snow_monkey
New member
I would rather watch the weather channel or another episode of american pickers!!!
Occupy Wall Street???
- Thread starter whitedust
- Start date
windingtrailgal
Active member
I stayed out of this just because it makes my head hurt. DC and ezra and Lenny and everyone else have so many valid points...but the winner of the best quote is:
jonesin with - "our founding fathers would be shooting already!"
I live in a VERY liberal community - there is no black and white with the people I live amongst. I know that I am 'one of these things is not like the other.' I read many different views and opinions before I make up my mind. I classify myself as a Libertarian with no party. I am sure that a liberal living in a 95% conservative place would feel the same way I do. But it's good to have to sit and listen to it...to a point. When they are all going to the same websites and can quote those same websites back to each other, what have they learned?
My neighbor stating to me "But the government HAS to make decisions for people because people don't always know what's best for them" isn't just a difference of opinion - it's a difference in a fundamental way of thinking.
This has been an incredibly informative thread. Understand this tho - the liberals think of snowmobilers as stupid hicks who are contributing to the destruction of the environment. If I tried to point out to my mom/neighbor friends the value of this discussion, they would scoff at me. I grew up in a small town - I'd classify it as conservative in hindsight. I NEVER heard the dismissive, enlightened tone from the mixed blue collar/white collars who drove to STL or stayed local people in my town as I hear from the people I live amongst. There is no 'agreeing to disagree' around here. They are the ones who are educated and correct. If one were to disagree with them (say maybe me?) they'll listen with polite, pursed lips and move on. (.org) (ha ha) They have no concept of who the 'they' are that don't agree with them and dismiss them as being uneducated and unenlightened.
I read their FB posts...I read what I read on line. I waited for the news to grab hold of this story and wondered why they hadn't yet? Well, they have now. My take on that? All of the biggies - CBS, NBC, ABC - are corporations and BIG ones. They have people to answer to. The people reporting the news have to answer to them. They tread lightly on a subject they weren't sure how it was going to go. Then they couldn't ignore it any longer.
Here in the Chicagoland area? They have some well educated folks they interview. They don't put the "hippy like folks" on TV. I try not to watch the local news - but bigdaddy likes to see what's up with the weather and he can tolerate all the rest of the crap - but i did watch the segment last night where the 'protesters' were complaining about their arrests....talking about their 'rights' and the Constitution. The segment kind of took them to task on how wrong they were with their complaining about how 'wronged' they all were.
My take on the difference between this and the Tea Party movement is exactly what someone prior stated - sorry, it was a lot to read to go back and find it now but probly DC - was that the Tea party was organized and then got people elected. When I first heard about the Tea Party stuff, I was thinking these are just plain old people like you and me out there saying 'enough is enough!' When I first heard about the OWS stuff, I was thinking the same thing. I don't think it's the same thing at all anymore.
What frightens me? The 'same' movement in Europe is all about Anti Capitalism. That's what their signs are stating. Ours? The watered down version because, perhaps, they know that anti capitalism rhetoric won't fly with the masses?
I ask myself this...who would run for a political office? Who wants to be a CAREER politician? Who would want that kind of life? The left is just as guilty as the right of the enormous dollars that go to fund a political campaign and a career. On either side? DC makes some great points - let's elect him. Lenny makes some great points - let's elect him. Ezra too...etc etc etc. but none of the people on this site are going to run for office because none of them would WANT to. Political office was never meant to be a career...just a representation of the people...so that why I picked jonesin's quote as the best o the bunch!!!
Keeping the thread alive?!
jonesin with - "our founding fathers would be shooting already!"
I live in a VERY liberal community - there is no black and white with the people I live amongst. I know that I am 'one of these things is not like the other.' I read many different views and opinions before I make up my mind. I classify myself as a Libertarian with no party. I am sure that a liberal living in a 95% conservative place would feel the same way I do. But it's good to have to sit and listen to it...to a point. When they are all going to the same websites and can quote those same websites back to each other, what have they learned?
My neighbor stating to me "But the government HAS to make decisions for people because people don't always know what's best for them" isn't just a difference of opinion - it's a difference in a fundamental way of thinking.
This has been an incredibly informative thread. Understand this tho - the liberals think of snowmobilers as stupid hicks who are contributing to the destruction of the environment. If I tried to point out to my mom/neighbor friends the value of this discussion, they would scoff at me. I grew up in a small town - I'd classify it as conservative in hindsight. I NEVER heard the dismissive, enlightened tone from the mixed blue collar/white collars who drove to STL or stayed local people in my town as I hear from the people I live amongst. There is no 'agreeing to disagree' around here. They are the ones who are educated and correct. If one were to disagree with them (say maybe me?) they'll listen with polite, pursed lips and move on. (.org) (ha ha) They have no concept of who the 'they' are that don't agree with them and dismiss them as being uneducated and unenlightened.
I read their FB posts...I read what I read on line. I waited for the news to grab hold of this story and wondered why they hadn't yet? Well, they have now. My take on that? All of the biggies - CBS, NBC, ABC - are corporations and BIG ones. They have people to answer to. The people reporting the news have to answer to them. They tread lightly on a subject they weren't sure how it was going to go. Then they couldn't ignore it any longer.
Here in the Chicagoland area? They have some well educated folks they interview. They don't put the "hippy like folks" on TV. I try not to watch the local news - but bigdaddy likes to see what's up with the weather and he can tolerate all the rest of the crap - but i did watch the segment last night where the 'protesters' were complaining about their arrests....talking about their 'rights' and the Constitution. The segment kind of took them to task on how wrong they were with their complaining about how 'wronged' they all were.
My take on the difference between this and the Tea Party movement is exactly what someone prior stated - sorry, it was a lot to read to go back and find it now but probly DC - was that the Tea party was organized and then got people elected. When I first heard about the Tea Party stuff, I was thinking these are just plain old people like you and me out there saying 'enough is enough!' When I first heard about the OWS stuff, I was thinking the same thing. I don't think it's the same thing at all anymore.
What frightens me? The 'same' movement in Europe is all about Anti Capitalism. That's what their signs are stating. Ours? The watered down version because, perhaps, they know that anti capitalism rhetoric won't fly with the masses?
I ask myself this...who would run for a political office? Who wants to be a CAREER politician? Who would want that kind of life? The left is just as guilty as the right of the enormous dollars that go to fund a political campaign and a career. On either side? DC makes some great points - let's elect him. Lenny makes some great points - let's elect him. Ezra too...etc etc etc. but none of the people on this site are going to run for office because none of them would WANT to. Political office was never meant to be a career...just a representation of the people...so that why I picked jonesin's quote as the best o the bunch!!!
Keeping the thread alive?!
On that subject, the following seems to be of value.
Maybe it is time.
THIS IS HOW YOU FIX CONGRESS!!!!!
Last edited:
Firecatguy
New member
looks like the Big O is giving theses guys a way out of school loans!!!looks like the working man gets to pay for them to go to school and sit in park!!!!great I will work another 14hr day today just so they can riot and cause more money issues....Riots in LA last night from the OWS group, the MN OWS group said today they will be heard so now what fire,rocks wreck a police car or two? they have done nothing here but f with the police and cause a mess in a public place and we flip the bill to clean it up....sad sad sad
Firecatguy
New member
fix what?
http://www.rollcall.com/issues/57_4...T=rollcall:e11154:80067576a:&st=email&pos=eam
it will never happen they seem to have a right to privacy when they are bending us over!!!!!
http://www.rollcall.com/issues/57_4...T=rollcall:e11154:80067576a:&st=email&pos=eam
it will never happen they seem to have a right to privacy when they are bending us over!!!!!
snowdancer
New member
That was certainly an interesting read, firecatguy. But I am sure there are stories just
as disturbing that pertain to Repub. senators & congressmen. As Boondocker stated
above you are either "bought and paid for", or you are out in one term if your interests
are for the good of the people. Very sad. The Congressional Reform Act of 2011, #'s 6&7 MIGHT put an end to a lot of these behaviors. Who knows? It certainly is a step in the right direction. I copied and pasted and sent to everyone I know, and asked them to forward also.
I would also like to thank John for allowing the post to continue. I learned a lot from this, and I am glad so many people participated in an intelligent manner.
I had not heard of the reform act of 2011 before, so I would also like to thank frnash for posting this. Although I am not sure how we will EVER get it enacted, because I do not think any congressmen will want to put it out there. The one or two honest ones will surely be shown to the door the minute they speak of this reform!
as disturbing that pertain to Repub. senators & congressmen. As Boondocker stated
above you are either "bought and paid for", or you are out in one term if your interests
are for the good of the people. Very sad. The Congressional Reform Act of 2011, #'s 6&7 MIGHT put an end to a lot of these behaviors. Who knows? It certainly is a step in the right direction. I copied and pasted and sent to everyone I know, and asked them to forward also.
I would also like to thank John for allowing the post to continue. I learned a lot from this, and I am glad so many people participated in an intelligent manner.
I had not heard of the reform act of 2011 before, so I would also like to thank frnash for posting this. Although I am not sure how we will EVER get it enacted, because I do not think any congressmen will want to put it out there. The one or two honest ones will surely be shown to the door the minute they speak of this reform!
michaeladams
New member
me? i like the guy who has trouble raising the most money as he is in the fewest pockets
Keeping the thread alive?!
That is a very interesting read and there was quite a few interesting points in there. The discussion about the protests in Europe is what scares me. Over there, they are dialing down the welfare state just a touch because they are running out of money, and certain of the population that was raised to live on the system isn't very happy about it. My fear is that a certain part of the population here is starting to develop that same mindset.
You also made some great point by discussing the career politicians. That is a huge problem, in my view, and has infected both parties. Like you referenced, if you took people that posted on this thread with differing viewpoints (you mentioned dc, lenny and ezra, all of whom seem to come at this from a different angle), I don't doubt that they would be more effective than the clowns and parasites we have now who get elected and stay in power for a career.
booondocker
New member
I stayed out of this just because it makes my head hurt. DC and ezra and Lenny and everyone else have so many valid points...but the winner of the best quote is:
jonesin with - "our founding fathers would be shooting already!"
...I read what I read on line. I waited for the news to grab hold of this story and wondered why they hadn't yet? Well, they have now. My take on that? All of the biggies - CBS, NBC, ABC - are corporations and BIG ones. They have people to answer to. The people reporting the news have to answer to them. They tread lightly on a subject they weren't sure how it was going to go. Then they couldn't ignore it any longer.
Here in the Chicagoland area? They have some well educated folks they interview. They don't put the "hippy like folks" on TV. I try not to watch the local news - but bigdaddy likes to see what's up with the weather and he can tolerate all the rest of the crap - but i did watch the segment last night where the 'protesters' were complaining about their arrests....talking about their 'rights' and the Constitution. The segment kind of took them to task on how wrong they were with their complaining about how 'wronged' they all were.
My take on the difference between this and the Tea Party movement is exactly what someone prior stated - sorry, it was a lot to read to go back and find it now but probly DC - was that the Tea party was organized and then got people elected. When I first heard about the Tea Party stuff, I was thinking these are just plain old people like you and me out there saying 'enough is enough!' When I first heard about the OWS stuff, I was thinking the same thing. I don't think it's the same thing at all anymore.
What frightens me? The 'same' movement in Europe is all about Anti Capitalism. That's what their signs are stating. Ours? The watered down version because, perhaps, they know that anti capitalism rhetoric won't fly with the masses?
I ask myself this...who would run for a political office? Who wants to be a CAREER politician? Who would want that kind of life? The left is just as guilty as the right of the enormous dollars that go to fund a political campaign and a career. On either side? DC makes some great points - let's elect him. Lenny makes some great points - let's elect him. Ezra too...etc etc etc. but none of the people on this site are going to run for office because none of them would WANT to. Political office was never meant to be a career...just a representation of the people...so that why I picked jonesin's quote as the best o the bunch!!!
Keeping the thread alive?!
TrailGal....good post.
As for network news, it is NOT news, but sensationalism designed to sell advertising....if news comes out in an unbiased form...it is truly an accident.
Snippets of slanted takes on what is happening is the norm. One needs to digest the news from many sources to even have a CHANCE of understanding what is happening....mainly because objective reporting is for the most part, dead. Journalism should be struck from the dictionary....sadly.
Here is what irks me!
We Americans need to take it upon ourselves to learn what is correct, and closer to the truth and then call out those associated broadcasts and news reports that have little truth or are so far leaning left or right that they no longer can be used as any credible source for reporting.
We take time to go to the bathroom...cause we have to and we take time to eat because we have to and we get up and go to work because we have to but we spend....as a mass, little time trying to understand the truths...so we can be informed, and so that we can make better decisions.... and as a society, we should grade ourselves...and right now we are failing. We elect people because they are black, or popular, or dare I say it....name recogition only...(got to go wash my mouth out with soap)!
We owe it to our grandkids, and we owe it to those who have died so that we can have these rights. We have the best system in the world, but that doesn't mean that it can't crumble and fall apart because of complacence, and laziness.
Teach our children that taking the time to find out is as important as eating or drinking or going to bed. Once we take for granted the rights we have to protest on wall street, or to elect a representative because they believe we are borrowing against the future of our country, or because we don't understand the powers of the federal reserve, or a thousand different things, THEN WE ARE ON THE ROAD TO COLLAPSE.
Discussions such as this one help serve that goal and are important. It is what makes our country great and is also fundamental in providing many different view points of a topic.
The more the better.....
Remember that when you have 'DECIDED' that because you are liberal, conservative, or anything in between you have closed your mind.
And that is the most dangerous process in the world. Just like learning something new, your "position" should be fluid and renewed each day. And if not....do everyone a favor and go fishing on election day!
windingtrailgal
Active member
And the guy who has trouble raising the most money is raising millions. Why aren't these OWS protesting the $35,000-$50,000 per plate dinners that are held for Obama? And I'm singling him out because he's the president. He's the president who is going around the country talking about putting people back to work - following the FDR model which, sure, kept people from starving and got a lot of crap built in this country that needed to get built - but with the dollars of the rich, working, tax paying American people. The manufacturing of goods for England for their war effort is what pulled us out of the Depression then our own war machine manufacturing...not all of the programs that FDR put in place making government huge. And there isn't a program that's been eliminated since it's been implemented.
I like the millions spent on the signs that state "This road brought to you by: the Reinvestment Act" or something like that. Projects that were started and funded BEFORE this act...but they needed a new sign that cost me a few thousand dollars a pop.
And if I hear about Europe or Canada's FREE medical system again, I'm gonna puke. Nothing is FREE. They pay one way or another. The problem in America is we have 2-10 times the population, depending on your country for comparison. Single country socialism wasn't cutting it in Europe so they went for the bigger pool of all of Europe to try and save themselves from the weight of Socialism. Not working out so well. And they're protesting Capitalism??
Nash always gives good homework assignments. Am gonna go read up on this reform act. Am most interested in who presented this bill to congress...
My neighbor lost his job after 32 years with Columbia University. 2 years away from retirement. They gave him 2 weeks severence pay after 32 years. He now has 3 part time jobs. He classifies himself as a pinko commie...but I don't see him protesting down there with everyone else. He's too busy working his part time jobs. And can one protest their dire situation with an i-phone, i-pad and mac book?
Good points by snowdancer and boondocker...we keep on giving out more information to chew on...but I'm thinking I'm gaggin!
windingtrailgal, glad you joined the discussion!
Your comment about raising money for elections is something that bothers me too, not the raising of the money but the amount spent on elections. It feels to me that they are literally buying elections. I believe Owebama outspent McCain by 730 million to 330 million on the 2008 election only to win by a few percent, I read they estimate this coming election will be twice that, 2-3 billion for an election, its out of control!
Your comment about raising money for elections is something that bothers me too, not the raising of the money but the amount spent on elections. It feels to me that they are literally buying elections. I believe Owebama outspent McCain by 730 million to 330 million on the 2008 election only to win by a few percent, I read they estimate this coming election will be twice that, 2-3 billion for an election, its out of control!
Right or wrong, originally the founding fathers decided that only landowners could vote. Certainly there might have been some biases involved there, but I believe the primary intent of this stipulation was so that only the knowledgeable were able to vote. I don't believe that being a landowner is necessarily relevant today, but I do believe the ignorance of the general voter is one of the root causes for the issues in this country right now. I have no idea how to fix that problem that on a large scale basis. I can teach my own kids how to think and formulate opinions for themselves, and I can keep up on issues for myself, but I don't know how the country goes about getting people to be more interested in the critical issues than they are in American Idol or the NFL.
Obama stomped McCain! Remember it is not the popular vote it is the electoral vote that wins the Whitehouse & McCain was stomped....never really had a chance with all that was wrong during the election. McCain IMO was a better choice to get us back on track as he was an old time cut the pork out earmarks guy. To me Obama gives a good speech but has no ideas to implement other than tax & spend which is typical of the far left which is his background. This horse can not chnage colors he is what he is.
windingtrailgal
Active member
Should i go there that the people who teach our kids - teachers, professors, administrators - vote liberal in an overwhelming majority. At the college level, being a liberal is the enlightened and intellegent choice with conservatives being uneducated idiots who just don't know any better. I hear the word stupid A LOT around here when my liberal friends are talking about anyone who doesn't agree with them. For an all inclusive bunch, they sure are hateful of how half the people in this country think and feel about issues.
I don't think money had anything to do with who won the last presidential election. So, in my mind, all that money was spent on WHAT? FOR what?
I don't think money had anything to do with who won the last presidential election. So, in my mind, all that money was spent on WHAT? FOR what?
I say keep it up!!!! my stocks and wall street soaring if they want to sleep outside in the cold they only helping the people and companys that they hate also how come they are not protesting at all sporting events are they not the millionares n billionares that dont pay "their fair share"
I'm sure no-one has presented such a bill to congress. That appears to be Warren Buffett's proposed title for a bill containing the seven points enumerated in that quotation.
It's up to us to get the rascals to introduce and pass it (as happened with the 26th amendment, granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds, mentioned in the Warren Buffett quotation) by making sure they clearly understand that we are "as mad as he!!, and we aren't going to take this anymore" (Paraphrasing the line from the movie Network (1976).
windingtrailgal
Active member
I see...that makes sense. Why would a politician shoot himself in the foot for the greater good of the country? Warren Buffett isn't one of my favorite people but I'll grant him that he's smart, sharp and hellava business man.
ezra, that's a slippery slope. I technically don't own anything but a '93 Jeep, a ?'98 Ultra and an '06 Fusion. Oh, and a dog and 2 cats. I am not a property owner tho. Do I now not get to vote?
I get where you're coming from tho. It's always more complicated than any of us would like. I would like it, tho, if they made me show ID to vote. I don't find that unreasonable in the slightest.