Union thugs are at it again

[rocketman356]

After thumbing thru some of these posts it seems to me union employees really think they are union partners not employees.Oh just read the original article most of you dismiss.

 

[russholio]

I wouldn't necessarily call them "partners"....but an employer without employees really isn't an employer, is it? I'd say they both need each other.

Most people who have been in the military (which doesn't apply to me) or in a para-military organization (which does apply to me) will tell you that the enlisted personnel are the backbone of the organization. Good subordinates can make poor or mediocre officers look good....and lousy subordinates can make the best of officers look like hacks. I think the same theory applies to the civilian working world. It's called "teamwork".

 

[elf]

I should have pointed out in my previous post that none of the places I worked at or managed have been unionized. So the guys who were telling me to slow down and that I was working too hard were not union members. So that attitude is prevalent on both sides of the argument. Some people, both union and non-union, feel that they should be handed a paycheck just for showing up for work.

 

[indy_500]

i worked hard while in that industry. going to school to further my education and hold a job. now your meaning of "hard" maybe different, but i have worked HARD to get to where i am now, that includes being a CNC machinist.
there is a bit more detail to just having computer make something for you and then cnc make it. thats 25 yrs of experience knowing that. i carry a lot of knowledge in that field, and worked HARD for all of it.
maybe once you start to get into the working force, you can start seeing what it's ALL about.

I believe it is a hard industry to get into and that you worked hard to get into it. What I meant was it's not hard physical work, and I don't know if I could live my life doing something like that.

 

[polarisrider1]

Depressing as this thread may be, the upside is that everyone is working hard at what they post. We also get some insight at what many of you do "day to day" in the real world.

I live in a predominately non union area that pays union scale wages to prevent unions from forming. So in a sense many could be considered union without paying dues. When I bid jobs as a sub contractor some times we end up working on union sites. Porta potties are nice and most union guys don't mind us using them. lol. This is one item that non union contractors started providing because of the unions all ready having them. (trying to bring light to the subject). Most all of the safety factors the union wants us to do are by OSHA standards are good even if they slow us down some. I pay the guys by the sq. ft. so they balk a bit at hardhats, safety glasses, ear protection,etc. steel toed shoes, all items that don't work well on a tile setter. The union jobs we work on are commercial jobs. We have absolutely no union labor in residential work, by the choice of the public more so than anything. The biggest thing that bothers me about the unions and my father was in the Teamsters for 30 yrs. is that you are not allowed to work outside your job discription. If the hilo driver is on break, you wait to get your truck loaded, If the truck loading crew is done for the day you sit there until the next day if you have to get your truck loaded. If you load it yourself you are up for displinary action. If the unions would work with the companies at efficiency and as a team effort I think most of this hate and distrust for the unions would slowly go away. The unions most definately need to reinvent themselves if they wish to servive.

 

[russholio]

PR1, good points. I couldn't agree more.

 

[rocketman356]

I wouldn't necessarily call them "partners"....but an employer without employees really isn't an employer, is it? I'd say they both need each other.

Most people who have been in the military (which doesn't apply to me) or in a para-military organization (which does apply to me) will tell you that the enlisted personnel are the backbone of the organization. Good subordinates can make poor or mediocre officers look good....and lousy subordinates can make the best of officers look like hacks. I think the same theory applies to the civilian working world. It's called "teamwork".

Everyone would agree your employees make or break the "COMPANY".That is exactly why public sector unions should of never been allowed to form.Government agencies have no competition and can charge whatever for services and the union basically negotiates with itself for more.Just my thoughts and have no problem with the private sector unions until they get in my face which I have had to deal with numerous times.Now back to the partner issue after some thought about my comment ,I was wrong.Business partners share in the gains and loses.Ever think the unions would voluntarily dial back any compensation after reviewing your books that they have access to when your business suffers loses.Or join the party with the accounts receivables,lawsuits,fines and their members misdeeds ?

 

[firez10]

Ever think the unions would voluntarily dial back any compensation after reviewing your books that they have access to when your business suffers loses.Or join the party with the accounts receivables,lawsuits,fines and their members misdeeds ?

Again I am not union but our public employees union has done this the last 8yrs. I can't speak for others but the consessions that we have given over that time have seen two administrations and is working on a third and all of them keep bringing high paid friends and family in and create more special interest groups, give themselves raises of more than 30% and expect the lower employees to take the brunt of their decisions

 

[russholio]

Government agencies have no competition and can charge whatever for services and the union basically negotiates with itself for more.

Just because they ask or negotiate for more doesn't mean they get (or should get) more. I know this firsthand. Asking for and receiving are not the same thing.

Ever think the unions would voluntarily dial back any compensation after reviewing your books that they have access to when your business suffers loses.

Well, maybe this isn't quite what you're asking....but yes, when my union was asked by the city to take concessions, we did. Without putting up an argument. Said concessions include:

- a reduction in pay
- overtime (which is time and a half for us) worked would be paid at straight time and comp time (i.e., 12 hours OT would be paid at 12 hours straight time + 6 hours comp time) until the budgeted OT money ran out (which it did). So now we work OT for comp time, no pay.

And this is not the first time we've given something up when they've asked us to help. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. I have a job and I'm happy for that because too many people don't have one. All I'm saying is, there ARE public sector unions who are willing to work with their employer for the overall good of the organization. Ironically, our city manager, who is not union and who is not close to being able to retire, took his sick and vacation time payout already, in case an EFM should have to step in (in which case the CM would be out of a job). But Mr. CM, we thought the city was broke? Sure would be nice if all of us had that option.

 

[jr37]

PR 1, I agree. You made some very good points about how unions work, and that they DO need to reinvent themselves.

 

[polarisrider1]

PR 1, I agree. You made some very good points about how unions work, and that they DO need to reinvent themselves.

thank you, just another service I offer around here! lol. heck I need to go get the bikes off that sled trailer, neighbors are starting to organize. They say I have to many toys and it is just not fair. I already exceed maximum lot capacity.

 

[dfattack]

I will admit I am not in favor of unions. I have family members that are in them, my dad is a retired UW professor, my mom was a teacher, my wife works in our local school district, both of her parents were teachers and her brother works for UW and her sister-in-law is a teacher. So I am familiar with them.
All that being said there is only one person you can count on to get ahead in this world. You work hard and make it happen yourself. Growing up as the son of two educators I was taught the importance of a good education. (I was also taught to be respectful to my elders but thats another topic!) While I attended college I spent my last 2 yrs working full time on 2nd shift as a machine operator in a local injection molding facility. A depressing fact of life came to me while I was working there. the guys on 1st and 3rd shift who ran the same machine as me told me I needed to slow down as I was making them look bad and was working too hard. When I finished college I was then offered a supervisor position with this company. Was this job handed to me because of my college degree? I'm sure that helped but it was also because I had proven I would work harder than anybody else. While I was working as a supervisor I went back to college and got my MBA at night. So I was working 10-11 hr days and then going to school for 3 hrs a night 2-3 nights a week. After finishing my MBA I moved to a Project Manager position, then an Operations Manager position, and now finally a Plant Manager position. None of this was handed to me by an outside organization, I busted my butt to get where I am. So now I guess I am that fat cat, highly paid republican with the new truck (although it's only a F150) that Indy dis likes. But I also work 10-11 hr days, (right now it's Saturday morning and I've been at my desk since 6:30), I travel for work (on my time) I do work at home from time to time, I have sleepless nights worrying about issues, and I shoulder a big responsibility for everybody who works in my plant to help keep it profitable so we all have jobs long into the future.
I guess my point is, I didn't rely on an outside organization to get me where I am or to bargain for me. And I know what it's like to work on the production floor. If you are willing to work hard, harder than everybody else, you don't need a union to take care of you.

Another quick note on unions. My wife works part time as a Para Professional at our kids school, It's a great part time job as she gets summers off and all holidays off with our kids so no need for day care or anything. Unfortunately it is a unionized position (my wife could care less about the union) and the union is battling with the school board right now about their contract. They are complaining because they don't get health insurance. The funny part is they all know there was no insurance when they took the jobs as they are all considered part time jobs. They also complain that other districts pay more for their para professionals. Then go work at other districts.
It's ridiculous, they complain about how other districts, within 15 miles, get more but none of them are willing to go work there.
If you aren't happy with your job or feel you should get paid more, then go find someplace that you will be happy. It's not my job to make you happy, it's my job to give you a clean safe place to work.

Amen

 

[dfattack]

Elf, nice post. Makes a lot of sense and it sounds like you were raised with a good set of values. If more people in this country lived by your example, we'd probably all be better off.

I've learned much from this thread, from both sides of the aisle. As I've said in previous posts, though I belong to a union I'm neither avidly nor blindly pro-union. I do think there are some who have definitely overstepped their bounds, in some cases. But, I don't believe it's fair to label them all as bad and I do think they have their place, which is this: to help ensure that employees have a clean, safe place in which to work, for a fair wage (note I say "fair" and not "premium"). I don't believe the union should have more power than the employer, but conversely, I don't believe the employer should be able to rule employees with an iron fist. If they do, then the employees should be able to have a voice to speak up for them -- peacefully, not with thuggery. Many of you have stated that your employees have no need for a union because you pay them fairly and treat them well, and that's great, sincerely. But please recognize that not every employer views its personnel the same way you do.

Is it December yet?

If the employer is ruling the company with an iron fist and the employees don't like it...quit. The employer acting as you're suggesting will not be in business for too long. If you poll some of the oldest successful businesses out there one common denominator is how they treat their employees. That's probably one of the biggest arguments I hear from union people that I don't get. Why fight or demand from bosses who don't know how to treat employees good? Just leave. Find another job. If you are fighting or demanding things from the boss or have an outside agency fighting for you, you are just creating even more animosity between employee and employer and in fact my prolong the employer from going out of business. I'd rather have the boss go out of business due to lack of employees that will work for him. All the pieces to the puzzle need to be in place to be successful. No dedicated employees...no successful business.

 

[EXCESSIVE FORCE]

I don't know what all the crying is about.........It seems to me that the liberals embraced the idea of sharing of the load by everyone when Obama ran on the idea,and they "voted" (more thug tactics with voter intimidation/fraud at the polls)him in office. Just sayin'......

 

[russholio]

Why fight or demand from bosses who don't know how to treat employees good? Just leave. Find another job.

In a perfect world, good advice. But often, far easier said than done.

 

[superski]

"If you are unhappy quit and find another job"
Sure go ahead quit, give up your vacation, 401K, move the family, sell the house, start over and go without health insurance for 30-90 days. I worked for a few companies that started out good, were sold one or more times, and had various management changes and ended up being poor places to work. Each time this happened the conditions changed because of greed in upper management - having the best business year in a 20 year company history and setting a next year business plan 20% higher, then blaiming the workers for it not happening.
Now a days most businesses know that if you are 45 or older they can kick ya in the nuts and rape your wife before you'll quit because it's almost impossible to find another job. So NO, don't organize and stick up for your rights, safety, dignity, or a better wage just quit - thats usually what the company wants anyway because they'll hire someone younger for less that they don't have to pay 4 weeks vacation for.
When you young guys go to work look around the office and see how many older faces you see - if you don't see many ask yourself "what are my chances of future employment here are ?" I know there are alot of corporate offices that I have visited where you have to look real hard to find 50+ year old employees. Then ya have our elected officials that want to push out social security to 70, where the **** are ya gonna work ? Seems the only place ya can work until then is as a congressman. I gotta ask myself if being an elected official is that hard of work because if you are working in the private sector by the time your 70 you've been shoved out or they're feeding through a straw.

 

[ezra]

that the speach they gave at the last pep rally? bs if you are good at what you do your skills are in demand if you are 50+ wont matter.if you are a avarage underachever your falt deal with it you get what you put in.most people in this country dont start to make real money till they get to 40 or over takes at lest that long to acuire the skill and know how to be at the top of your field.

 

[dfattack]

Superski,

Maybe your anger could be getting in the way?

I'm not going to type out the steps to take to get another job. Of course, plan it out. Don't move. Secure the job before leaving. Give plenty of notice and don't burn any bridges. Tell the bosses you just wanted to try something different. This happens to me often. Usually they come back because they had it better working for me.

Sometimes some people need to hear others suggest things they were thinking about doing but were uneasy doing it. If they see it working for other people, they might think they could do it too. Its a form of encouragement.

Now go be happy

 

[cat_man_mike]

and I have worked Alaska fishing boats every summer from when I was 9 till 20 and I guarantee no boat in the fleet would pass a OSHA test.the drug abuse alone would make most uninsurable if people were not turning a blind eye.and dont think there are many millionaire deck hands some yrs 100k or more some 20k

I have a friend that works in the Coast Guard in Alaska. He would beg to differ with you. I call Bu**s***

 

[cat_man_mike]

Obviously based on my previous posts I'm not pro-union leadership. However in this case, the company should pay the fine (since they are ultimately accountable for the actions of their employees) the union should NOT pay any fine and the employee should be disciplined based on whatever published company policy he or she broke.

x2!!!!!!! That is the way it woks with the companies I have worked for. If there is a violation on the jobsite where saftey equpt. was supplied by the company, the offender and foreman are both fired.