cooksend
Active member
It was so much easier 5 to 10 years ago!
Off trail coming to an end!!!
- Thread starter loriwlrc
- Start date
It was so much easier 5 to 10 years ago!
heck 10 yrs ago you could run logging roads and old snowmobile trails all day and break trail the whole time. that was a good thing that is about all my trippel 136 1.75 could handle. most of my hill-climbing back then ended up with at least 1/2 the crew digging.
but in 03 oh baby that ultra light high tech 1M 600 144 opened up a whole new word to this cowboy
See, that is my point about the new machines. Remember when there was a single track beat down on the power line, and it was all you could do to just get up some of the hills that ALREADY had a track beat down! Now the same power line (pick a power line, any power line) is beat down from tree line to tree line. Not a square inch left untouched. The new machines have quite honestly taken most of the challenge away, and its all you can do just to find something that is fun/challenging anymore. Thats why more and more people are venturing into places they shouldn't be going.
Or at least partly why anyway.
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Yes, I do believe that the off trail riders that are not doing it correctly are giving all snowmobilers a bad name, and that they are threatening the rights of all snowmobilers. Notice that I said the ones that are not doing it correctly.
Meaning they are damaging areas of private and public land or they are tresspassing. Please note that every single post that I have seen from a member of this site about damaging ares or about tresspassing, none of the JD members are tresspassing and none of them are doing any damage.
I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, and I know that not everyone on this sight has permission to ride on every piece of land they have ridden on.
Go ahead let the flaming begin, but just think about it.
From a person who wants to go offtrail, but won't because I don't know what is state land and what's private. I'm seeing the writing on the wall just like the rest of you all. I think landowners are going to have to say no to everyone now. There was a day that the landowner knew who, locally was cutting through or playing in their backyard, but now they will have no idea whose riding and whose not! And if we are starting to effect their pocket books and their compliance, forget it!!!!
Anyone want to buy a used 11 XF 800, I'm not going to be needing it next season?!
Anyone want to buy a used 11 XF 800, I'm not going to be needing it next season?!
Famousguy,
I see posts which often say JD'ers wouldn't do that. I think that some people forget that this site can be read by the public without registering and commenting. While the inner circle of JD'ers all seem to be respectfull of the sport, I am sure there are many(John would probably have an exact number) of people who just sit back and read posts. It would be easy for someone to get the wrong idea when someone posts that they rode here or there, then when they come up with their buddies say I heard of this place.... Exploring is great if your'e in an area where it's allowed. Land owners have many reasons for not wanting sleds. We need to respect that whether we agree with them or not. JMO
I see posts which often say JD'ers wouldn't do that. I think that some people forget that this site can be read by the public without registering and commenting. While the inner circle of JD'ers all seem to be respectfull of the sport, I am sure there are many(John would probably have an exact number) of people who just sit back and read posts. It would be easy for someone to get the wrong idea when someone posts that they rode here or there, then when they come up with their buddies say I heard of this place.... Exploring is great if your'e in an area where it's allowed. Land owners have many reasons for not wanting sleds. We need to respect that whether we agree with them or not. JMO
L
lenny
Guest
here is my post on p.2: it's not about stupid, it sounds like the damage that occurred was when someone trenched in and roosted out soil and whatever else the track contacted, something every off trail sledder does, some more than others including myself. Just so happens this time it was in an area where it was obvious to a landowner and they're ticked, rightfully so. It would bad if off trail closed down, on the other hand I would be moving west so,,hmmmm,,,,,tear it up boys!
Seriously, this goes right in hand with going through yards, snow banks on roads, fields over by Krupps,,,you now that I mean. At least get out to nowhere land where the whole world cant see you.
We are not claiming we have no impact on the land. If these paper companies open their land up to public usage and we use it in the summer we can fish, hunt, hike but no motorised vehicles. So if we hunt, we kill animals on the land and drag them out and in reality some sort of damage in a technical sense occurs. Ferns will be uprooted, small foliage including trees just popping up will be trampled underfoot. Same thing occurs when fishing or hiking. You have probably seen game paths which is, in a technical sense preventing something from growing and something dying. Now, I do not mention this to justify us going out there and adding to the minor damage that occurs whether it be a hunter, group of hikers, sledder etc,,,,, but rather I do mention this to illustrate the impact we do have because after the snow does away, you never would know we were there. I do have a friend that had 80 acres and allows me to ride it and he rides it himself. In the summers we hike it and the reality is that we as sledders in general tread so lightly that you would never know that were we in there in the first place. This adds to the reason the lands owners do not enforce us to stay out of there.
There has been a hugh increase in rider who venture off trail and have no clue where they are going. Many probably innocently just see it all the same and just go. We have a "sticky" thread on off trail that is a very interested read as you will find a strong resistance from many people not wanting to purchase a plat book and understand exactly who owns what and where. So, in a technical sense, yes, you are correct that many of us JD'ers do trespass but keep in mind the evolution of what I am referring to, that landowners have not been enforcing trespassing because they understand a sled does virtually no damage, but some in a literal sense that I personally do not deny but less, or for that matter unnoticeable when the land is accessible after the snow goes by the land owner. This thread was started because it appears there was a blatant violation which brings this whole point to a head. If the "unspoken" tolerant the land owner allows us by not enforcing sledders to stay out is threatened by instances like this one, than we do jeopardize this off trail "privilege" so to speak.
This growing problem, and I do call it a problem needs to be corrected by us before the landowner had enough and say "no more", "you guys have pushed us to the limit and it's easier to just say no more."
So, we are trying to continue on with our unspoken but not literal permission to be able to ride off trail. How do we educate the people who ride off trail and will not ever view this thread? It really is a delicate situation and to let it just blow over see the attention dwindle away is good start. Hopefully many will become more aware and do better is my hope. There needs to be a more personal responsibility but I see it as a growing issue. Vocal Jd'ers do not claim to be innocent but rather we take a proactive approach in preventing our unspoken tolerance to be jepordised. We try to go about the matter in a reasonable means that has allowed us to have the continual unspoken "permission." Remember, if you give a person a reason to tell you no, the no just may come. These land owners know sledders are out there but for the most part are not concerned because they see we ride on top the snow and do little to no visual damage which is in line with the public usage.
Summary: for the most part, we have not given landowners a reason to consider this as a problem. They already allow public usage and see sleds as a non-threat,,,in general because of the lack of damage we ensue on the property. They could have all along enforced the "no motorized" rule but have not for probably the reasons I mentioned above. I believe they do enforce the no motorized rules concerning ATVs and trucks if they see fit. It is solely the landowners right to enforce a law if they so wish regardless of what I or anyone else thinks. If we continue to give reason than we deserve our unspoken permission to be gone
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Not for snowmobiles but a way to deal with OHV.. imo it's the only place they belong.
http://ironrange.org/recreation/atv-ohv/
http://www.appletonmn.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={6C5214C4-473F-4C75-8A1A-D34367531B40}
Would think there is an old pit or two in the UP that could be turned into an OHV park..
fusionfool
New member
Lemmings
The problem we see now was well stated by a WI DNR official who came to on of our club meetings a few years back and described the disrespect to property as the "Lemming Effect". The Lemming Effect is where one see's snowmobile / ATV tracks, and believes it is OK to ride in that location.
For those who don't know there was / is a computer game where these little green creatures call Lemmings follow each other where every the first will go. If the first one falls off a cliff, they will all follow until there is some sort of diversion, or correction made.
It is the hardest task to divert snowmobiles / ATV's once the path has been made. The bottom line is, if you have not received permission personally, and you do not know for sure that it is OK (legal) to ride on the property, you should not be there. Just because there are tracks, or just because you see someone else doing it, does not make it right.
We live just 1/8 mile off of a trail. A few winters ago it was amazing to see how many snowmobiles we had come right up to our yard, turn around and go back out to the trail. Just because we access the trail through the back of our property on a single track path. Did not bother us, but just goes to show how the Lemming effect works.
The problem we see now was well stated by a WI DNR official who came to on of our club meetings a few years back and described the disrespect to property as the "Lemming Effect". The Lemming Effect is where one see's snowmobile / ATV tracks, and believes it is OK to ride in that location.
For those who don't know there was / is a computer game where these little green creatures call Lemmings follow each other where every the first will go. If the first one falls off a cliff, they will all follow until there is some sort of diversion, or correction made.
It is the hardest task to divert snowmobiles / ATV's once the path has been made. The bottom line is, if you have not received permission personally, and you do not know for sure that it is OK (legal) to ride on the property, you should not be there. Just because there are tracks, or just because you see someone else doing it, does not make it right.
We live just 1/8 mile off of a trail. A few winters ago it was amazing to see how many snowmobiles we had come right up to our yard, turn around and go back out to the trail. Just because we access the trail through the back of our property on a single track path. Did not bother us, but just goes to show how the Lemming effect works.
EXCESSIVE FORCE
New member
I agree with this,and that's why we no longer access the trail by crossing the neighbors property across the rd.He said we could,but we don't want other sleds to see the tracks and follow them onto his property.Now we just ride the shoulder of the rd about 1/4 mi to the trail where it crosses the rd.
I agree with this also.
Back in January we doing some climbing , and as my buddy Joe and I were at the bottom, I see a guy walk up to my buddy's son, up on top. He was with about 5 other people from what I understand, and he asks Joe's son where the trail was. WHAT? We were a minimum of about 4 miles, as the crow flies, from any trail. Joe's son said, " I don't know where the trail is" The other guy says, " where did you come from?" Emanuel points down toward us and says " down there." LMAO!
All this group did was follow tracks, not knowing where they were, or even how to get out. There were a lot of logging/skidder tracks in this area, all with sled tracks on them, very easy to get turned around. Now, if I would have been up top, I would have led them out myself. By the time Eman got back down to us, and I worked my way up, they were gone.
srt20
Active member
There is a thread on HCS Michigan about "Off trail UP pics thread". Here is 2 posts in the thread..
first: question
So how does off trail work?
Find a hole and go?
What kind of trouble can you get in?
Love to do it but we're do you start.
second: an answer
1. Ride down trail
2. See a logging road/good line through the trees
3. Turn off trail and baja your *** off
4. Pull off some sick climbs up hills and around trees
5. Get stuck and repeat multiple times
Im not an off trail rider, but this is NOT good for anybody.
first: question
So how does off trail work?
Find a hole and go?
What kind of trouble can you get in?
Love to do it but we're do you start.
second: an answer
1. Ride down trail
2. See a logging road/good line through the trees
3. Turn off trail and baja your *** off
4. Pull off some sick climbs up hills and around trees
5. Get stuck and repeat multiple times
Im not an off trail rider, but this is NOT good for anybody.
cuzzinolaf
Well-known member
Time to have some fun!
cuzzinolaf
Well-known member
That thread really annoys me SRT20. Sorry if I sound like an a$$ in it.
mrsrunningbear
Active member
So guys, the play area that I mentioned and that is being searched for is a 1000+ acres, is this still to small of a play area?? I'm seriously wondering...sorry I'm a little challenged when it comes to size
favoritos
Well-known member
It is funny that you mention this fact.
Last trip, we saw a couple of sleds pull into the motel parking lot around 10:30pm. I figured that they came off the trail and wanted a place to stay. We were only 1 block from the trail. I was wrong in my assumption in so many ways. They had a broken chaincase from bouncing off a rock, the good sled was low on gas and they were looking for gas and directions back to their room. The room was 35 miles away in the opposite direction of the gas station. They also had no idea that there were even trails in the area.
I gave them directions to the trail and specifically how to find the gas station, it was right along the trail. They did not seem interested and asked how far by riding along the road. I told them that the trail ran right beside the highway, so maybe a difference of 1/2 mile between the two choices. They took the road.
I also explained the exact route by trail back to their room. I would be surprised if they used that advice as well.
The off trail area that they were riding when they hit the rock was a closed area.