We have to ask ourselfs. If all the "aliens" did not come or left, would americans do the work that they do? Would we work for $7 or $8 an hour? I think part of america has grown up in a time that they think the government has an obligation to take care of them. What happened to taking care of each other and yourself. I think this is part of the problem and that is part of why the government has become as large as it is. why do some americans have a sence of entitlement.
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What's the skinny on the new AZ immigration law??
- Thread starter anonomoose
- Start date
We have to ask ourselfs. If all the "aliens" did not come or left, would americans do the work that they do? Would we work for $7 or $8 an hour? I think part of america has grown up in a time that they think the government has an obligation to take care of them. What happened to taking care of each other and yourself. I think this is part of the problem and that is part of why the government has become as large as it is. why do some americans have a sence of entitlement.
snobuilder
Well-known member
And the 2 million LEGAL citizens of Hispanic heritage in the State of AZ are legal! Just like you! They are legal, working, Chevrolet driving, tax paying, home buying, child rearing, WalMart shopping Americans.
Your comment refers to ILLEGAL aliens. My comments refer to 2 million legal, legitimate citizens. I am an American of west European descent. They are Americans of Mexican descent.
They are as American as you
why would those who are here legaly have a problem with so called "profiling" unless there game is to bring others in illegaly?
Most ALL of those immigrants that went through the long pathway to legal citizenship hate the fact that the CHEATERS are SNEAKING in.
So, who is it you are cont. defending,...or are you simply making debate?
why would those who are here legaly have a problem with so called "profiling" unless there game is to bring others in illegaly?
Most ALL of those immigrants that went through the long pathway to legal citizenship hate the fact that the CHEATERS are SNEAKING in.
So, who is it you are cont. defending,...or are you simply making debate?
Dude-
These people aren't immigrants! In the mid 1800's there was no Arizona! It was Mexico! These 2 million Mexican Americans are the descendants of the of the indigenous peoples that have lived here for generations. Their great grandfathers lived there before your great grandfather got on the boat to America. After a series of battles that Mexico lost, the land called Arizona became a territory, and along with it all the people living in it became American citizens. These people are from here.
Why would people have a problem with racial profiling? For the same reason you would! Racial profiling is not like airport profiling, it is a systematic shift in police enforcement that targets a group of people not because of their actions, but because of their race. It is unconstitutional. You cannot enforce laws based upon race, sex, or creed. Laws are enforced based upon actions. It is not subtle. It is harassment, and the sheriff of Maricopa County AZ has received much criticism over how the Latino community is targeted. Note, I am talking about the legal citizens, descendants of legal citizens, not illegal immigrants. Would you like it if the police made consistent high profile sweeps through only white neighborhoods that resulted in the continued harassment of your wife, children, and friends? Day after day after day?
I can't believe how many of you scream like stuck pigs over the WI DNR targeting snowmobile registrations in St. Germain in a sting operation to get DUIs issued (legal contact, reasonable suspicion, like the AZ immigration law), or the MI DNR targeting stop signs in Bergland for the same reason, but you refuse to accept that in AZ there are 2 million legal citizens with full constitutional rights whose families have been there for generations who have now had "open season" declared on them by the legislature.
Why "open season"? Because of the way the law is written. The law allows policeman to require proof of citizenship (not drivers license) based upon reasonable suspicion. OK, no big deal. You pull me over for speeding I gotta show a passport (which in itself appears wrong since the Feds control immigration, not the states). The problem with the law is the "legal contact" action by the police. In order to get more proof of citizenship I must initiate more legal contact. If I stop more people, I get more proof. 75% of the illegal aliens in AZ are Mexican. If I want to get more illegal aliens I gotta stop more people that fit the profile more often. Unfortunately, since illegal alien is not an action (like speeding) that is visible to the officer, it is a state of being that is unobservable. There is only one primary identifier among most illegal aliens in AZ...they are Mexican. Unfortunately, so is 31% of the population...2 million people, all legal, been here for generations.
So, back to the police question. If I know that increasing "legal contact" allows me to initiate the "reasonable suspicion" clause I will direct my officers to increase legal contact within the group whose profile matches the offenders profile. Unfortunately, the only identifier in this case is race (illegal alien is not an action, it is a state of being), that race is Mexican. So to initiate more citizenship verifications I stop more Mexican-Americans. Not whites, not blacks or Asians because that won't get me anywhere, but legal citizens of America of Mexican descent (like legal citizens of Minnesota of Irish descent).
Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County has many innovative crime fighting tactics and punishments that appeal to voters, including myself. However, his operation is very suspect when it comes to the issue of racial profiling and harassment of the 2 million legal citizens that are of Mexican descent.
The reason I am so uncomfortable is that Sheriff Joe's interpretation could be "Boys, we got the right to ask for papers for any reasonable suspicion. But ya gotta have a legal contact before you can do it. I want these illegals outta here, and they are Mexicans. So boys, initiate legal contact with every f***in Mexican you see! Every day, all day. Cracked windshield, broken taillight, 1 mile over, lane change violation, no seatbelt, I don't care. Boys, round 'em up!"
Only time will tell if that will happen. But if you list places where it is likely to happen then Sheriff Joe in Maricopa County is near or at the top of this list.
Our country went through this with the systematic racial profiling of Blacks in the South during the 50's and 60's, and we responded with legislation that prohibits it. And that legislation still stands.
Time will tell.
Thanks, been fun, let's see what happens.
I like letterman's take on it,
They say there are about 12 million illegal immigrants in this country. But if you ask a native American, that number is more like 300 million." -David Letterman
Pete
Yeah, I heard that, too!
The other one I heard was "what do you call a Mexican in Arizona?" A suspect!
booondocker
New member
Dude-
These people aren't immigrants! In the mid 1800's there was no Arizona! It was Mexico! These 2 million Mexican Americans are the descendants of the of the indigenous peoples that have lived here for generations. Their great grandfathers lived there before your great grandfather got on the boat to America. After a series of battles that Mexico lost, the land called Arizona became a territory, and along with it all the people living in it became American citizens. These people are from here.
Why would people have a problem with racial profiling? For the same reason you would! Racial profiling is not like airport profiling, it is a systematic shift in police enforcement that targets a group of people not because of their actions, but because of their race. It is unconstitutional. You cannot enforce laws based upon race, sex, or creed. Laws are enforced based upon actions. It is not subtle. It is harassment, and the sheriff of Maricopa County AZ has received much criticism over how the Latino community is targeted. Note, I am talking about the legal citizens, descendants of legal citizens, not illegal immigrants. Would you like it if the police made consistent high profile sweeps through only white neighborhoods that resulted in the continued harassment of your wife, children, and friends? Day after day after day?
I can't believe how many of you scream like stuck pigs over the WI DNR targeting snowmobile registrations in St. Germain in a sting operation to get DUIs issued (legal contact, reasonable suspicion, like the AZ immigration law), or the MI DNR targeting stop signs in Bergland for the same reason, but you refuse to accept that in AZ there are 2 million legal citizens with full constitutional rights whose families have been there for generations who have now had "open season" declared on them by the legislature.
Why "open season"? Because of the way the law is written. The law allows policeman to require proof of citizenship (not drivers license) based upon reasonable suspicion. OK, no big deal. You pull me over for speeding I gotta show a passport (which in itself appears wrong since the Feds control immigration, not the states). The problem with the law is the "legal contact" action by the police. In order to get more proof of citizenship I must initiate more legal contact. If I stop more people, I get more proof. 75% of the illegal aliens in AZ are Mexican. If I want to get more illegal aliens I gotta stop more people that fit the profile more often. Unfortunately, since illegal alien is not an action (like speeding) that is visible to the officer, it is a state of being that is unobservable. There is only one primary identifier among most illegal aliens in AZ...they are Mexican. Unfortunately, so is 31% of the population...2 million people, all legal, been here for generations.
So, back to the police question. If I know that increasing "legal contact" allows me to initiate the "reasonable suspicion" clause I will direct my officers to increase legal contact within the group whose profile matches the offenders profile. Unfortunately, the only identifier in this case is race (illegal alien is not an action, it is a state of being), that race is Mexican. So to initiate more citizenship verifications I stop more Mexican-Americans. Not whites, not blacks or Asians because that won't get me anywhere, but legal citizens of America of Mexican descent (like legal citizens of Minnesota of Irish descent).
Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County has many innovative crime fighting tactics and punishments that appeal to voters, including myself. However, his operation is very suspect when it comes to the issue of racial profiling and harassment of the 2 million legal citizens that are of Mexican descent.
The reason I am so uncomfortable is that Sheriff Joe's interpretation could be "Boys, we got the right to ask for papers for any reasonable suspicion. But ya gotta have a legal contact before you can do it. I want these illegals outta here, and they are Mexicans. So boys, initiate legal contact with every f***in Mexican you see! Every day, all day. Cracked windshield, broken taillight, 1 mile over, lane change violation, no seatbelt, I don't care. Boys, round 'em up!"
Only time will tell if that will happen. But if you list places where it is likely to happen then Sheriff Joe in Maricopa County is near or at the top of this list.
Our country went through this with the systematic racial profiling of Blacks in the South during the 50's and 60's, and we responded with legislation that prohibits it. And that legislation still stands.
Time will tell.
Thanks, been fun, let's see what happens.
Hold on there partner…..some of this just doesn’t hold water!
First of all, Mexico lost the war, remember? If Hispanics want to live in Arizona, they have to enter and apply for citizenship. We fought that war and people died so that Arizona could be part of the USA. We took it fair and square. Not only that but not a single person living today can stake a claim to that land down there were NASH lives because they were living back then, and if we are going to say who this land belongs to, then we have keep on ago’n right on back to and including American Indians, and we would have to give it all back to them because they were here first. Spanish came later on.
Your premise that this is “racial profiling” doesn’t fit either. At least not in this context. Nor does the discrimination statement. Fact is that blacks were discriminated against simply because they were blacks. There was NO issue of illegal entry, illegal activity, or anything close to that. Therefore they were NOT guilty of crime. Had they been, they would have had no leg to stand on. But they were Americans, and they were discriminated against for causes OTHER than national security.
Imagine had the minute men, made a RULE that they had to go card those red coats to be sure they were actually red coats before they shot them?? These were the founding fathers who fought and died for this early country, and they didn’t have any terms back then of “racial” profiling…if they wore a red coat, they got shot. No difference today, only that it is a border we are watching…and believe me had you worn a red coat and 3 pointed hat around back in the 1760’s, you took your chances that you could get shot. Everyone would be sorry that it happened, no doubt, but you would be dead none-the-less. These men wrote the constitution we live by. They understood that you had to fight enemies of our country. Equal protections under the law comes only for those who are Americans. Asking for identification of any kind does not in and of itself, constitute discrimination…simply proves that you belong here…and there is NO law that says we Americans, can’t ask for that from time to time.
We are in the process of securing and protecting America. This is a whole nuther thing compared to “discrimination” or “racial profiling” and it has NO BOUNDS. If you are Hispanic and you live in an area where your ants and uncles are running over the border you have to understand that YOUR country is being OVER-RUN by illegals and YOU, as an American Citizen should be the MOST understanding that what is being done is done so for YOUR good as well as others who are here legally.
When we forget that we need to Protect this country, by using any and all means available to us, and we start putting rights of ANY CITIZENS as protections against foreign aggressions, then we are doomed as a country and we are looking at the end of ALL FREEDOMES that all of our ancestors fought and died for. We will have become complacent, and we will have lost track of what it is that we are protecting.
As a society we make laws that protect and defend our rights as citizens. NO where does it say that you should be able to wander around with no explanation as to where you live; if you are a naturalized citizen, or not and if you belong in this country legally or illegally.
Carding all Hispanics near a border that illegal Hispanics cross daily seems to me to be a small price for preserving what it is that those very illegals hope to gain once they get over the border and seek a new life. And if that means that you have to use your term of “racial profiling” then so be it! It is a protection of the Country firs, last and always. As long as that is what this is all about, then there is nothing anyone here legally should be concerned with.
Boondocker-
With all due respect, you have missed my point.
These people did not "enter" America. You are still hung up on illegal aliens, I have stressed in several of my posts that my issue does NOT deal with the rights of illegal aliens. Just as there are Irish Americans and German Americans in Minnesota, in the American Southwest there are Mexican Americans. Get it out of your head that these people "crossed in to the US". This land was Mexico, populated by Mexicans. Do you think that once the US won the wars and claimed the territory they sent all the Mexicans back to Mexico and made them re-apply, or swim across the Rio Grande? The American Southwest used to be Mexico. It is populated by American citizens of Mexican heritage. They did not swim here, they did not come across the border in vans. When this area became the USA, the Mexicans in the area became citizens, this in the late 1800s. Thats why there are so many Mexican Americans in the Southwest, it used to be Mexico! In AZ that represents 31% of the population. They are born in America citizens, really, same as you and me. They are of Mexican heritage, not Irish or English or German. Why? Because Arizona used to be Mexico.
The law is not about Mexicans crossing the border showing green cards. It is about the police having the power to detain people. The question being debated in America is what are the criteria Sheriff Joe will use to conduct the "legal contact". The reason it is being debated is because there is only one defining trait of an illegal alien in AZ and that is that there is a 75% chance he is Mexican. Unfortunately, 31% of the legal population looks like that, and a police crackdown based upon race (whether in Alabama in the 60s or Arizona in 2010) is illegal. Why? It is not because it is illegal to detain an illegal alien, he has no rights. But it is illegal to unfairly target a racial group in America, whether it is the Latino community in AZ or the Irish community St. Paul. Race, by itself, is not a permissible reason to detain, or obstruct American citizens in America.
These are American citizens. Their parents were American citizens, as were their grandparents and great grandparents. They did not immigrate. They are American citizens in America and they deserve the same rights as white people in Wisconsin. And as a white person in Wisconsin I don't get hassled by the sheriff unless I do something wrong. In Maricopa County the sheriff conducts police sweeps of Latino areas, and the sheriff's office is currently under Federal investigation for unconstitutional search and seizure violations and discrimination charges based on the 13 Latino area raids.
Illegal aliens do not have rights. Got it.
The 2 million American citizens of Mexican descent in Arizona do have rights.
With all due respect, you have missed my point.
These people did not "enter" America. You are still hung up on illegal aliens, I have stressed in several of my posts that my issue does NOT deal with the rights of illegal aliens. Just as there are Irish Americans and German Americans in Minnesota, in the American Southwest there are Mexican Americans. Get it out of your head that these people "crossed in to the US". This land was Mexico, populated by Mexicans. Do you think that once the US won the wars and claimed the territory they sent all the Mexicans back to Mexico and made them re-apply, or swim across the Rio Grande? The American Southwest used to be Mexico. It is populated by American citizens of Mexican heritage. They did not swim here, they did not come across the border in vans. When this area became the USA, the Mexicans in the area became citizens, this in the late 1800s. Thats why there are so many Mexican Americans in the Southwest, it used to be Mexico! In AZ that represents 31% of the population. They are born in America citizens, really, same as you and me. They are of Mexican heritage, not Irish or English or German. Why? Because Arizona used to be Mexico.
The law is not about Mexicans crossing the border showing green cards. It is about the police having the power to detain people. The question being debated in America is what are the criteria Sheriff Joe will use to conduct the "legal contact". The reason it is being debated is because there is only one defining trait of an illegal alien in AZ and that is that there is a 75% chance he is Mexican. Unfortunately, 31% of the legal population looks like that, and a police crackdown based upon race (whether in Alabama in the 60s or Arizona in 2010) is illegal. Why? It is not because it is illegal to detain an illegal alien, he has no rights. But it is illegal to unfairly target a racial group in America, whether it is the Latino community in AZ or the Irish community St. Paul. Race, by itself, is not a permissible reason to detain, or obstruct American citizens in America.
These are American citizens. Their parents were American citizens, as were their grandparents and great grandparents. They did not immigrate. They are American citizens in America and they deserve the same rights as white people in Wisconsin. And as a white person in Wisconsin I don't get hassled by the sheriff unless I do something wrong. In Maricopa County the sheriff conducts police sweeps of Latino areas, and the sheriff's office is currently under Federal investigation for unconstitutional search and seizure violations and discrimination charges based on the 13 Latino area raids.
Illegal aliens do not have rights. Got it.
The 2 million American citizens of Mexican descent in Arizona do have rights.
G
G
Guest
And how long is the border between the US and Canada? Since 9/11 They have shut this border down pretty tight. Is their racial profiling involved? You bet. If you are a towel wearing Muslim you get to spend extra time getting cleared. If you are an American citizen you better have a passport to get back IN. There is NOBODY pouring across the US/Can border in either direction. They have more surveilance toys than you can imagine and they are using them all day everyday 24/7/365.The problem with closing the border is that it is 2000 miles long. That would be the same distance as from Hudson WI to Los Angeles. How would you close it?
Before you say National Guard, remember that the Border Patrol currently has 17,000 agents effectively closing 700 miles of border. If you extrapolate that to the 2000 miles that is a deployment of 50,000 troops, and it would need to be permanent 'cause as soon as they pulled out the problem would start again.
If it was my problem to solve I would reduce demand by going after the employers. No jobs, no aliens.
We certainly already have the toys and manpower to accomplish the same on the southern border. It seems to be more of a question of IF we really want to clamp down.
To me it is fairly simple. Get rid of the illegals we already have. Prohibit new illegals from crossing the border. If they want to immigrate that is a whole different matter. In the mean time think of all the jobs that will be created! Our 9.7 unemployment rate will plummet.
G
G
Guest
A ps. I guess. - The jobs picking produce and other undesirable things might just have to start paying more to get American citizens to work them. Good. The prices of produce will go up to where they probably should be. We have the cheapest food supply in the world and some of it has been on the back of the illegals. It always comes down to $.
I have held off contributing to this thread because I do not like to get into discussions about politics but I am one for this law. My parents live in AZ about 50 miles from the border and about two years ago a stolen SUV full of illegals was driving about 60 miles an hour in their neighborhood and could not make the turn. They ran up the front yard and crashed into the side of their house. The car stopped one foot from my mom's head as she was sleeping in her bed. It is a amazing that they are alive because as they hit the house they took out the gas line to the house. It is a miracle that the house did not explode. To top things off, all the illegals were taken to the hospital for treatment, given three meals a day, and then the Mexican government had the balls to question if they were being treated fairly!
After a year of talking to local and state officials, including the Governor of the state, my mom was able to get more boarder patrols for the area. Unless you live there it is hard to imagine the how bad things are with the illegals. Yes I am for the law, does that mean it is perfect. No. I don't think the law inforcement officials are going to be stopping every Mexican they see. They would not have the time or resources to do that. Will some legal mexicans get stopped from time to time. Yes. but sitting back and doing nothing is not going to make things better.
After a year of talking to local and state officials, including the Governor of the state, my mom was able to get more boarder patrols for the area. Unless you live there it is hard to imagine the how bad things are with the illegals. Yes I am for the law, does that mean it is perfect. No. I don't think the law inforcement officials are going to be stopping every Mexican they see. They would not have the time or resources to do that. Will some legal mexicans get stopped from time to time. Yes. but sitting back and doing nothing is not going to make things better.
Quote from dcsnomo
This is the key.
"""The law is not about Mexicans crossing the border showing green cards. It is about the police having the power to detain people. The question being debated in America is what are the criteria Sheriff Joe will use to conduct the "legal contact". """
In my opinion it can be stated simply "I feel that Sheriff Joe can use his power to do his job to the "best" of his ability, and if he misuses/abuses his power we the people have the right to remove him from his position". Isn't that democracy? I'm not big on gov't power but I am big on police power. They should have enough power to protect and serve the people of the United States of America. If I had to carry a passport or official ID in northern MN to eliminate the stupid term "profiling" then send me directions to the gov't office that prepares them. Remember that 85% of all people on the road at 2 (am) are driving under the influence!!!! That is not profiling- That is statistics!!! If people are insulted by AZ, move up north and hang out with us Norsky's ice fishing. I'm pretty sure you will not be asked for your green card!!!
This is the key.
"""The law is not about Mexicans crossing the border showing green cards. It is about the police having the power to detain people. The question being debated in America is what are the criteria Sheriff Joe will use to conduct the "legal contact". """
In my opinion it can be stated simply "I feel that Sheriff Joe can use his power to do his job to the "best" of his ability, and if he misuses/abuses his power we the people have the right to remove him from his position". Isn't that democracy? I'm not big on gov't power but I am big on police power. They should have enough power to protect and serve the people of the United States of America. If I had to carry a passport or official ID in northern MN to eliminate the stupid term "profiling" then send me directions to the gov't office that prepares them. Remember that 85% of all people on the road at 2 (am) are driving under the influence!!!! That is not profiling- That is statistics!!! If people are insulted by AZ, move up north and hang out with us Norsky's ice fishing. I'm pretty sure you will not be asked for your green card!!!
This is the key.
"""The law is not about Mexicans crossing the border showing green cards. It is about the police having the power to detain people. The question being debated in America is what are the criteria Sheriff Joe will use to conduct the "legal contact". """
In my opinion it can be stated simply "I feel that Sheriff Joe can use his power to do his job to the "best" of his ability, and if he misuses/abuses his power we the people have the right to remove him from his position". Isn't that democracy? I'm not big on gov't power but I am big on police power. They should have enough power to protect and serve the people of the United States of America. If I had to carry a passport or official ID in northern MN to eliminate the stupid term "profiling" then send me directions to the gov't office that prepares them. Remember that 85% of all people on the road at 2 (am) are driving under the influence!!!! That is not profiling- That is statistics!!! If people are insulted by AZ, move up north and hang out with us Norsky's ice fishing. I'm pretty sure you will not be asked for your green card!!!
I agree. Obviously my feelings on this subject are more personal in nature but the fact is the problem is getting worse by the day. The illegals used to come in a basically not bother people. In the last couple of years they have gotten much more aggressive and have become more of a problem to the rest of the community.
well 3 yrs ago I went up to northern MN to do some boondocking I knew I would be close to the border possibly lost and going over so I brought my passport just in case I was stopped.wow it added allot of weight to my pocket I cant imagine having to carry that 1/8 of a oz around with me all the time. I may even have to buy a new wallet to carry it with me every place I go it could sit right next to my DL.I think the last time I left my wallet at home was 15yrs ago.also do you think a guy getting pulled over who spoke perfect English has a valid DL with his car in his name will really get hassled I doubt it.but I bet a guy who gets pulled over in a car not in his name cant show proof of ownership speak no englasa no ID is legit well maybe but I debut it but now the cap can ask the obvious question what is the prob in the past he could not even if it was blatantly obvious. Now who else can believe the oil corps have no caps/ siphons what ever sitting in wait. they are building one now. WHAT you don't have 1 or 2 just sitting around It is not like you have never had to use one before just not as deep but you did have to use one so why not build 2 and have one sitting in wait.
booondocker
New member
Boondocker-
With all due respect, you have missed my point.
These people did not "enter" America. You are still hung up on illegal aliens, I have stressed in several of my posts that my issue does NOT deal with the rights of illegal aliens. Just as there are Irish Americans and German Americans in Minnesota, in the American Southwest there are Mexican Americans. Get it out of your head that these people "crossed in to the US". This land was Mexico, populated by Mexicans. Do you think that once the US won the wars and claimed the territory they sent all the Mexicans back to Mexico and made them re-apply, or swim across the Rio Grande? The American Southwest used to be Mexico. It is populated by American citizens of Mexican heritage. They did not swim here, they did not come across the border in vans. When this area became the USA, the Mexicans in the area became citizens, this in the late 1800s. Thats why there are so many Mexican Americans in the Southwest, it used to be Mexico! In AZ that represents 31% of the population. They are born in America citizens, really, same as you and me. They are of Mexican heritage, not Irish or English or German. Why? Because Arizona used to be Mexico.
The law is not about Mexicans crossing the border showing green cards. It is about the police having the power to detain people. The question being debated in America is what are the criteria Sheriff Joe will use to conduct the "legal contact". The reason it is being debated is because there is only one defining trait of an illegal alien in AZ and that is that there is a 75% chance he is Mexican. Unfortunately, 31% of the legal population looks like that, and a police crackdown based upon race (whether in Alabama in the 60s or Arizona in 2010) is illegal. Why? It is not because it is illegal to detain an illegal alien, he has no rights. But it is illegal to unfairly target a racial group in America, whether it is the Latino community in AZ or the Irish community St. Paul. Race, by itself, is not a permissible reason to detain, or obstruct American citizens in America.
These are American citizens. Their parents were American citizens, as were their grandparents and great grandparents. They did not immigrate. They are American citizens in America and they deserve the same rights as white people in Wisconsin. And as a white person in Wisconsin I don't get hassled by the sheriff unless I do something wrong. In Maricopa County the sheriff conducts police sweeps of Latino areas, and the sheriff's office is currently under Federal investigation for unconstitutional search and seizure violations and discrimination charges based on the 13 Latino area raids.
Illegal aliens do not have rights. Got it.
The 2 million American citizens of Mexican descent in Arizona do have rights.
Please re-read my post. I KNOW that these people, at least many of them, ARE Americans. And I agree that they should have the same rights as Anyone gets in Wisconsin... no problem there. Where we differ is in your interpretation of what racial profiling is. Since the police are looking for Hispanics who are crossing illegally, then they surely would NOT look at French, or Asian parties, since those races of people are NOT the bulk of what is crossing the border illegally. Searching stopping, asking questions and using reasonable detainment processes, of ALL AMERICANS who have provided a reason to stop them, is OKAY. Nothing wrong with that, and it does NOT have to be a racial profile, simply because 99% of the parties entering illegally are of that skin color, of Latino origins, and speaking Spanish. This is the height of ridiculousness, when we decide that we can't use obvious identifiers to find the parties we are looking for. If the cops stop a Latino, in Arizona, or a Canadian just over the border in Minnesota, they KNOW what they are looking for. Racial profiling means you cruise around ignoring all other infractions by all other parties and zero in on one race for the soul purpose of making life miserable for them.
Well, hello---whether they like it or not, we know who we are looking for and if they all drove white ford pickup trucks we could just cut to the chase and pull all white ford pickup trucks over and ask questions, IF...IF they did something wrong to warrant that stop. That my friend is simply the reality of protecting our freedom. If we define this as racial profiling, then every stop is a racially motivated stop, is it not? We still don't stop them unless they do something wrong. Once they cross the line of doing something illegal, THEN...AMERICAN OR NOT, they should and could be stopped and they better have the right papers on them to explain that they ARE citizens and not illegals. If you don't want to be stopped...don't drive a white ford.
snobuilder
Well-known member
No need for 6 pargraphs of self serving blah, blah, blah.....
A genuine patriot does not hide behind leftist PC debate tactics.
A genuine patriot does not hide behind leftist PC debate tactics.
snobuilder
Well-known member
"Why would people have a problem with racial profiling? For the same reason you would! Racial profiling is not like airport profiling, it is a systematic shift in police enforcement that targets a group of people not because of their actions, but because of their race."
Being a patriot citizen of our sovereign country I would smile at the officer , answer all his questions , show my ID and then thank him for doing a great job.....and YOU??????
Being a patriot citizen of our sovereign country I would smile at the officer , answer all his questions , show my ID and then thank him for doing a great job.....and YOU??????
harvest1121
Well-known member
A census worker can ask me how many people live in my house why can't a cop ask for id when they stop someone. I do not think people understand the word illegal. So if someone has an illegal living with them would that be harboring a fugitive?
No need for 6 pargraphs of self serving blah, blah, blah.....
A genuine patriot does not hide behind leftist PC debate tactics.
AMEN BROTHER.
Alls I have to say is, ATLEAST enforce the current law. We are a nation of laws, not
lawbreakers. Too bad it had to come to this.
Now, we need to do the same thing here in MPLS/St.Paul.
GO ARIZONA!!!
Firecatguy
New member
The problem with closing the border is that it is 2000 miles long. That would be the same distance as from Hudson WI to Los Angeles. How would you close it?
Before you say National Guard, remember that the Border Patrol currently has 17,000 agents effectively closing 700 miles of border. If you extrapolate that to the 2000 miles that is a deployment of 50,000 troops, and it would need to be permanent 'cause as soon as they pulled out the problem would start again.
If it was my problem to solve I would reduce demand by going after the employers. No jobs, no aliens.
I have a good friend i went to school with who became a Border agent....he is looking for new form of work as its a crime now for him to do his job....The Govt does not want that border closed.....
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,244193,00.html
http://www.newsmax.com/US/US-Border-Agent-Shot/2010/04/29/id/357347
http://ramos-compean.blogspot.com/
then the good guys came to the rescue..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/19/bush-commutes-border-patr_n_159139.html
how sad is this...............