wiviperman
Active member
100% agree with this! With Hospitals actually making more money due to the way things are "coded" there definitely is a difference between died from COVID or "with" COVID.
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100% agree with this! With Hospitals actually making more money due to the way things are "coded" there definitely is a difference between died from COVID or "with" COVID.
wiviperman
Active member
I definitely will not be getting the vaccine. I spoke with a cabinet maker around 2010 that got a "bad" strain of the FLU vaccine & spent over a month in the hospital and nearly died multiple times while there. Pretty much has "sealed the deal" for me on that.(I had not ever got the FLU vaccine at that point, but was thinking of it as my employer offers it free of charge.)
I'm not "knocking" anyone that wants to get it, you do you & what works best for you. As for me, I will take my chances!
I'm not "knocking" anyone that wants to get it, you do you & what works best for you. As for me, I will take my chances!
heckler56
Active member
<br><br>Agree. Another area the data falls apart is positive tests. My wife had to test 3 days prior to her surgery. If she was positive, they wait 10 days and in she goes with no retest. So does it now only last 10 days versus 15 vs 30? And you automatically given a get out of jail free? Which brings me to when they once tracked recoveries. So no follow up tests were given to people that tested or had symptoms. As the data was provided here in Michigan back in summer, the math didn’t match up to positive cases assuming a recovery after 30 days to declare someone recovered. So people recovered after 45 days to 2 months.<br><br>So if positive cases is a ongoing accumulation of positive tests how can you determine active cases without retesting? It doesn’t matter Because presenting total positive tests is far more compelling and dramatic than understanding active/ongoing cases. Scare tactics.<br><br>Which gets us to today, now the media and politicians talk to “doses” administered which supports their theme/agenda. Look how great we are now and fulfilling our prophecy to the people. <br><br>I learned about quantitative methods back in college. Hence my understanding it truly is garbage in garbage out. You can use it to support both sides and no matter which way you look at it we are presented with an embellishment of the data to support whatever they want the masses to believe.<br>
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mezz
Well-known member
In all actuality, the "correct count" is really irrelevant. 560,000 deaths vs lets say 300,000. Really? My question is, how many deaths does it take before we will react to not only preserving our own health & welfare much less that, all those around us, not to mention immediate family? Despite the so called accuracy of the death count, we should all be diligent in preserving life as we knew it. This has me wondering where our alliances are when it comes to an issue of global concern much less our very own. We support our local business, friends, neighbors, & fellow snowmobilers in times of crisis. I hate to say it, but this pandemic situation is no different. We need to be diligent for all of our sake, because without the aforementioned, we would have nobody to support for any reason, nobody. Peace out. -Mezz
Please explain the "coded" comment to me. Are you seriously suggesting that there is a "covid" box that a hospital checks to get paid a bounty?
Hi Lenny!
Been staying out of this, but something for you to think about, and remember, I was a market research dweeb by trade.
You cannot use your survivability rate of 99.whatever% as a projectible predictor. Why Not? Because it is the result of current behavior, i.e. offices closed, airplanes not flying, schools closed, masks, etc. These are known as "causal factors". If you change the causal factors, as in open the economy, you will get a different result. Therefore, you can only project your survivability rate maintaining current behavior. Change the behavior and the test rate is no longer projectible.
This post is not endorsing one course of action over another, just reminding people that a change in behavior yields a different result, thus negating the projectibilty of the initial result.
Hope you and all are well, Lenny.
Been staying out of this, but something for you to think about, and remember, I was a market research dweeb by trade.
You cannot use your survivability rate of 99.whatever% as a projectible predictor. Why Not? Because it is the result of current behavior, i.e. offices closed, airplanes not flying, schools closed, masks, etc. These are known as "causal factors". If you change the causal factors, as in open the economy, you will get a different result. Therefore, you can only project your survivability rate maintaining current behavior. Change the behavior and the test rate is no longer projectible.
This post is not endorsing one course of action over another, just reminding people that a change in behavior yields a different result, thus negating the projectibilty of the initial result.
Hope you and all are well, Lenny.
If I understood my nurse friend correctly, yes, they created a new code to be used on the death chart for "Covid".
Ok, the claim made in the other post said hospitals get paid extra for checking the box. So, checking the box pays a bounty, which I find very hard to believe.
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indy_500
Well-known member
My perfectly healthy great aunt finished getting her 2nd dose of the vaccine within the past week or 2 and is currently hospitalized after fainting and passing out a couple days ago. Doctors won’t give us squat for information on what is wrong. She is truly confused as to what happened because she was one of the healthiest ~80 year olds you’d ever meet. She was moved to a rehab center and there’s a chance she may not make it through, saddest part is due to covid protocols she has to “quarantine” there for 14 days before anyone can visit her and like I said there’s a chance she may not make it... Not my only vaccine story for the week either... Girfriends coworker has a 78 year old neighbor who most would think she is 55. Apparently the coworker even goes on runs with this 78 year old, she’s that healthy. She got her 2nd dose I believe she said Monday or Tuesday and passed away yesterday due to an infection from the vaccine, she’s from the Neenah area. Won’t hear it on the news though and it’s so unfortunate the countries entire narrative has switched to push this vaccine down our throats. These 2 events have sealed the deal for me, and I will NOT become someone’s guinea pig. We’ve been dealing with this scamdemic for a year now and if you made it this long without “getting covid” chances are you have the antibodies in your system already and should be getting tested to see if you do indeed have them before even THINKING about jumping in line for this unproven vaccine... Sorry if my comments come off as harsh but I don’t know how to word how I feel about this at the moment in any other way... Know what’s even worse than hearing this news? The fact that I don’t even personally know a single person who has died from or even was hospitalized with any symptoms worse than a common cold because of “covid” in the past year.
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Well that narrative sure ain't very encouraging, says this 80 year old!
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lenny
Guest
Hey old buddy! I’m doing great and I hope you be are also. I’m not 100% sure I understand what your saying, here’s why. The 99.7% figure is for those who become infected. It’s not a percentage of who may become infected. So what the CDC is saying is that if anyone under 70 gets COVID-19, they have a 99.7% chance of surviving. In this case, behavior is irrelevant because the focus of the referenced percentage is based on health, not the risk of catching the virus. Hope this helps buddy! Are you still over in Door county?
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lenny
Guest
Hey Mezz.
At first glance, your perspective seems attractive but please allow me to offer my perspective. Let’s talk mitigation. Typically in America, when we are sick, we are for the most part diligent in protecting others. We stay home from work. We stay away from going out to see family so we don’t get others sick. We wash hands and literally do our best to not get others sick. What I just described is the typical approach BEFORE COVID. Now that COVID is here, we added masks and mass shut downs. The collateral damage is immense and staggering. When we compare shut downs to open states or countries, the open populations fare as well or better than the shut down populations. So you add all the collateral damage for no gain in preventing deaths. Do you see the problem we create?
Yes, it sounds proper and nobel but in reality, unlimited lockdown only adds to the destruction. The single most important factor in this whole scenario in the individuals health prior to infection. Unlimited lockdown is literally a violation of human right and for this reason, the courts are siding with the citizens, not those who abuse authority and subject citizens to tyranny.
Summary; unproven mitigation only compounds the damage and causes disastrous unintended consequences. The best way to handle this is to protect the vulnerable, reach heard immunity as fast as possible with the least amount of collateral damage. Looking at the states and countries that didn’t shut down clearly indicate that there is no advantage to limit activity of the entire population.
indy_500
Well-known member
While your presumption sounds naturally sensible, whose to really say that all of the aforementioned factors truly helped the cause? If you compare covid cases & deaths of states who had very low restrictions like Florida for example, they fared a lot better than many states like New York who were practically locked down Marshall law style for awhile... This entire thing is new to everyone, I get it, but there is no factual information proving that masks, lockdowns, and social distancing help anything but pushing off the inevitable for a little bit of time... This thing is a virus that’s not going to disappear today, tomorrow, next year, or even for this next decade. Do I wish it would? Heck yeah but continuing to destroy the economy that every last American should want to see thrive at the cost of a virus that is 99.7% survivable just seems extremely backwards. Many Americans have lost their jobs due to this unfortunate ordeal, in turn losing their income AND their way of life. The cost of many necessities have skyrocketed to the point many have had to cutback on doing things they love because they simply can no longer afford to do it. Let’s also think about the effect of for example, the cost of lumber. Prices have quadrupled. The American dream of many, to build a new home, has now gone out the window for most. Experts don’t believe the prices will ever come down again either. Did this just affect potential new home buyers? NO what about the builders trying to make a living? How do you make a living when nobody can afford to build new homes? All of these things happened over the mass panic over a 99.7% survivable virus. I realize I’m starting to get a little off topic over the vaccine, just some excellent food for thought in my opinion...
On the contrary, pertaining to the vaccine, I had read that there have been over 1500 Americans who have died from vaccine complications so far. Do I know for certain that number is factual? I do not. But let’s say the information I read is true. Those 1500 people have survived a 99.7% survivable virus thus far. Let’s apply that 99.7% number to those individuals. 1495 should have survived the virus HAD they contracted it. 5 would have passed. For all we know the 1500 could’ve been people in somewhat poor health to begin with? We will never know unfortunately.
Everybody’s situation is different and we all have to respect that, I’m just trying to give my input on the matter for others to look at from possibly a different angle.
Another tidbit I’d like to share, is that I have been a fortunate one so far. I have not missed a minute of work due to the matter, am still working 48 hrs a week, with 150 other maskless people, I have hardly changed a thing in my daily life, even eating out at restaurants probably MORE often than before, which is enjoyable to be surrounded by other smiling people. Was also surrounded by thousands of different people at baseball tournaments all last summer coaching. Have yet to contract it. Where am I going with this? Will everyone be as lucky as me? No. Do I expect others to live the way I do since I’m doing fine? Absolutely not, but that should be the greatest part about us all living in America! Ok I’ll stop rambling now... I blame the pain meds from my knee surgery today!
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Well why else would they put the code on the person? Just for the CDC to count? Someone else said it above: follow the money. Why would they create a “Covid” bill to help people if there is no way to collect money?? You find that hard to believe?? Where have you been the last 12 months?? Hospitals were and still are getting $$ for each Covid case.
goofy600
Well-known member
Lenny, I will have to disagree with you on your post where you said people did there diligence when sick in the past and stay home, in all my years of work most will go to work sick because they can’t afford to take a day off or it’s harder to get caught up or better yet I rather use sick days for vacation days not being sick! Now maybe they will avoid family but not work unless they are on their death bed. Now maybe with what has happened people will actually respect others when they are sick and stay home instead of bringing it to work or even better sending there sick kids to school because they don’t want to stay home and use a sick day.
X2, you said it all! Stated perfectly!