Union thugs are at it again
- Thread starter highhertel
- Start date
dfattack
Well-known member
Ezra, I didn't say it wasn't true. It is. I agree with you, but in years of dealing with union thugs it seems to me they are more comfortable being combative.
Union Members (not thugs)...I don't have a problem with. In my organization I deal with trades EVERY day. Plumbers, electricians, GC's, Heating & cooling you name it. I'm in the middle of a project with at least one of them each and every day. Some of them are my friends who are in the union because they don't have a choice. The GC I referred to is my best friend. He can't do his job if he is not union. The unions would picket his jobs and would cause his job to shut down because almost all plumbers and electricians who do commercial work are union, at least in the Chicago area. They will not cross the line if there is one.
So...my point was to just let the "thugs" get in their parting shots or sucker punches as some would say and let it go.
dfattack
Well-known member
You are correct & I think dfattack agrees in a milder tone. Sometimes it is enough to know you are correct & does not matter what someone else thinks. Everyone has the right to his opinion even when they are dead wrong.
Exactly. Thanks WD
indy_500
Well-known member
Originally Posted by lenny
deserve what, being called out on an ongoing belligerent attitude. Last I knew offering up opinions in ways that are respectful, Keeping the edge off as to not offended people, being kind, patient not impulsive were good qualities. Why do you prefer to see these qualities compromised when they promote healthy debate. So far I have heard he has been attacked, he doesnt deserve this, keep on doing what your doing, bla bla bla. Has anyone ever asked Indy to not think on his own, to jump ship, to keep quite. If you guys would read the content of my post about aggressive attitude you would clearly understand my intentions. Is there never a time to call somebody out on negative behavior? Help me to understand where I am going wrong, seriously! Let's end this part of debate
Lenny. I think I know where you went wrong. You did not put a smiley face at the end of your post. Don't you know you can say anything you want to anyone on the board and as long as you put a smiley face at the end, you can always go to the childish-cop-out fall back of "I was just kidding, see the smiley face"? Then anyone that objects to your opinion or how you said it is the bad one.
-John
exactly! I'm pretty smart aren't I??
WEAC's Email:
TO: Members of the Fox Cities Chamber of Commerce
FROM: Henry V. Krokosky, Jr., Executive Director
WEAC-Fox Valley
Fox Cities Chamber of Commerce Member
RE: The Rights of Wisconsin Public Sector Workers
WEAC-Fox Valley was established in 1974 and currently represents the professional and economic interests of over 3,100 teachers, faculty and educational support staff in the school districts of Appleton, Neenah, New London, Little Chute and Fox Valley Technical College.
Undoubtedly, you have heard about the attacks on worker rights, including the pending loss of our right to bargain collectively. This is a right that has existed for over fifty (50) years and that has enabled our members to improve the economic status of their families. It has also given us a voice at the table in improving our work environment which is the learning environment for our students.
While these attacks will have many negative consequences for my members, one result will be that they will have substantially less discretionary money to spend at businesses in the Fox Cities. Therefore, my members will need to be very selective about where they spend their hard earned dollars, only supporting businesses that value their labor and worker rights such as collective bargaining. In fact, public employees across the state are joining in this effort to pledge to spend where our rights are supported.
Would you be willing to support the rights of Wisconsin public sector workers, including the right to collectively bargain?
If so, please fill out the attached card opposing limitations on public employees collective bargaining rights. Mail it to WEAC-Fox Valley, 921 West Association Drive, Appleton, WI 54914. Upon receipt, we will deliver a sign which can be displayed at the entrance to your establishment so that the community and our members know where you stand.We will also place the name of your business on a “Pledge to Spend” list or website which will be distributed to our members and other public employees.
Thank you!
I will make sure and avoid any business that has this sign in their window.
TO: Members of the Fox Cities Chamber of Commerce
FROM: Henry V. Krokosky, Jr., Executive Director
WEAC-Fox Valley
Fox Cities Chamber of Commerce Member
RE: The Rights of Wisconsin Public Sector Workers
WEAC-Fox Valley was established in 1974 and currently represents the professional and economic interests of over 3,100 teachers, faculty and educational support staff in the school districts of Appleton, Neenah, New London, Little Chute and Fox Valley Technical College.
Undoubtedly, you have heard about the attacks on worker rights, including the pending loss of our right to bargain collectively. This is a right that has existed for over fifty (50) years and that has enabled our members to improve the economic status of their families. It has also given us a voice at the table in improving our work environment which is the learning environment for our students.
While these attacks will have many negative consequences for my members, one result will be that they will have substantially less discretionary money to spend at businesses in the Fox Cities. Therefore, my members will need to be very selective about where they spend their hard earned dollars, only supporting businesses that value their labor and worker rights such as collective bargaining. In fact, public employees across the state are joining in this effort to pledge to spend where our rights are supported.
Would you be willing to support the rights of Wisconsin public sector workers, including the right to collectively bargain?
If so, please fill out the attached card opposing limitations on public employees collective bargaining rights. Mail it to WEAC-Fox Valley, 921 West Association Drive, Appleton, WI 54914. Upon receipt, we will deliver a sign which can be displayed at the entrance to your establishment so that the community and our members know where you stand.We will also place the name of your business on a “Pledge to Spend” list or website which will be distributed to our members and other public employees.
Thank you!
I will make sure and avoid any business that has this sign in their window.
L
lenny
Guest
Originally Posted by lenny
deserve what, being called out on an ongoing belligerent attitude. Last I knew offering up opinions in ways that are respectful, Keeping the edge off as to not offended people, being kind, patient not impulsive were good qualities. Why do you prefer to see these qualities compromised when they promote healthy debate. So far I have heard he has been attacked, he doesnt deserve this, keep on doing what your doing, bla bla bla. Has anyone ever asked Indy to not think on his own, to jump ship, to keep quite. If you guys would read the content of my post about aggressive attitude you would clearly understand my intentions. Is there never a time to call somebody out on negative behavior? Help me to understand where I am going wrong, seriously! Let's end this part of debate
Lenny. I think I know where you went wrong. You did not put a smiley face at the end of your post. Don't you know you can say anything you want to anyone on the board and as long as you put a smiley face at the end, you can always go to the childish-cop-out fall back of "I was just kidding, see the smiley face"? Then anyone that objects to your opinion or how you said it is the bad one.
-John
windingtrailgal
Active member
Skylar, I don't know why, but I am stunned by how incredibly blatant and direct that is. I hate that I am still naive after all this time?!!
exactly! I'm pretty smart aren't I??
Well, since you asked.
No. I don't think that is smart. I think it is childish and irresponsible and shows little respect to the person you are responding to.
-John
indy_500
Well-known member
cat_man_mike
New member
I find it funny that we are "union thugs" for boycotting people who threaten our unions. What about the "snowmobile thugs" who boycott companies like REI who contribute millions to try to get us banned from federal land??????? What is the differance there, oh yeah, one is a recreational activity, and the other puts food on the table!
Sheet Metal Workers Local 265!!!!!!!!!
Indy, don't let these people try to bully you into changing your opinion. Stand your ground! Apparently they are not fans of overtime pay, 40 hour work week, holliday pay, hollidays off, weekends off, OSHA, Minimum wage, or any other worker's benifits given to them by the sacrifices of union members.
Sheet Metal Workers Local 265!!!!!!!!!
Indy, don't let these people try to bully you into changing your opinion. Stand your ground! Apparently they are not fans of overtime pay, 40 hour work week, holliday pay, hollidays off, weekends off, OSHA, Minimum wage, or any other worker's benifits given to them by the sacrifices of union members.
windingtrailgal
Active member
Mike
So let's say I'm not for or against...just trying to stay neutral and trying to keep my head down and earn my living...
"Therefore, my members will need to be very selective about where they spend their hard earned dollars, only supporting businesses that value their labor and worker rights such as collective bargaining. In fact, public employees across the state are joining in this effort to pledge to spend where our rights are supported."
That sounds to me like my own business is going to be threatened because I don't want to put a sign in my window? That's what I don't like.
So let's say I'm not for or against...just trying to stay neutral and trying to keep my head down and earn my living...
"Therefore, my members will need to be very selective about where they spend their hard earned dollars, only supporting businesses that value their labor and worker rights such as collective bargaining. In fact, public employees across the state are joining in this effort to pledge to spend where our rights are supported."
That sounds to me like my own business is going to be threatened because I don't want to put a sign in my window? That's what I don't like.
Sacrifices by union members? Umm, ok, whatever.
I appreciate everyone of those things. BUT, unions are no longer needed, plain and simple.
Don't worry about Indy changing his mind, I am pretty sure his dad won't let that happen.
cat_man_mike
New member
Windingtrailgal: If you had a choice between buying gloves at REI or the ****'s sporting goods right across the street, where would you shop? (I have not steped into an REI once since I heard about all the attacks on snomobiling they pursue) People make choices on where to shop based on their standpoints on issues all the time. Costco or Sam's club? Citgo or Shell? It happenes all the time. People are not putting signs in your window saying "don't shop here" they are putting signs up in their own buisness saying, we stand with you in your fight. Wouldn't you want to spend your money somewhere where they support you?
Read the dark text area again, here is what I am understanding. "If you do not put this sign in your window supporting the teachers union, our members may not buy anything from your business."
Therefore, my members will need to be very selective about where they spend their hard earned dollars, only supporting businesses that value their labor and worker rights such as collective bargaining. In fact, public employees across the state are joining in this effort to pledge to spend where our rights are supported.
Borders on extortion if you ask me.
No offense, Skylar, and with all due respect....that's a pretty bold statement to make without being familiar with everybody's working conditions and/or the tactics their employers use.
windingtrailgal
Active member
Sure Mike - I do understand your point...but (and there's always a but monkey) there are also a lot of companies out there that don't get involved in snowmobiling or the politics of it at all, to use your example, and I don't boycott them because they don't have a sign in their window saying we support snowmobiler's causes...
We were a union shop for 56 years...we aren't anymore. It doesn't make us anti-union, it doesn't make us pro-union. It just didn't work out so well for the grand-patriach of our business and it was a little too pricey for us to keep it union considering we are just a small mom & pop outfit. Because we are primarily a HVAC shop, big daddy works with union guys all the time because there is no specific HVAC union here in Chi-town. He's not considered a bad guy for this. He would never THINK of touching the tin on those jobs if there are union sheet metal workers there - it's a respect issue...
This thread has over 200 posts now. I can't possibly remember who said what...but I know that I basically said is there's a lot of grey here - not pro/not anti any one particular union. Not pro/anti any one particular individual within any union. Some of the tactics? I do indeed have a problem with. And the wording of that letter is something I do have a problem with.
(Why do I keep on coming back to this thread??) (and now I feel self conscious about using smiley faces and what not so ya'll don't think I'm trying to be an a-hole?!?!)
wtg
We were a union shop for 56 years...we aren't anymore. It doesn't make us anti-union, it doesn't make us pro-union. It just didn't work out so well for the grand-patriach of our business and it was a little too pricey for us to keep it union considering we are just a small mom & pop outfit. Because we are primarily a HVAC shop, big daddy works with union guys all the time because there is no specific HVAC union here in Chi-town. He's not considered a bad guy for this. He would never THINK of touching the tin on those jobs if there are union sheet metal workers there - it's a respect issue...
This thread has over 200 posts now. I can't possibly remember who said what...but I know that I basically said is there's a lot of grey here - not pro/not anti any one particular union. Not pro/anti any one particular individual within any union. Some of the tactics? I do indeed have a problem with. And the wording of that letter is something I do have a problem with.
(Why do I keep on coming back to this thread??
) (and now I feel self conscious about using smiley faces and what not so ya'll don't think I'm trying to be an a-hole?!?!)wtg
cat_man_mike
New member
"Ummm, ok, whatever"???? Really? You need to do a little research my friend.
So, you don't think that firefighters and police officers deserve the right to collectively bargin for conditions and wages? Uh, oh, that's right, the people who rush to put out the fire in your house or come to take you to the hospital when you have been in an accident, or risk their lives every day to keep you safe, are in the same "Public sector" as those "greedy teachers" hmmm...
Unions are needed. They balance the power between workers and companies. Without the power to collectively bargin, wage scales would drop like a rock and we would be right where a certain group of people want us to be, an upper class (which increased by 8% last year by the way, I wonder who this resession is really hurting), a lower class, and no middle class. Jobsite saftey would be at an all time low because there would be no accountability.
And why would Indy not be behind the orginization that helped put food on his table as he grew up?
Very good point, I can only base my opinion on my 25 years of being in the work force, and talking to other people in other professions that I have met in those 25 years, and what I have learned about unions, in high school, and on my own. A group of people wanted to start a union at the place I am employed at some 15 years ago. After listening to what the union rep said, a vote was taken, and we voted no union.
There are plenty of us that do not belong to unions, and fall in the "middle class", with out a union telling us who we can vote for, or where we can spend our money, etc etc.
My wife and I both make pretty good money, for our area, and we did this by busting our butts and earning every promotion we have gotten. We did not need to go into the owners office as a "group", and demand more money, or else. We went in to the office as a single employee, with a list of we offered to the company, sometimes we were rewarded, other times not. The times we weren't, we discussed what we could do better, made the adjustments, and were rewarded later.