Mi no smoking ban starts tomorrow

[Firecatguy]

The point is its not about the smoking. We all know its a stupid, deadly habit.
How many millions of people have been killed by drunk drivers? How much property damage? How many families have been ripped apart by alchohol's effects. The government tried to fix that once--remember how that turned out? You just can't fix stupid!!
I don't have any problem with a government ban on smoking in public spaces. A bar is not a public space. You can make a decision to enter or not.
Example: You want to take your kids out for dinner. Its little Bobby's b-day. Do you go down to the local outlaw biker bar for a tombstone and a pitcher of beer, or do you go to the local family resturaunt with a non smoking section? Does the fact that the biker bar isn't catering to your needs at that paticular time, mean that he should not be allowed, by law, to run a biker bar? Its called free enterprise. You can make the choice to go somewhere else. There's no place around thats compleatly non smoking you say? Go to the grocery store. Its a public place. You can by your food without being bothered by smoke. If the market will bare compleatly smoke free bars and resturaunts, then let the market show that, not the government! Next they will ask you to hand over your favorite shotgun, you know, the one Grandpa gave you when you were 14, and while we're at it, why don't you just give us that fishing rod to. We've determined your not responsible enough to use it.

exactly.....and one thing no one has talked about....What will all these states do when the Tax money from smokes has dwindled to little or nothing as most will just quite smoking!!ask California how it going their Budget is gone looking at making Marijuana legal and taxed...mmmmm give up cigs for marijana....ok

some are taking this wrong!!Most are not bitching cuz the ban will move smokers to the out side"good idea" "smoking room would be the ticket" but it the Freedoms we loose daily.....and I say it a choice of the bar owner to be smoking or non-smoking then you will have your choice which Place you will spend your time and money!!!less government not more...
“The taxes on smoking are being used to fund education, they’re being used to fund health care, they’re being used to fund real things. Now, if we eliminate smoking, does it mean that those things go away?”

 

[polarisrider1]

exactly.....and one thing no one has talked about....What will all these states do when the Tax money from smokes has dwindled to little or nothing as most will just quite smoking!!ask California how it going their Budget is gone looking at making Marijuana legal and taxed...mmmmm give up cigs for marijana....ok

some are taking this wrong!!Most are not bitching cuz the ban will move smokers to the out side"good idea" "smoking room would be the ticket" but it the Freedoms we loose daily.....and I say it a choice of the bar owner to be smoking or non-smoking then you will have your choice which Place you will spend your time and money!!!less government not more...
“The taxes on smoking are being used to fund education, they’re being used to fund health care, they’re being used to fund real things. Now, if we eliminate smoking, does it mean that those things go away?”

I am sure the Government knows this will affect its income and it is a loss of a freedom to some, yet they are taking that risk to protect its people from a proven health risk. It is a sad state of affairs that in Michigan they had to pass a law making it illegal to text while driving. Duh!!! Why not? Isn't it a right to text? even while mowing down Pedestrians. Heck it don't even cause Cancer. I am all about "Culling the herd". "Stupid is what Stupid does". Look around. The following statement is not 100%, but a noted fact, "The lower the education level in an area the higher the smoking level". Yes some people just can't learn, I am talking about the ignorant towards learning. see a pattern yet? It's all about the governments idea of saving those who can't save themselves.

 

[russholio]

But they CAN save themselves -- they can choose not to patronize an establishment that allows smoking (if such an option were to exist).

The argument using texting while driving is comparing apples to oranges. The difference is, the people in the other cars have no option to try and avoid the texter, because they probably have no idea what he/she is doing. If an establishment could put a sign on their door (again, if such an option existed) that says "Smoking allowed -- enter at your own risk", then they have done their part to duly notify potential customers of the hazards associated with patronizing their establishment.

Quite simply, just another example of the government saving us from ourselves by making decisions for us that they think we're not intelligent enough to make on our own.

Da, Komrade!

 

[dcsnomo]

I am sure the Government knows this will affect its income and it is a loss of a freedom to some, yet they are taking that risk to protect its people from a proven health risk. It is a sad state of affairs that in Michigan they had to pass a law making it illegal to text while driving. Duh!!! Why not? Isn't it a right to text? even while mowing down Pedestrians. Heck it don't even cause Cancer. I am all about "Culling the herd". "Stupid is what Stupid does". Look around. The following statement is not 100%, but a noted fact, "The lower the education level in an area the higher the smoking level". Yes some people just can't learn, I am talking about the ignorant towards learning. see a pattern yet? It's all about the governments idea of saving those who can't save themselves.

The texting while driving is, as the previous poster says, apples to oranges. The texting while driving law does not apply to texting, it applies to driving. Driving is not a right, it is a privilege granted to you by the state because the state owns the roads (my roads, my rules). The state controls that privilege through its licensing. If you agree to have a license to drive, you agree to the terms and conditions like:
Must follow traffic laws
Must be sober
Must wear seatbelt
Must have vehicle in good working order
and now...must not be texting

 

[dcsnomo]

I am sure the Government knows this will affect its income and it is a loss of a freedom to some, yet they are taking that risk to protect its people from a proven health risk. It is a sad state of affairs that in Michigan they had to pass a law making it illegal to text while driving. Duh!!! Why not? Isn't it a right to text? even while mowing down Pedestrians. Heck it don't even cause Cancer. I am all about "Culling the herd". "Stupid is what Stupid does". Look around. The following statement is not 100%, but a noted fact, "The lower the education level in an area the higher the smoking level". Yes some people just can't learn, I am talking about the ignorant towards learning. see a pattern yet? It's all about the governments idea of saving those who can't save themselves.

This is from the CDC, slightly dated (2002)

Educational attainment has been associated consistently with adult smoking prevalence since 1983 (Figure 2). By education level, smoking prevalence was highest among adults who had earned a General Educational Development diploma (42.3%) and lowest among those with graduate degrees (7.2%). Women with undergraduate (10.5%) or graduate degrees (6.4%) and men with graduate degrees (7.8%) also had smoking prevalence rates below the overall U.S. 2010 objective. During 1983--2002, the largest decreases in smoking prevalence occurred among adults with a college degree (10.0 percentage points) and those with some college education (9.3 percentage points); those with a high school diploma (6.6 percentage points) and those with less than a high school education (5.8 percentage points) showed the smallest decreases. During this period, the gap in smoking prevalence between adults who had graduated from college and those with less than a high school education increased from 14.0 percentage points in 1983 to 18.2 percentage points in 2002 (Figure 2). Similar patterns occurred in the percentage of ever smokers who had quit among different educational groups. The percentage of ever smokers who had quit was highest for those with college degrees, followed by persons with some college education. High school graduates and those with less than high school education had the lowest percentage of ever smokers who had quit. The gap between adults with a college degree and those with less than a high school education increased from 19.0 percentage points in 1983 to 25.9 percentage points in 2002.

*****************
I chuckled at your line "I am all about "Culling the herd". Interesting perspective, makes one ask why the government should be in the business of "saving those who can't save themselves". Hmmm, guess I'm ok with that as long as in the process of being stupid they don't harm me, either physically, like a drunk driver, or financially, like making me pay the increased costs of smokers' health care through higher premiums.
Never thought of it that way....
That kinda distills why I have always been against motorcycle helmet laws, but I always wore a helmet.

 

[Skidooski]

Holy moly what a discussion topic! All I'm going to say is I know a number of people that don't smoke on a day-to-day basis but do smoke when then go to the bar with friends. As a smoker, I never understood why someone would be a part-time smoker. I would like to; and have tried every known method to man/womankind to quit smoking. Eventually I will quit. Seems like the word "choices" has less meaning as government is making them for us.

 

[booondocker]

Not try'n to be a wisealic, but if you don't buy any sigs you can smoke them. Try going to the bank every day and depositing $7.50, and watch that fund grow...then in one month go buy a new tv, toy..whatever....it works!

 

[polarisrider1]

Not try'n to be a wisealic, but if you don't buy any sigs you can smoke them. Try going to the bank every day and depositing $7.50, and watch that fund grow...then in one month go buy a new tv, toy..whatever....it works!

One of the guys I ride sleds with has done that and so far bought a new Lap top and some cool tires and rims for his truck with his first years cig. savings. He plans to fund his new Renegade Back Country the same way (roughly 3 1/2 yrs. of smokes). His wife and kids are so happy without the smoke that they encourage him to spend the money on himself as a reward. It is working.

 

[Firecatguy]

One of the guys I ride sleds with has done that and so far bought a new Lap top and some cool tires and rims for his truck with his first years cig. savings. He plans to fund his new Renegade Back Country the same way (roughly 3 1/2 yrs. of smokes). His wife and kids are so happy without the smoke that they encourage him to spend the money on himself as a reward. It is working.

if all that don't work...chantix works awesome...4years and counting...

 

[dcsnomo]

One of the guys I ride sleds with has done that and so far bought a new Lap top and some cool tires and rims for his truck with his first years cig. savings. He plans to fund his new Renegade Back Country the same way (roughly 3 1/2 yrs. of smokes). His wife and kids are so happy without the smoke that they encourage him to spend the money on himself as a reward. It is working.

So wait a minute...I quit 28 years ago. So, If I go buy a pack of Marlboros and tell my wife I have had a relapse, then quit the next day I can have $450/month to buy a new sled? Gotta go to the store......

 

[brooks]

Everyone has lots of feelings on this topic. John's post touched on some of my thoughts.

Even though the guy mortgaged his house to start his business, it is not his business and it is not private, it is the states business and it is public business. This guy went out and got a License, he is engaged in commerce, he is using federal reserve notes, and his doors are open to the public. The state can come in, inspect it, give him parameters in which to run it, and even close it down. If it was his he would make the decisions and be able to discriminate who can and can't come in.

About a year ago I was on the same page as many here. Questioning how the state can come in and tell a bar owner no smoking. I've been listening to George, lots of good info.
(http://library.georgegordon.com/audio)

My fear and question is, what is the next step? At $50/day, $18,000/year or whatever it cost, plus court cost etc....I don't want to pay to warehouse smokers, or build more prisons to warehouse them in. (That goes for a whole lot of things in which we have turned good people into criminals, and are warehousing them, but that is another topic of and by itself)

 

[Firecatguy]

So could a Bar change to A "club" charge a one time fee to get a "membership" and have a smokers club???That would be PVT....

 

[frnash]

So could a Bar change to A "club" charge a one time fee to get a "membership" and have a smokers club???That would be PVT....

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. Reminds me of a road trip some years ago when I had to spend a few days in Wichita, KS. I decided to hit the hotel bar one night for an "adult beverage" or two.

Surprise, surprise, Kansas has some of the strictest liquor laws in the US, at that time including a statewide prohibition on on-premises liquor sales. Fortunately, this event occurred after the state legislature enacted laws permitting the sale of liquor in private clubs, in 1965. Clubs were exempt from the constitutional prohibition because they were not open to the public. Thus the hotel bar was indeed a "private club", and hotel guests were entitled to a "temporary membership".

So how about "private clubs", as Firecatguy suggests, perhaps with rather loose "membership requirements", where alcoholic beverages, and possibly food is served, and smoking is allowed? Does that work?

 

[ezra]

not in Mn the nanny made sure of that.

 

[jr37]

There is a restraunt in Wausau, WI that became a club after the city went smoke-free. I think they said he was still breaking the law. As far as I know you can still smoke in that place, and I have not heard of it being fined in a while. I think that the city is just leaving him alone. I don't have all the facts on this story, but maybe someone else out there has heard of this to set the story straight.

 

[Hoosier]

So could a Bar change to A "club" charge a one time fee to get a "membership" and have a smokers club???That would be PVT....

I'm sure that "they who know what's best for everyone else" would not approve of a club that allows people who are members in it to use legal products in a legal manner on private property. This arrangement can't possibly last long. Think of the people who might HAVE to work at such a club!

 

[Hoosier]

So wait a minute...I quit 28 years ago. So, If I go buy a pack of Marlboros and tell my wife I have had a relapse, then quit the next day I can have $450/month to buy a new sled? Gotta go to the store......

That sounds like a great idea! Do that, and pick up and then quit a starbucks habit while you're at it. New sled on the way!

 

[dcsnomo]

So could a Bar change to A "club" charge a one time fee to get a "membership" and have a smokers club???That would be PVT....

Don't know for sure, but pretty sure it wouldn't work. As one of the previous posters said, it is still a place of employment. The ban is not directed solely at bars...

"As of May 1st the ban went go into effect – banning smoking in public places, including but not limited to indoor workplaces, indoor common areas of apartment buildings, restaurants and bars, shopping malls, arenas, concert halls, nursing homes and educational and health care facilities. Exceptions may be made, after meeting requirements set forth, for cigar bars, tobacco specialty retail stores and the gaming floors of casinos."

So even though the GM headquarters in Detroit is private, smoking is still not allowed. So I'm guessing that "Bob's Drinking Club" in Wetmore MI woulds still have to comply as it is a place of employment as well as a licensed business.

 

[Firecatguy]

so if you serve drinks at a Casino your heath don't matter then???

 

[ezra]

or go to a federal building.any one else remember kids smoking lounges in high school most people under 35 don't believe it.I think modern law makers would blow a gasket that would lead to a major brain aneurysm if they found out a kids were smoking at school now days.looking back on it I cant believe under age kids could smoke in school but it was standing room only between class.oh but the best part there was a pop machine but you could not buy pop from it during school hours you could pull a heater but drinking a Pepsi was over the top