Union thugs are at it again
- Thread starter highhertel
- Start date
Let's all just work hard. Give where we want to give. Isn't that how this country was founded?? That is fair. IMO based on the facts I've seen; our president and that party doesn't agree with that. They are for unions; which are for socialization. Might look good on paper, but not in reality.
sparkysledder
New member
1st off I am one of those JD'ers that sits in the weeds and does not comment. Ever. Opinions are like ............and most know the rest of that statement. Also I watch this board on AND off season and know who many ofthe seasonal and non seasonal posters are.
However this disscussion hits me right between the eyes on a multitude of levels, and all seem to be chiming in. So here goes. I'm sure this will be too long.
I was a union tradesman from the age of 17 till 32. In those years I busted my a** and always had a job. It was a good life and I earned more money than my non tradesman buddies at the begining. As time went on I had a hard time holding up all of the deadbeats that worked beside me making the same wage as I. There was some grafitti on a job I will never forget. "Hide and go seek for a grand a week!" I just could not handle the union mentality. Work hard or hide and seek we all got the same pay/recognition and if the company you were working for tried to fire/layoff the deadbeats usually they got the "talking to" from the union.
So I decided to into business for myself. At first I was going to be a union shop. The union told me "You will never make it" and "You can't afford the unkown initiation fee," and also "how many generations of your family have been in this union," and the "How much money do you plan to give the PAC?" (Political Action Comitee)
I live and work in a "right to work" state. But it is all BS. Even on private construction projects there is a reality to getting the job done. If a particular union is on the job and they don't like a non union contractor they threaten to slow down the job or put up a picket line. 10 times out of 10 the general contractor will boot you off the job even if he has to pay the balance of your contact to you for not completely finishing the work. Its all a game.
I have been in business for myself now for 8 years. Non union. What a ride. No regrets.
The unions were created to protect the "Common man". Now they only protect the people that pay dues to that particular union. I have seen unions fight with each other harder than fight the non union element.
Bottom line, we all have to give a little here folks. Most all of people here on this site are good people. (Even Indy, he is a good kid overall) This issue is so polarizing. Many non union people have had cuts in salary/benifits, so have some union.
Once thing that needs to be highlighted, for most people this is NOT about union vs non union, it is about where the taxes that we all pay go and how they are used / distributed.
That should be the disscussion. Maybe a new thread for someone out there. Borderline political but maybe the moderators will allow it?
Sorry so long winded. Had to get off my chest. Just my 2 cents.
However this disscussion hits me right between the eyes on a multitude of levels, and all seem to be chiming in. So here goes. I'm sure this will be too long.
I was a union tradesman from the age of 17 till 32. In those years I busted my a** and always had a job. It was a good life and I earned more money than my non tradesman buddies at the begining. As time went on I had a hard time holding up all of the deadbeats that worked beside me making the same wage as I. There was some grafitti on a job I will never forget. "Hide and go seek for a grand a week!" I just could not handle the union mentality. Work hard or hide and seek we all got the same pay/recognition and if the company you were working for tried to fire/layoff the deadbeats usually they got the "talking to" from the union.
So I decided to into business for myself. At first I was going to be a union shop. The union told me "You will never make it" and "You can't afford the unkown initiation fee," and also "how many generations of your family have been in this union," and the "How much money do you plan to give the PAC?" (Political Action Comitee)
I live and work in a "right to work" state. But it is all BS. Even on private construction projects there is a reality to getting the job done. If a particular union is on the job and they don't like a non union contractor they threaten to slow down the job or put up a picket line. 10 times out of 10 the general contractor will boot you off the job even if he has to pay the balance of your contact to you for not completely finishing the work. Its all a game.
I have been in business for myself now for 8 years. Non union. What a ride. No regrets.
The unions were created to protect the "Common man". Now they only protect the people that pay dues to that particular union. I have seen unions fight with each other harder than fight the non union element.
Bottom line, we all have to give a little here folks. Most all of people here on this site are good people. (Even Indy, he is a good kid overall) This issue is so polarizing. Many non union people have had cuts in salary/benifits, so have some union.
Once thing that needs to be highlighted, for most people this is NOT about union vs non union, it is about where the taxes that we all pay go and how they are used / distributed.
That should be the disscussion. Maybe a new thread for someone out there. Borderline political but maybe the moderators will allow it?
Sorry so long winded. Had to get off my chest. Just my 2 cents.
noradonuts
New member
lenny
in your rant about Indy you forgot to blame his parents,go for it you'll feel better about yourself
in your rant about Indy you forgot to blame his parents,go for it you'll feel better about yourself
I again don't think anyone is saying that the average teacher makes too much money. That's a straw man argument perpetuated by the unions themselves. Again, in a fair system, great teachers would make great wages, and there would be competition among teachers to ensure this happens. The country desperately needs great teachers.
Look at the dollars thrown at education and how much it is growing. That is the issue. Certainly taxpayers should get more results for their investments. Sure a lot of it is administration, but the unions have made the process much more expensive.
harvest1121
Well-known member
I thought that is what the teachers say when the test scores are low blame the parents. Just came across the news they are redoing the contracts before the law goes into effect.
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rocketman356
New member
Yaa know sitting here again and reading that article really pisses me off.Here are these Aholes making threats against thier members employers and source of income (tax payers).God bless these few govenors that have the brass to stand up to these aholes.Public sector unions my azz ,there just out for thier own azz.
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indy_500
Well-known member
If I was on your guys' anti-union side, you guys wouldn't give a crap how bad I'd bash unions. Just sayin... But since I'm one of the few on this site on the "other side" AND because I'm a kid who hasn't worked and bla bla bla, I'm all of a sudden a terrible kid... I have an opinion and I'm sticking to it. Sure, maybe a few posts were a tad outta line, but overall, the way I see it, if I was on the anti-union side I'd be the "greatest kid ever" and my "parents raised me right"... Should I probably be shutting up right now? yeah, probably, but I'm not giving up.
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electraglide1
Member
For me the issue is pay for performance. One big issue I have with unions is their expectation that time on a job has such high regard. What possible value does that have if someone is failing to perform or even progress? I beleive someone in the teaching profession for example should earn a very solid income 70 - 100k? Absolutely. Even more but just like in the private sector they better produce measureable results and they should know that time on the job means nothing unless they use it to become better at what they do. I'm just picking teachers as an example, understand, I respect their profession. I cannot however respect anyone who does not earn their keep or anyone who backs them. Any union person who works to save a deadbeats job should be putting their efforts to better use. That's one more issue I have with unions. Submitted respectfully,
Why is it about republicans? I'm clearly not republican...but surely not democrat. I believe in working hard, and getting what you work for. There are many men on here that believe the same. We don't want handouts. We work hard for toys and whatever else we want.
I'm not picking on you Indy. As some have said earlier in this post though; don't sell yourself short. You don't have to work for a 'middle of the road' payroll. Work hard physically and mentally. Run your own business and make a bunch of cash, and care for others while you do it. Just don't get stuck on; "this is all there is."
I've been there. That pays the bills but it's not too much fun. Just be all you can be. Hate to sound like the old army commercial.
rocketman356
New member
Oh ,On a calmer note yaa know those 11 state senators that where hiding,thats right hiding in IL. 35% TO 80% OF THIER CAMPAIGN FUNDS came from union dues depending on which senator.What a corrupt system.
how many of you could take off not show up to your job for a few weeks and still have a job?prob not many and if you were did keep your job after not showing up to work would you then start saying the people who did show up to work should loose ther jobs?yeah crazy very crazy in what world do they live in oh yeah the public worker world
polarisrider1
New member
Jumping on the band wagon?
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anonomoose
New member
If anyone has learned a darn thing on these posts, it should be that you CAN NOT LUMP all unions together.
There are those that certainly give unions a very bad reputation, but just like anything you can use as an example, there are good teachers and bad ones, good cops and bad ones, and on and on.
Don't lump them all together because they are as different as the members that support them and the hierarchy that composes the rules and regulations and negotiates the contracts. Often that is why some unions clash with others.
Some unions don't do a darn thing, near as I can tell but collect dues; and others stick their noses in your face and intimidate their own memberships.
There have been some really good posts on here about this topic, and some very good points. Clearly there are those who are suborn and won't even begin to see any other points, but perhaps some are getting a different view and that is why I hope that this tread lives....it can move those who live on one end or the other to perhaps see some middle ground.
Lenny.....bark, bark bark....BITE!
Indy, you're only 16 but I see promise in Yuh kid....most of these folks who show LITTLE PATIENCE for a kid this age, have completely forgotten how out to lunch they were when they were only 16. Probably couldn't even type...for some...they still can't. Hang in there kid....try to remember this is primarily an adult community you are trying to communicate with and as such perhaps there are times to bite your lip and let things slide. Try not to get your back up...this is a debate...debates should show multiple facets of a topic and if you continue to have an open mind, maybe you will learn a thing or two about people and issues and attitudes, prejudices, and pigheadedness. You will see it all your life....reserving yourself takes more patience and resources than to ford right in to the mud pool and in so doing taking away your share of mud. Hang in there kid....and hopefully all the valid and invalid points will make you a more rounded kid and might even make you a bit better debater some day. For the other "kids" on here....keep it up...it is entertaining if nothing else. But please, like the rules say....try not to be so smack dab blunt about "the good party" "good Prez" and such and just leave the points about where you are driving off the keyboard...otherwise this thread will get dumped...and then what are we going to do for entertainment...watch re-runs on TV??? I should hope not!!!
There are those that certainly give unions a very bad reputation, but just like anything you can use as an example, there are good teachers and bad ones, good cops and bad ones, and on and on.
Don't lump them all together because they are as different as the members that support them and the hierarchy that composes the rules and regulations and negotiates the contracts. Often that is why some unions clash with others.
Some unions don't do a darn thing, near as I can tell but collect dues; and others stick their noses in your face and intimidate their own memberships.
There have been some really good posts on here about this topic, and some very good points. Clearly there are those who are suborn and won't even begin to see any other points, but perhaps some are getting a different view and that is why I hope that this tread lives....it can move those who live on one end or the other to perhaps see some middle ground.
Lenny.....bark, bark bark....BITE!
Indy, you're only 16 but I see promise in Yuh kid....most of these folks who show LITTLE PATIENCE for a kid this age, have completely forgotten how out to lunch they were when they were only 16. Probably couldn't even type...for some...they still can't. Hang in there kid....try to remember this is primarily an adult community you are trying to communicate with and as such perhaps there are times to bite your lip and let things slide. Try not to get your back up...this is a debate...debates should show multiple facets of a topic and if you continue to have an open mind, maybe you will learn a thing or two about people and issues and attitudes, prejudices, and pigheadedness. You will see it all your life....reserving yourself takes more patience and resources than to ford right in to the mud pool and in so doing taking away your share of mud. Hang in there kid....and hopefully all the valid and invalid points will make you a more rounded kid and might even make you a bit better debater some day. For the other "kids" on here....keep it up...it is entertaining if nothing else. But please, like the rules say....try not to be so smack dab blunt about "the good party" "good Prez" and such and just leave the points about where you are driving off the keyboard...otherwise this thread will get dumped...and then what are we going to do for entertainment...watch re-runs on TV??? I should hope not!!!
rocketman356
New member
No wondering going on in Wi. just a correction.Getting the public sector employee compensation package inline with the private sector.This whole deal is nuttz yaa need to stand on the sidelines and look in to see a clear picture of whats been going on with these public sector unions. Have a nice day and god bless the usa.
harvest1121
Well-known member
indy_500
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Greenville, Wi
Posts: 4,596
I love their deals on clothing, their parts department is nice to work with. I just can't imagine taking anything there for service or anywhere else at $90 an hour.
So Indy it seem its a double standard here you do not want to pay the rates. I guess you could never call a union plumber or get your car fixed at a union car dealer. It seems you only support the people if you did not have to pay the wages. Just wait till you have to pay taxes then property taxes you will change where your money goes. People should be paid a fair wage and I do not have a problem with that. Its the waste that the government has.
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Greenville, Wi
Posts: 4,596
I love their deals on clothing, their parts department is nice to work with. I just can't imagine taking anything there for service or anywhere else at $90 an hour.
So Indy it seem its a double standard here you do not want to pay the rates. I guess you could never call a union plumber or get your car fixed at a union car dealer. It seems you only support the people if you did not have to pay the wages. Just wait till you have to pay taxes then property taxes you will change where your money goes. People should be paid a fair wage and I do not have a problem with that. Its the waste that the government has.
xsledder
Active member
A fair wage is determined between the employeer and employee.
I want someone to tell me what the salary range of the middle class is, nationally. The best I can tell, the middle-class is not based on a salary but whether you belong to a union or not. Middle-class = union member. Not a union member = rich. Am I right or wrong?