 

[longtrack]

Give me a break. It costs at least $500 for a weekend trip to the UP from my House in Merrill. The $135 it costs for 3 Annual Trail Stickers in Michigan is "chump change". I ordered them from MSA last Sunday and smiled as I wrote out the Check.

I bet I spend over $3000 a winter on expenses to run my Sleds and that's not counting the $180 registration for WI and MI.

1 Week out west is an additional $3000.

cost to buy my 3 Sleds and Trailer is $40000

Think about it, if you can't afford Snowmobile Trail Stickers. Try down Hill Skiing, and let me know how much the Lift Ticket costs.

 

[zozo2]

Snobuilder, I think you and I have the same playbook. I am one of those grandfathers who has done it all with the snowmobiling program, the landowners, the clubs, the stake pounders, taking our turn as club officers, and the trail builders and groomer drivers. And we don’t whine or complain because we are all snowmobilers out having fun, and as long as everyone registers their sleds and obeys the laws, that is all we want . Don’t want to loose sight of the fact that we are all equal, and we register our sleds knowing that every time a snowmobile is registered for the current two-year $30 fee in Wisconsin, that turns into about $75 into the snowmobile program to help continue our sport. We do this because we want a place to ride, and we share the snowmobiling camaraderie with others just like us. Some don’t belong to clubs so we encourage club membership, but we don’t push and push to the point that it starts to work against us. The present program works, it just needs some more money, and our kids and grandkids are right there behind us, doing what we have done, and replacing us as we move on in our ages. Our season is rapidly approaching, who cannot be a little excited right now knowing that maybe as soon as six weeks from now we can be cruising down the trails, each ride being a new adventure, and we wave (or hand signal the number of sleds following) to other snowmobilers that we meet, without knowing or becoming angry that some of them might not be club members.

 

[snobuilder]

I agree this sport is expensive if you choose to make it that way and the subject has been hashed to death on here and other sled sites, but in reality it DOES NOT have to be a rich mans sport. You can easily buy a sled for "chump change" and have a blast on it when the snow comes as my son and his friends do. These are ppl we need to keep enthused about the sport to keep it going and I say keeping it simple with one reg fee every 2 or 3 years is the way to do it. The only reason to register a sled is to ride it publicly, so why an addition hoop of then having to buy an in state trail permit as well? Leave it to politicians and there ilk to FUBAR an easy task with MORE administration!

 

[xcr440]

I think the discussion here is good.

1. Something needs to be done now, and it sounds like CAP/STEP may happen. Good or bad, its a start.

2. I like the opposition to it continuing to voice their concerns and arguments against parts of it. We need to keep those who are making these decisions fully aware that there is a large portion of us snowmobilers who think/know there are other options, that they SHOULD consider the next time a discussion is had.

The sad part is, all this time AWSC or anyone else takes to get something done, costs us money. They aren't going to give that time for free (Like those in the clubs who have been donating their time to make the trail system work). Unfortunately, there are politicians involved with anything that goes through the state.

 

[Attak man]

Give me a break. It costs at least $500 for a weekend trip to the UP from my House in Merrill. The $135 it costs for 3 Annual Trail Stickers in Michigan is "chump change". I ordered them from MSA last Sunday and smiled as I wrote out the Check.

I bet I spend over $3000 a winter on expenses to run my Sleds and that's not counting the $180 registration for WI and MI.

1 Week out west is an additional $3000.

cost to buy my 3 Sleds and Trailer is $40000

Think about it, if you can't afford Snowmobile Trail Stickers. Try down Hill Skiing, and let me know how much the Lift Ticket costs.

Wow...just get out if you don't like it?? Go skiing?? That's your answer??? So glad you have pockets full of money....good for you...lots of people don't.....keep adding expenses to their budgets and watch what happens...we should be making it easier to access our sport and get more families involved...not scare them away....it's bad enough...that the manu's don't make smaller machines for begginers, and the cheapest machines cost $8,000 dollars....but hey...don't like it....sell your machine and go skiiing.....nice answer!!! NOT!!!

 

[renegade]

His point is one day of skiing will cost you about $30 for a lift ticket. When the current registration cost was established fuel was less than a buck a gallon, now its $4! The costs of grooming equipment and sleds has doubled, materials for bridges and culverts and the cost to put them in has doubled. Legally, a club can't put in a bridge without hiring a professional if its over a trout stream or a tributary, and you would laugh at what the DNR considers a tributary! There is no way around these increased costs. If the increase costs really puts a crimp in someones budget that bad, I suggest putting one less tank of gas through each machine a family owns per year to off set this cost. Problem sovled! The current cost is over $15 a year, new costs will be $50, thats less than $35 increase, that is less then a tank of gas if you are buying non-ethanol fuels!

 

[longtrack]

That's right. One Tank of Gas in a Machine costs the same as 2 years of registration in Wisconsin. I also remember some of the complainers on this site whining about the Clubs and Trails around Tomahawk not Grooming enough. How can they Groom with out any Money to buy Fuel.

 

[Attak man]

I like the way that you look at that Longtrack...and it certainly makes it easier to swallow, when you look at it that way...however...Tomahawk's grooming problems, have nothing to due with lack of fuel...it had to do with bad luck...the club being short handed, and groomer's breaking down at in operatune times....they also have alot of new groomer drivers, who are still learning...many of the old guys who did it for years retired...I was upset about it too....and I spoke up here....but...what could they do??? biggest snow storm of the year hits (23 inches of wet heavy cement), and 2 of the groomers are broke down, and they were short handed..plus it was warm, and very tough to groom with all the traffic...they got caught with their pants down, and people were mad.....I will say...they used to pay the groomer operaters...they were all laid off heavy equipment operators (winter lay-offs)...and our trails were top notch back then....they even used to groom the lakes.

 

[xcr440]

I like the way that you look at that Longtrack...and it certainly makes it easier to swallow, when you look at it that way...however...Tomahawk's grooming problems, have nothing to due with lack of fuel...it had to do with bad luck...the club being short handed, and groomer's breaking down at in operatune times....they also have alot of new groomer drivers, who are still learning...many of the old guys who did it for years retired...I was upset about it too....and I spoke up here....but...what could they do??? biggest snow storm of the year hits (23 inches of wet heavy cement), and 2 of the groomers are broke down, and they were short handed..plus it was warm, and very tough to groom with all the traffic...they got caught with their pants down, and people were mad.....I will say...they used to pay the groomer operaters...they were all laid off heavy equipment operators (winter lay-offs)...and our trails were top notch back then....they even used to groom the lakes.

Sounds like a PERFECT opportunity for you to JOIN A CLUB and help out!!

 

[Attak man]

I am a member of two rider's clubs, and represent a local business in the business club, I have also brushed trails, and marked lakes for the club over the last 23 years....I have done my fair share to help the clubs up here....I do not have time to drive a groomer with my current job...or I would...OK??

 

[pirate]

So $20/35 more per year is really this big a issue for most of us who ride ? Really ?? It's a few #1's at Mcdonalds on the way up or a bottle of Makers Mark at the cabin one weekend . Even on a budget this is not a "cheap" sport . This cap/step idea is not a good one , but nothing else is working and it seems the higher ups , not us who ride are the real issue here . There is probably never going to be a decent solution, or one that has any common sense because we the ones with common sense, are not the ones up in Govt in charge . So either buck up and pay a few more $'s, run for office or find a diff sport .. We all ride for diff reasons, but we choose this sport for a reason and paying to play is part of it . Even if it's not the best solution . We need something to be done b4 we have no trails worth ridding ..

 

[xcr440]

I am a member of two rider's clubs, and represent a local business in the business club, I have also brushed trails, and marked lakes for the club over the last 23 years....I have done my fair share to help the clubs up here....I do not have time to drive a groomer with my current job...or I would...OK??

Perfect. Not sure why you are against a few extra bucks to the club then.

 

[Attak man]

Perfect. Not sure why you are against a few extra bucks to the club then.

I don't like the idea, and...I don't trust that the clubs are going to get the money. It's not as cut and dry as some of you seem to think. You should never be forced to pay and join something...it should be done voluntarily....kinda reminds me of the affordable care act..."you will take this, and you will pay for it"....it's not right....now ....if you want to raise the registration fee for our two year stickers....fine....but make sure it goes to the grooming fund.

 

[renegade600]

I'm not sure how this is going to work out....I for one think that there should just be a modest increase in the bi-annual sticker. An annual "use fee" in addition to the registration is just plain dumb....I also hate the stickers all over my sled.... "One fee, one registration"....

Regarding joining a club to support it. I annually support the clubs much further than what the 20 bucks will go... If I'm riding in an area, usually 10 to 20 bucks gets dropped into the donation boxes where I ride each weekend.... this way i know where my money is going, to the trails I use and ride.

This increase may be the last straw for a family that sleds on 10 YO sleds and gets out maybe 2-3 times a year.. it will get too expensive for many, I can probably think of 3-4 families I personally know that in all honesty will no longer register their sleds and just leave the sport due to the extra cost.

The sledders like me and most others will stay in the sport, but lesser number will mean another shortfall in funds that nobody will be able to figure out what happened.....

 

[Attak man]

I'm not sure how this is going to work out....I for one think that there should just be a modest increase in the bi-annual sticker. An annual "use fee" in addition to the registration is just plain dumb....I also hate the stickers all over my sled.... "One fee, one registration"....

Regarding joining a club to support it. I annually support the clubs much further than what the 20 bucks will go... If I'm riding in an area, usually 10 to 20 bucks gets dropped into the donation boxes where I ride each weekend.... this way i know where my money is going, to the trails I use and ride.

This increase may be the last straw for a family that sleds on 10 YO sleds and gets out maybe 2-3 times a year.. it will get too expensive for many, I can probably think of 3-4 families I personally know that in all honesty will no longer register their sleds and just leave the sport due to the extra cost.

The sledders like me and most others will stay in the sport, but lesser number will mean another shortfall in funds that nobody will be able to figure out what happened.....

X2....exactly...I too know alot of families too that will quit....it mean seem like chicken scratch to some of you...and I am sure you don't care (see above comments "pay or get out")....this sport is slowly gonna die.

 

[xcr440]

Well the cost of doing business, riding business, like anything else in the world is going up.

No one likes to give money to the gov't to decide how to spend "our" money, but that is the world we live in.

As stated, the extra money dropped into groomer boxes is the cleanest way to get money to the clubs.

 

[xcsp]

Found some more info, go to the link and read if you like.

http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2013/related/fe/ab407/ab407_DNR.pdf

States admin costs for the Bureau of Cust. Service & Licensing will increase @ $120,000, plus another $7500 annually for the trail permits.

Bureau of Law Enforcement has yet to determine the cost associated with the increased workload.
(Probably do no more work, but they'll grab the money.)

Why add more admin costs which takes money away from using it towards the trail system??

 

[renegade]

If you read about the increased costs on the link above, the use the word assumming way to often. The DNR now says mailing these new permits? How many will be sold by vendors and not mailed? I laugh that the DNR is worried about increased costs. I met a DNR warden twice on a Wednesday afternoon on trails near my house which gets very little traffic mid week. A brand new Yami and a Warden out patrolling when it is not necessary, wasting money. Sure there are going to be increased costs, but I'm sure there are increased costs every time they change the sticker that won't stick!

I'm sorry that you know families that will quit riding from the increased costs of registration. But there are two separate issues here, the increase in registration and how to do it. The increase is needed. If we don't, eventually grooming will be afffected by less and less grooming every year. I'm curious if you think the family you know will continue riding on non groomed trails? Cause that will be the alternative to not raising registration.