Union thugs are at it again

[Hoosier]

your right teachers get paid way too much, this is my 3rd year teaching and I make 33,355 a year. way too much, oh and my wife the nurse she is in a union and she makes way too much too. the police liaison officer at school makes way too much 40,000.


the highest paid teacher in our district with 20+yrs of service and a PhD still can only make 65k. dont doctors with PhDs dont even make that much

this guys says it pretty well, really putting us overpaid slackers in our place

"Are you sick of high paid teachers? Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - baby sit! We can get that for less than minimum wage.



That’s right. Let’s give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM

with 45 min. off for lunch and plan — that equals 6 1/2 hours).



Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children.



Now how many do they teach in day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.



LET’S SEE…. That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 peryear. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).



What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children

X 180 days = $280,800 per year.



Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here! There sure is!



The average teacher’s salary (nation wide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student–a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your

kids!)"


oh yea thanks for the support indy!

Who said anything about babysitting? Teaching is a PROFESSION and teachers should be compensated and evaluated as such. Each individual teacher's skills and dedication should determine their compensation, not some organization that collects dues from them every month. The best teachers should get paid much more and would be highly sought after if the system wasn't set up to reward the mediocre.

 

[russholio]

but part of the point is is that cities do f up money and why not it is not there money. the politician knows he wants your vote and that most of his non city worker constituents dont pay attention to facts just what they are told buy the politician.the politician would rather keep the city workers fat and happy than face the bad press crated buy the union for the children sound familiar?example Madison dose not matter that the contracts are 100% unsustainable and if they dont act now there will be no money to honer past contracts let alone continue to pay current workers. ask your self what corp in the USA that had government style golden pension programs have not filed bankruptcy and restructured its future retirement contribution program NON. they have all restructured now it is the governments turn UNSUSTANABLE!so when it comes to negotiating with the union no one has anything to loose except the tax payer and he has been asleep at the wheel.
city is not playing with there money and the city worker union knows it wont be replaced with a lower bid contract so ask for the farm and get it.
so who is looking out for me the tax payer in these negotiations

It takes two to tango. Just because the union asks for the farm, doesn't mean the city is obligated to give it. That's why it's called "negotiating". If the city signed a bunch of unsustainable contracts, is it their fault for not doing their homework or the union's fault for asking for said contracts? Seems like there's a notion that unions get everything they ask for and/or that employers are obligated to give everything unions ask for, and it just ain't so.

 

[doo_dr]

I have read almost every post in this thread and the most interesting thing about this entire discussion is everyone is pointing the finger at each other not themselves! Sure Politicans, Government employees, Unions, etc. have all contributed their fair share to the done fall of this economy but me and you have also contributed our fair share.

If we are going to survive this change and the down fall of this economy then it starts with me and you and self responsibility. No matter how little or how big we can all contribute!!

FR
Nice way to put it!!!! My Grandfather always said if you point a finger at someone, you will always have 3 pointing back at you. I get "torqued off" reading how someone is having sled problems and it is someone elses fault for thier problems. Take some responsiblility in life and work for your beliefs.

 

[Deleted member 10829]

Media

What bothers me as much as anything is the media. Can you imagine how they would have covered this if Tea Party members had done the same things these idiots are doing? The media blew everything out of proportion if the Tea Party even had a negative sign, now they let these left wing nuts run crazy (including signs comparing Walker to Hitler) and you hardly hear a thing. Our media is so one sided it's ridiculous. Thank goodness for Fox News!

 

[Deleted member 10829]

It takes two to tango. Just because the union asks for the farm, doesn't mean the city is obligated to give it. That's why it's called "negotiating". If the city signed a bunch of unsustainable contracts, is it their fault for not doing their homework or the union's fault for asking for said contracts? Seems like there's a notion that unions get everything they ask for and/or that employers are obligated to give everything unions ask for, and it just ain't so.

The problem is the government officials that are "negotitating" for us are in the unions back pockets. They were liberals that gave the unions all they wanted and more. Why? So they could continue to receive 90% of union political donations and have their vote to get re-elected. It was a vicious cycle, but those days are over!

 

[russholio]

The problem is the government officials that are "negotitating" for us are in the unions back pockets. They were liberals that gave the unions all they wanted and more. Why? So they could continue to receive 90% of union political donations and have their vote to get re-elected. It was a vicious cycle, but those days are over!

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know the particulars of the situation in Wisconsin. If that's the case, then I can understand why people are upset.

But, I still believe a few bad apples spoil the barrel.

 

[Deleted member 10829]

I don't think that situation is unique to Wisconsin. Politicians and unions have been scratching each other's backs all over this country, especially in the more liberal states.

 

[indy_500]

I don't ever get involved in these discussions because they are pointless...but I do appreciate your courage for standing up for your opinions. I have been a union member for 33 years. If you could send me your sweatshirt size and an address I would like to send you an official Laborers Union sweatshirt. Thanks for your support.

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't have gotten involved, but everytime one of these union-bashing threads come up, everybody sits there and bashes them, then the one person who tries to put in their 2 cents gets blasted for having a so called "opinion" because since their opinion is pro-union, they must be "stupid" or "uneducated". Is it December 2011 yet? with 2 feet of snow please? Thanks

 

[harvest1121]

There is a difference between a union that works for the government and one that works for a company. I have no problems with unions like Caterpillar Tractor. The problem is when you have officials that you voted for negotiating your contract. Indy you are going to learn more in here then at school about how things work. Thats half the problem with schools you are taught one side. If you teachers want to teach and be unbiased ask them to show 'Waiting for Superman' then discuss that. How can you be a teacher if you not show both sides and let the kids think.

 

[russholio]

There is a difference between a union that works for the government and one that works for a company. I have no problems with unions like Caterpillar Tractor. The problem is when you have officials that you voted for negotiating your contract.

And I would agree that it seems like a conflict of interest. Again, I can't speak for all public employee unions everywhere....but I can speak for the one to which I belong, and our elected officials do NOT negotiate our contract.

 

[woodi]

Has anyone heard that the Green bay Packers won the supper bowl. Thanks 4 this thread highhertel its been a fun 1 to read, good points on both sides.To my little buddy indy theres 2 things in life u want 2 stay away from 1 is guessing how old a women is & the other is politics

 

[01mndoo]

I have been reading this thread and have been trying to keep an open mind but I have to add my 2 cents. I have been teaching for 12 years and don't make anywhere close to 100 grand a year or even 75 with my benefits. Lets talk about those great benefits. Yes I have medical but with a $2500 deductible and a 15 thousand dollar cap before the insurance kicks in full. I have no dental and I can not add my wife to my policy with out having to pay an extra 360 per pay check. Now lets talk about continuing education cost. To keep my license and to advance in my career I had to go back to school and get my masters degree. I had to increase my debt by $25000 to keep and advance in my job and as far as I know there are no schools who pay for these cost in MN.

Yes there are teachers bad teachers and yes the system has protected them, but there are bad workers in every field union and non-union. Teachers have to answer to the building principals, superintendents, school board, board of education, and parents. We can lose our jobs just like anyone else but do get the advantage of being able to defend ourselves from the accusations against us. When it comes evaluating teachers and paying based on their performance I ask the question who should evaluate the teachers. If teachers are are going to be evaluated by the board of education then the tax payers will have to pay people to go to the schools and evaluate all the differences disciplines. How many of you want to be evaluated and have your pay adjusted by some one who comes in and watches you work for a day or part of a day because there are a lot of teachers out there. Hope you don't have an off day or your out some of your pay. Maybe we should evaluate teachers on test scores. What about the teachers who don't teach math, science, history, or English. Last time I checked they don't test kids on industrial tech, FACS, art, band, or physical education.

I guess I have given more then my 2 cents and I apologize for rambling on but their are to many people think that teachers get paid to much with out knowing the whole story.

 

[ezra]

Has anyone heard that the Green bay Packers won the supper bowl. Thanks 4 this thread highhertel its been a fun 1 to read, good points on both sides.To my little buddy indy theres 2 things in life u want 2 stay away from 1 is guessing how old a women is & the other is politics

not if you are a elected politician then you live the enchanted life

 

[dfattack]

Seems to me many are missing the point. I'm sure nobody wants pay cuts or under paid teachers. Its the agreements that are currently in place that allow the 25% (Indy) of the teachers that are in a position they shouldn't be due to seniority. I'm sure the unions would interpret that as "protection", but that's not the protection we should be encouraging. Wasn't the "teacher of the year" in Wisconsin terminated due to seniority guidelines? The best should have jobs, just like in the private sector. How are the older more experienced teachers going to continue to improve themselves since they know they aren't going to lose their jobs?

The biggest problems is the pensions...they are out of control and that is the problem the entire country is facing. The high school in northern Wisc. where I have a home almost closed due to what they were paying out to teachers that aren't even teaching anymore. The area couldn't support both working on non-working teachers.

A couple of years ago for every GM car sold, $2,000 of the cost of the vehicle went to workers who are retired. That's nuts...sorry. If left unchanged what will it be in 5 years, 10 years?

It has to stop. Reasonable change has to happen. Protect what's in place for current workers, but make drastic changes from this point forward. Teach people to plan for their retirement so they aren't surprised in the end and stop relying on the next generation to pay for them.

 

[woodi]

Guess your right ezra but this is alot of fun hope they don't pull it.

 

[Skidooski]

Little fact of life. My brother lost one hand and most of his other one in 1986 thanks to some moron walking by the machine he was in and turning it on. The UAW got my brother absolutely nothing and he has been fully disabled since. All he could get was the union rate for a hand and a half...... Early 30's and will never work again and all he got was $200K... BS in book no matter what you say.

And, your union fees go to the big guys at the top sitting in their offices with legions of cubicles, all overhead paid by union workers.

I like the fact that I can prove myself and earn more than the person next to me. If I do not perform, then I do not expect to receive that bonus.

Sorry about your brother but I'm assuming he did not practice Lock-out/Tag-out procedures?

 

[heckler56]

Sorry about your brother but I'm assuming he did not practice Lock-out/Tag-out procedures?

yes he did, but had been allocated to a manager that made life miserable for those that took the time to do that. That manger was know for that issue, hence why he did not have people show up. It was all a catch 22. Under any other business, that person would be dismissed, but was protected under union contract.

My brother and I have been having these spirted discussions since the 70's. :0

I orginally wanted to be a federal arbitrator, but figured I would not make since I could not have a meaningful discussion with my own family.

 

[frnash]

The problem? Tenure!

Compare:
From the New Yorker Magazine, 8/31/2009: The New York City Schools' "Rubber Rooms"
vs.
from CBS' 60 Minutes, 2/13/2011, "Charter Schools $125,000 experiment", (video, 13m + 38s).

Which teachers do you want on the payroll?

 

[felonious_rider]

Couldn't agree more!!!

I have been reading this thread and have been trying to keep an open mind but I have to add my 2 cents. I have been teaching for 12 years and don't make anywhere close to 100 grand a year or even 75 with my benefits. Lets talk about those great benefits. Yes I have medical but with a $2500 deductible and a 15 thousand dollar cap before the insurance kicks in full. I have no dental and I can not add my wife to my policy with out having to pay an extra 360 per pay check. Now lets talk about continuing education cost. To keep my license and to advance in my career I had to go back to school and get my masters degree. I had to increase my debt by $25000 to keep and advance in my job and as far as I know there are no schools who pay for these cost in MN.

Yes there are teachers bad teachers and yes the system has protected them, but there are bad workers in every field union and non-union. Teachers have to answer to the building principals, superintendents, school board, board of education, and parents. We can lose our jobs just like anyone else but do get the advantage of being able to defend ourselves from the accusations against us. When it comes evaluating teachers and paying based on their performance I ask the question who should evaluate the teachers. If teachers are are going to be evaluated by the board of education then the tax payers will have to pay people to go to the schools and evaluate all the differences disciplines. How many of you want to be evaluated and have your pay adjusted by some one who comes in and watches you work for a day or part of a day because there are a lot of teachers out there. Hope you don't have an off day or your out some of your pay. Maybe we should evaluate teachers on test scores. What about the teachers who don't teach math, science, history, or English. Last time I checked they don't test kids on industrial tech, FACS, art, band, or physical education.

I guess I have given more then my 2 cents and I apologize for rambling on but their are to many people think that teachers get paid to much with out knowing the whole story.

Very well said!! I couldn't agree more!! People have no problem commenting on a topic when they have no idea what their talking about or are to lazy to get all the facts. Remember what ASSUME means!!!!

 

[Skidooski]

yes he did, but had been allocated to a manager that made life miserable for those that took the time to do that. That manger was know for that issue, hence why he did not have people show up. It was all a catch 22. Under any other business, that person would be dismissed, but was protected under union contract.

My brother and I have been having these spirted discussions since the 70's. :0

I orginally wanted to be a federal arbitrator, but figured I would not make since I could not have a meaningful discussion with my own family.

I am head of Maintenance and Engineering where I work. Some of the Production Supervisors pressure the maintenance guys to sometimes, not often but sometimes, make machine adjustments with the machine turned off, but not locked out to save time (when powered down the heaters are off, takes about 15-20 minutes to heat back up). I am very strict that they lock out and if the Supervisor or Department Manager has a problem with that, I have told all my guys to have that person come and see me. I don't want to loose the extra production time either but safety is first.

Sorry to veer off topic...