My point is that these corners are signless. Not actually covered with snow russ but I have seen that before too.
10-13 MI Snowmobile Fatalities report
- Thread starter 2TrakR
- Start date
My point is that these corners are signless. Not actually covered with snow russ but I have seen that before too.
My concern is the subjectivity in deciding what is a 90 degree turn and what isn't. I think we'd all agree that this is a 90 degree turn:
But what about this? Why or why not?
To me, although technically not a 90 degree turn, it IS a 90 degree change in direction and should be marked (depending, of course, on how sweeping the curve is which I cannot adequately demonstrate here). I've seen some that were, and many that weren't. Just my opinion, of course, and obviously those who signed the trails felt differently. And therein lies the problem: lack of consistency.
But what about this? Why or why not?
To me, although technically not a 90 degree turn, it IS a 90 degree change in direction and should be marked (depending, of course, on how sweeping the curve is which I cannot adequately demonstrate here). I've seen some that were, and many that weren't. Just my opinion, of course, and obviously those who signed the trails felt differently. And therein lies the problem: lack of consistency.
And of course part of the reason for the change was consistency...but as Lenny stated it was at his discretion to leave or remove a sign. Therefore making what is stated in the DNR handbook invalid. Major, major problem with this logic, or rather lack of.
I agree. It seems, to me, that when I started riding in the mid 90's that there was a wide variance in consistency. Over the years, that gap had narrowed to almost uniformity. Now I think we've taken a step backward, as far as consistency goes. Certainly not to the point it was back then, and I'm sure over time the bugs will be worked out, but for now, at least, there are some growing pains.
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lenny
Guest
if you have a problem with a corner call the club, we are the ones to put up signs. The dnr had indeed inspected our work and conclude it is up to par. Stop complaining and slow down,,problem solved. Up to 5 years ago the chevron sign did not exist on sled trail. We have a similar sign in the corner as we did before the chevron so maybe you gave forgot that even what you depend on is just 5 years old. We were required to have 3 arrows in a corner which is stupid as **** and was modeled after roadways. Mr.Freeze has nearly 30K miles in 4 years and and no issues. DWZ had 10k in 2 years and no problems.
Russ, consistency? R u serious, not even close. It is as consistent as can be now.
We can continue to speculate and show our displeasure but the fact remains, deaths have decreased percentage wise as has been pointed out in previous posts
Russ, consistency? R u serious, not even close. It is as consistent as can be now.
We can continue to speculate and show our displeasure but the fact remains, deaths have decreased percentage wise as has been pointed out in previous posts
Lenny, yes I'm serious. I respectfully beg to differ. Maybe things are different in your neck of the woods, but where I've ridden, it's my experience that consistency has taken a step backward. My riding this year has taken me through at least 10 different systems throughout the eastern U.P. and northern L.P.
It might be "as consistent as can be now" on paper, but I'm here to tell you that just ain't so in the places I've ridden.
It might be "as consistent as can be now" on paper, but I'm here to tell you that just ain't so in the places I've ridden.
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lenny
Guest
it was our discretion and the DNR had determined it was in line with the objective, safety and consistency. If we hand't been in line there would have been corrections as we have no authority to determine the legitimacy of the new signage. We can only interpret it as well as we can and than it is inspected.
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lenny
Guest
understood! Let me ask you this, do you ride with the mindset that the idea is bad and you are looking for discrepancies in the signage or are you riding the trail like normally and finding that these sign caused you some inconvenience or other mishap. Have you personally missed a corner? Are people riding to fast to miss a corner? Still at a loss how lack of sign can trump an ability to adjust to new conditions? No signs means we die?
5 years ago the big problem was over signage,,,, do you remember all the complaints and controversy? 3 signs in a corner, arrows for slight bends. Honestly, all you are missing now that were useful are the slight corners, bridge, although the bridges do have reflectors on them and you can see them coming up.
Do you agree that a slower speed at times will allow better decisions and prevent bad things from happening. This may not be what many call the ideal approach but it does require more from those who operate a sled and that is something good for the operator. Take the responsibility seriously and protect yourself with your own actions. No more passing the buck and blaming other. Russ, I am speaking in general on the topic now, not implying you need a lesson.
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POLARISDAN
New member
cat im curious where in mn ur riding, im western twin cities, my club trails r signed excellent, and i tried to stay off the sign thread for the most part becuz the banter was just too extreme, but we sign our own trails and our neighboring clubs are just as good, but one sign i dont see in MI is the CAUTION sign, which we use here..of course u dont have 20 foot drainage ditches up there, but i think that is a sign that shuld be used more, especially aroung the bridge gaps since they removed bridge signs altogether...
and im not sure about ur numbers, but we have averged 7 deaths here per year i believe they last 5r years, except for 2 years ago with the big snow when we hit 27 i believe
POLARISDAN
New member
wow!!!!
POLARISDAN
New member
geez dude, LIGHTEN UP..that was friggin hilarious!!!!
POLARISDAN
New member
since we r on the subject..we use CAUTION signs for those steep out of nowhere drops, and i think they r important
POLARISDAN
New member
dude, whats ur PROBLEM?
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lenny
Guest
That proves my point and tells all. You drive sign to sign and are not prepared to do what it takes to preserve your own life. No disrespect here in any way just glad you were honest enough to explain the incident. A SLOWER SPEED WOULD HAVE PREVENTED THAT. Your lucky to be alive, I bet it didn't happen again! Glad you didn't get hurt. I'll be honest also, I've done the same thing many times over the years but not in the last few and that was when the signs would have been the most in numbers. It just happens when you scootin along. We all make mistakes but the nice thing is they are preventable if we slow it down a bit. Just last week I got a bug riding by myself and just mashed the flipper through the twisties on 13 loop. That was fun hanging off the side of the sled but I follow the snow not the signs and I could not go any faster. Not because my machine wouldn't allow but because I was at my limit and the adrenaline was flowing.
I was able to ride agressivly, safely and come home alive and not bending up my sled,,,,again.
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Firecatguy
New member
agree 100times over....
see Lenny why is it called "complaining" when we dont agree with you or a select few here?
I love the logic of this "we take signs down you slow down OR DIE" hahahha great logic people will have to slow down as they wont know where there going..over time you will find people will not come to area I did for the snow and how well trails are taken care of and signed....crapy trails and no signs **** i could just go to northen mn for that....
Firecatguy
New member
polarisrider1
New member
Most definately! The steep hill signs are dumb. It is all interpretation on that one, kinda like bump or a dip sign on the road. (Geeze just fix the road!) lol. Half the time I am looking for this hill only to realize I went up it or down it miles back!
polarisrider1
New member
Pat, I don't think you understand what we are trying to say here.. That's okay. But take for example: A sign get knocked down for whatever reason, and many do. The idea is to not be reliant on the signs. the knocked down sign can not show you a curve thus if you rely on the signs you will likely blow that curve unless you are driving at a "safe" speed. What is the safe speed you ask?, simple put, "A speed you can negotiate a curve without the help of a sign.
Not sure why your so argumentive on this. Do you see any of our points on this topic?
600_RMK_144
Active member
You know there's a UFC fight tonight. Can't decide if I should get the ppv, or continue following this thread? Tuff call!!!
polarisrider1
New member
get the ppv! Would you like to give us your view on the sign topic? Your more then welcome to join in.